How on earth can the Qur'an be considered the perfect book?

[outhouse]

Almighty God is spiritual, and our connection with Him is not straightforward.

Obviously

we are responsible for our own destiny.

That's right and mythology free is OK.

 

[serp777]

I know what the verse means, you don't want to believe me then that returns to you,
I don't have anything more to offer, good luck

You don't want to accept the well defined translations and just make up whatever you want? Sure, but ill go with the experts who translate arabic rather than you, some random dude on this forum. And yeah i know you don't have any more arguments to defend the faith except to say that you need to be able to speak Arabic to make an argument about the Quran and Islam. That's sure convenient. Then realistically only Muslims who study the Quran would be able to debate it. Very very convenient. Ridiculous.

 

[serp777]

Did i claim that i have all the answers?

You claim to have a lot of them. After all you're a Muslim so you claim to know the true religion. You claim to have answers to some of the most complex and unknowable answers in all of human history.

if you want to admit that you really don't have any special knowledge of God and his mind, then realistically it makes no sense for you to be a Muslim.

 

[serp777]

His throne isn't him, his universe isn't him, both have their own system for time.
If you don't get it, then i'm sorry, i can't help.

Its pure nonsense. It makes no sense why God would experience time. he's outside of space and time supposedly. And I never said the throne was him. Why does God need time? Also if the universe isn't him then God isn't infinite.

 

[serp777]

No .. it's not for me to do so .. I have nothing to prove, and neither does Almighty God .. He knows who is worthy of His guidance.

Hadith: "If Allah loves somebody, He causes them to comprehend relgion"

you're assuming that God is on your side and that the almighty God is your God.

And its laughable you cite that part of the hadith. Its literally just a rehash of the claims in the bible--God's love is what gives them faith and knowledge of the truth--to know Jesus Christ you must first love and accept him with all your heart.

I mean don't you see that there's a christian carbon copy of yourself? its so obvious.

 

[serp777]

Oh what a shame .. no matter what God says, you will always find something to prove that He's not such a clever scientist or linguist as yourself..

Needless to say, I don't agree with you .. I've seen this debate happen between atheists and Jews also .. if you want to think that it really shows that Scripture is proved wrong, then be my guest

..I do not intend to go into reams of arabic grammar or explaining verses/hadiths .. you think you know best .. fine

Oh and you think you know better the the people who translate the quran; the experts who spend their lives studying the language. Therefore someone who isn't versed in arabic can't talk about the Quran, and you can just make up any interpretation or translation you want. Your argument is so transparent and disgusting. "WELL YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH ME BECAUSE I KNOW ARABIC AND YOU DON'T" Nonsense.

 

[use_your_brain]

No it shows that many parts of the Quran existed in some form for centuries before Islam was formed. No God is required to repeat stories already known in the area for centuries.

You do mean the Prophet simply repeated the previous true stories, right?

 

[use_your_brain]

you're assuming that God is on your side and that the almighty God is your God.

And its laughable you cite that part of the hadith. Its literally just a rehash of the claims in the bible--God's love is what gives them faith and knowledge of the truth--to know Jesus Christ you must first love and accept him with all your heart.

I mean don't you see that there's a christian carbon copy of yourself? its so obvious.

how to accept and to love Jesus Christ with all our heart?

 

[FearGod]

You don't want to accept the well defined translations and just make up whatever you want? Sure, but ill go with the experts who translate arabic rather than you, some random dude on this forum. And yeah i know you don't have any more arguments to defend the faith except to say that you need to be able to speak Arabic to make an argument about the Quran and Islam. That's sure convenient. Then realistically only Muslims who study the Quran would be able to debate it. Very very convenient. Ridiculous.

Yes the quran is for Muslims and not for you, i don't know even why you
need to discuss it.

 

[FearGod]

You claim to have a lot of them. After all you're a Muslim so you claim to know the true religion. You claim to have answers to some of the most complex and unknowable answers in all of human history.

if you want to admit that you really don't have any special knowledge of God and his mind, then realistically it makes no sense for you to be a Muslim.

I'm a Muslim and i trust it's the right way of life to me, and no i don't have all the answers about God.

 

[FearGod]

Its pure nonsense. It makes no sense why God would experience time. he's outside of space and time supposedly. And I never said the throne was him. Why does God need time? Also if the universe isn't him then God isn't infinite.

God made space and time when there wasn't.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes the quran is for Muslims and not for you, i don't know even why you
need to discuss it.

Among other reasons, because it makes claims about our duties and destinies.

 

[FearGod]

Among other reasons, because it makes claims about our duties and destinies.

Not enough reason, i don't believe in Buddhism then why i have to debate those who believe in
him or to ask them to give me answers, they're free for what they want to believe and i don't need
to question and ask them to prove that their religion is the right one, why i need while i'm not
interested at first place.

 

[LuisDantas]

Not enough reason,

Surely you jest?

i don't believe in Buddhism then why i have to debate those who believe in
him or to ask them to give me answers, they're free for what they want to believe and i don't need
to question and ask them to prove that their religion is the right one, why i need while i'm not
interested at first place.

You may want to research the concept of "debate".

 

[morphesium]

paarsurrey said: ↑
The inner evidence of Quran the Recitation also speaks loudly that it is authored by G-d and none else

Please give evidence that Muhammad copied. Will you? Please
Regards

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_mythology

Islam incorporates many Biblical events and heroes into its own mythology. Stories about Musa (Moses)[1] and Ibrahim (Abraham)[2] form parts of Islam's scriptures

Paarsurrey has been reading Quran for a better part of this life and acts like he knows nothing of it to strengthen the words of Quran which he himself has typed elsewere.!!!!!

 

[FearGod]

Surely you jest?

You may want to research the concept of "debate".

Debate in things that i'm interesting in, i won't debate politics while i don't have any interest
about politics, or to discuss science while i don't care about science..etc

 

[LuisDantas]

Debate in things that i'm interesting in, i won't debate politics while i don't have any interest
about politics, or to discuss science while i don't care about science..etc

Then you have no business expecting others to accept your claims just because.

Either you care what others think about the Qur'an or you do not.

If you do care, then it is not your place to arrogantly (and foolishly) insist that others must "prove it is wrong".

 

[FearGod]

Then you have no business expecting others to accept your claims just because.

Either you care what others think about the Qur'an or you do not.

If you do care, then it is not your place to arrogantly (and foolishly) insist that others must "prove it is wrong".

A realistic debate needs knowledge, if you don't have a well organized knowledge in my religion
then how you'll debate, for example i understand the quran in its original language while some
others depend on translations, how to debate about which is the correct translation while the
other is ignorant about the language of the quran, he picks the translation which agree with
his own affairs and not for the purpose as to know the truth or to know the correct translation.

 

[LuisDantas]

That is a superb example of obfuscation. But not at all one that inspires credibility, much less respect.

Unfortunately, it is also typical, and shows how proper this thread is.

 

[morphesium]

Did you observe the fish evolving to human billions of years ago?

As you walk along and if you happened to see some cow dung lying in front of you (but you haven't seen any cow there), will it take huge reasoning power and intelligence (beyond the capability of a normal human) to judge that it came from a cow???? No. just rational thinking is enough for the job.

Give a jigsaw puzzle to a kid and he will solve it with his own reasoning.

Point mutations in the genes are happening all the time and this is observable.
Mutations if happens in the reproductive cell gets it carried to the offspring. one in a million mutation will give the organism an added advantage with respect to the other. Under the natural selection process, its population grows exponentially. Over time such mutations adds up. As the population of the herd goes beyond a certain limit, it usually breaks up and moves to some other place. If there is no inter mingling between the two groups, and since mutations are happening all the time, this will eventually lead to the formation of a different species.

Genetics is a huge branch of science with millions of people contributing to it and thinking about it. If they happened to find some error in it on the way, they (or others) will suggest how to rectify it and thousands will scrutinize it over time.

Genetically engineered medicines such as insulin, antibiotics etc are all proofs that our science is on the right path. It can predict the medical conditions (future) of a kid even before the kid is born. take preventive steps so the kid will have a healthier life. It can predict the ancestry of human history and the evolution of various organisms.

If you (or your loved ones) happened to have a disease and if you go to a doctor, he may be be prescribing medications that were produced by the blessings of modern genetic engineering.