How Russian news sells the war

[Stevicus]

It's interesting that the Deep State conspiracy theory is
proffered by both the left & the right in Ameristan. It really
became prominent when Trump alleged that the Deep
State was thwarting his agendas, & stole the election.
Yet Deep State fans cannot divulge any of the actors &
detailed plots that pull the strings of state from their
secret lair.

A better view is that politics combined with economics
is a very complex stochastic process. Some people are
predisposed to see the emergent properties as emanating
from a central control that hides itself from view. It's
analogous to seeing the hand of God instead of evolution,
which is another example of highly complex stochastic
processes.
This explains the corruption, incompetence, & evil we see.
And unlike the Deep State conspiracy, it also offers us a
solution, ie, if people want to, they can vote for better
leaders who differ from the same old same old.

I think we're talking about the same processes, but some might be focusing on different aspects.

Where I depart from most conspiracy theories is when they appear too mystical or appear to be "Not Of This World."

I look at it more as a matter of politics being a down-and-dirty fight in the gutter. It's always been that way, even going back to Ancient Rome. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Sometimes the bad guys win, and sometimes criminals get away with it. There's nothing mysterious or mystical about it. But I don't see it as all that far-fetched or tinfoil hat stuff. It's a constant within politics as it has been practiced throughout known human history.

As far as actually proving it in a court of law beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt - that may not be possible. That's another process to go through. After the lawyers get done making their motions and the court decides which evidence is admissible and which is not, then you're stuck with shaky conclusions like "Oswald was the lone assassin" and theories about magic bullets.

 

[Revoltingest]

That is the point.
Putin is waging war against globalism.
Because globalism will ultimately destroy European Civilization, and Putin wants to defend this civilization.
That is why many Italians and Europeans (both left and right, trust me) see him as a savior.

I do not want other powers to impose their agenda on Europe.

The idea of becoming as multicultural as the US terrifies many Europeans. It is a fact.

A few questions....
- What about multi-culturalism so frightens Europe & Russia?
- How does conquering & incorporating Ukraine advance
the fight against multi-culturalism?
- Do you approve of Putin's anti-LGBT &/or pro-Christianity
(Russian Orthodox) agendas?
- How far should Russia go in waging wars to to accomplish
these goals?

 

[Revoltingest]

I think we're talking about the same processes, but some might be focusing on different aspects.

Where I depart from most conspiracy theories is when they appear too mystical or appear to be "Not Of This World."

I look at it more as a matter of politics being a down-and-dirty fight in the gutter. It's always been that way, even going back to Ancient Rome. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Sometimes the bad guys win, and sometimes criminals get away with it. There's nothing mysterious or mystical about it. But I don't see it as all that far-fetched or tinfoil hat stuff. It's a constant within politics as it has been practiced throughout known human history.

As far as actually proving it in a court of law beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt - that may not be possible. That's another process to go through. After the lawyers get done making their motions and the court decides which evidence is admissible and which is not, then you're stuck with shaky conclusions like "Oswald was the lone assassin" and theories about magic bullets.

Do you believe that the Deep State thwarted Trump's
agendas, & then stole his election?
Or was it just the stochastic process of politics that
limited Trump's success & got him defeated in 2020?

 

[Estro Felino]

What about multi-culturalism so frightens Europe & Russia?

Thank you for your questions. They are very intelligent and insightful.
Ok...Europe is made up of microcosms, the European Nations which already are diverse. So we already have all the diversity we need.
Slavic, Romance, Germanic cultures.
But they are symptom of the same civilization that created Renaissance, French Enlightenment, Secularism, Human Rights.
We do not want other cultures to come and to destabilize all this.
Germans are proud of being German. Russians are proud of being Russian. I am proud of being Italian.
Because we see that in other continents human rights are not respected as well. Atheists and gays are executed in certain countries.

- How does conquering & incorporating Ukraine advance the fight against multi-culturalism?

Because Soros and the American Deep State he leads has colonized Ukraine in 2014. Maidan coup was his doing. The goal is to turn Ukraine into an anti-Russia stronghold, with anti-European values that trash the religion too. And to impose cultural relativism.

Do you approve ofPutin's anti-LGBT &/or pro-Christianity (Russian Orthodox) agendas?

Homophobia in Russia exists regardless of Putin.
In Russia there are laws that punish whoever harasses LGBT people.
Putin just wants that minors are not influenced by the LGBT culture. Because adolescence is such a delicate phase. Just that. So he is just against LGBT propaganda in schools.
I agree with him.

How far should Russia go in waging wars to to accomplish these goals?

I will say for the umpteenth time I am against any war.
But if the American Deep State really wants to destroy the European Civilization using Ukraine as a pawn...why should I blame Putin?

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you believe that the Deep State thwarted Trump's
agendas, & then stole his election?

I can tell you an anecdote.
Last year, January 2021 many parliamentarians of the Italian Democratic Party proposed for the first time in history the electronic vote...

So many people tweeted furiously to these politicians. Tweets like " You dems want the electronic vote to steal the elections, as they just did in the US".

After that, these Italian dems withdrew the proposal.

 

[Stevicus]

Do you believe that the Deep State thwarted Trump's
agendas, & then stole his election?
Or was it just the stochastic process of politics that
limited Trump's success & got him defeated in 2020?

The short answer is: I don't know. I don't have any personal, first-hand knowledge of any of the events in question. All I can say is, I'm glad that Trump is no longer in office. It doesn't mean I'm happy with Biden or that I have that much trust in the system of politics, but it is what it is.

I would also note that, in the way certain ideas have been expressed, particularly in relation to people expressing either extreme love or extreme hatred for Trump, I'm a bit skeptical and suspicious. They seem to believe that if one doesn't hate Trump or love Trump with every fiber of their being, they view them as some kind of "enemy."

This may be part of the same stochastic process, but it makes me think that people are becoming more and more like drones who can't think for themselves. I guess I've always realized this, but it just feels like it's getting worse.

 

[Revoltingest]

Thank you for your questions. They are very intelligent and insightful.
Ok...Europe is made up of microcosms, the European Nations which already are diverse. So we already have all the diversity we need.
Slavic, Romance, Germanic cultures.
But they are symptom of the same civilization that created Renaissance, French Enlightenment, Secularism, Human Rights.
We do not want other cultures to come and to destabilize all this.
Germans are proud of being German. Russians are proud of being Russian. I am proud of being Italian.
Because we see that in other continents human rights are not respected as well. Atheists and gays are executed in certain countries.

If it's about maintaining ethnic & racial purity,
how does the invasion of Ukraine achieve that?
Imposition of Russian law & culture in Ukraine?

Because Soros and the American Deep State he leads has colonized Ukraine in 2014. Maidan coup was his doing. The goal is to turn Ukraine into an anti-Russia stronghold, with anti-European values that trash the religion too. And to impose cultural relativism.

What in Ukrainian culture & government is evidence of this plot?

Homophobia in Russia exists regardless of Putin.
In Russia there are laws that punish whoever harasses LGBT people.
Putin just wants that minors are not influenced by the LGBT culture. Because adolescence is such a delicate phase. Just that. So he is just against LGBT propaganda in schools.
I agree with him.

Putin is in the vanguard of opposing homosexuality.
If this Wikipedia article is to be believed....
LGBT rights in Russia - Wikipedia
....Russia goes farther than the claim of only fighting
pro-LGBT "propaganda". It allows discrimination &
hate crimes against them.

Could it be that Putin opposes Ukraine's people
becoming more approving of LGBT people in
recent years (doubling to 56% from 2010 to 2017).
LGBT rights in Ukraine - Wikipedia
Invasion, war, & conquering seem a radical & evil
solution.

I will say for the umpteenth time I am against any war.
But if the American Deep State really wants to destroy the European Civilization using Ukraine as a lab...why should I blame Putin?

This Deep State conspiracy to destroy your civilization, &
use Ukraine as a "lab" is quite a surprise, & hard to respond
to. The best I can think of is....

 

[Revoltingest]

I can tell you an anecdote.
Last year, January 2021 many parliamentarians of the Italian Democratic Party proposed for the first time in history the electronic vote...

So many people tweeted furiously to these politicians. Tweets like " You dems want the electronic vote to steal the elections, as they just did in the US".

After that, these Italian dems withdrew the proposal.

That doesn't sound like our Deep State is controlling
your government. Instead, it seems that many Italians
believe the false claim that Trump won re-election.
You can't blame Ameristanian government for the
utterly bonkers pro-Trump views of some Italians.
That intellectual failure is on you guys.

 

[Revoltingest]

The short answer is: I don't know. I don't have any personal, first-hand knowledge of any of the events in question. All I can say is, I'm glad that Trump is no longer in office. It doesn't mean I'm happy with Biden or that I have that much trust in the system of politics, but it is what it is.

I don't think personal first-hand knowledge is necessary
to know that Trump lost. Moreover, it would be impossible
to have such personal knowledge in all polling places in
all states.
But I can claim knowledge that Trump lost because his
agents brought many suits making that claim, yet none
made their case in court. They all lacked evidence.
So with overwhelming numerous legal defeats, I will say
with confidence that Biden won, & Trump lost in 2020.

I would also note that, in the way certain ideas have been expressed, particularly in relation to people expressing either extreme love or extreme hatred for Trump, I'm a bit skeptical and suspicious. They seem to believe that if one doesn't hate Trump or love Trump with every fiber of their being, they view them as some kind of "enemy."

Then I should be your most trustworthy source.
I've no personal feelings for the man, either positive or negative.
Of course, I still judge the man & his various actions.

This may be part of the same stochastic process, but it makes me think that people are becoming more and more like drones who can't think for themselves. I guess I've always realized this, but it just feels like it's getting worse.

The Deep State conspiracy theory is the belief that most
treats the populace as drones without agency, ie, voting
makes no difference....the oligarchs will do as they please.
The stochastic view allows for individual action to have an
effect, albeit diluted by population size.

 

[Estro Felino]

That doesn't sound like our Deep State is controlling
your government. Instead, it seems that many Italians
believe the false claim that Trump won re-election.
You can't blame Ameristanian government for the
utterly bonkers pro-Trump views of some Italians.
That intellectual failure is on you guys.

I am not one of those who believe in that theory.

But I am still against electronic vote.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am not one of those who believe in that theory.

Good to hear.
I expected Trump to lose because his behavior
in office rankled too many who could've gone
either way. His run against Hillary was close.
She actually had more votes. So Trump's
alienating more voters portended a loss to
Biden, who wasn't as generally objectionable
as Hillary.

BTW, I'd have preferred Biden (with all his
terrible faults) to Trump. But expecting a Biden
win, I voted as I wanted, ie, Jo Jorgensen, the
Libertarian.
Why didn't Pubs & Dems vote for her?
Misogyny, of course!

 

[Estro Felino]

If it's about maintaining ethnic & racial purity, how does the invasion of Ukraine achieve that?

A premise. I think that they have normalized doublestandardism.
That is...being eurocentric is called racism.
Whereas an Asian who is sinocentric or something like that, is blessed and justified.
Double Standards. Normalized.

As I said, I believe Soros is one of the people who contributed to normalize this hatred towards my civilization. And since my own civilization is also Putin's civilization, his is a crusade against the Sorosian government in Kiev.

I will not side with this crusade, because the end does not justify the means.
And no Ukrainian should have never been sacrificed.

 

[Revoltingest]

A premise. I think that they have normalized doublestandardism.
That is...being eurocentric as I am, is called racism.
Whereas an Asian who is sinocentric or something like that, is blessed and justified.
Double Standards. Normalized.

As I said, I believe Soros is one of the people who contributed to normalize this hatred towards my civilization. And since my own civilization is also Putin's civilization, his is a crusade against the Sorosian government in Kiev.

I will not side with this crusade, because the end does not justify the means.

Your description of Europeans & Russians makes them seem
like white supremacists. I'm glad to live in this tumultuous
Ameristanian melting pot instead. Our problems seem easier.

People who see existential threats everywhere are dangerous.
I strongly advise seeing differences as not inherently threatening.

 

[Estro Felino]

Does every country have a Deep State, whose oligarchs
secretly control puppet leaders? If so, then we're doomed
to just helplessly watch it all happen.

All of G7.
Yes..we are doomed.
Unless the people rises up as the French did in 1789.

 

[Estro Felino]

Your description of Europeans & Russians makes them seem
like white supremacists. I'm glad to live in this tumultuous
Ameristanian melting pot instead. Our problems seem easier.

People who see existential threats everywhere are dangerous.
I strongly advise seeing differences as not inherently threatening.

Do you acknowledge such doublestandardism exists?

 

[Revoltingest]

All of G7.
Yes..we are doomed.
Unless the people rises up as the French did in 1789.

How do you know that the oligarchs in the Deep State
weren't behind that revolution? I say that they deposed
the royals to install a government that they run to this day.

The thing about conspiracy theories that there's no limit
to how deep they can run. It reminds me of plans within
plans...

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you acknowledge such doublestandardism exists?

I don't understand how you're applying the term.
But generally, I do see double standards here & there.

 

[Estro Felino]

How do you know that the oligarchs in the Deep State
weren't behind that revolution? I say that they deposed
the royals to install a government that they run to this day.

The thing about conspiracy theories that there's no limit
to how deep they can run. It reminds me of plans within
plans...

The average American is also conspiracy theorist towards Russia.
That is...he believes that Russia wants to conquer the world...

 

[Revoltingest]

The average American is also conspiracy theorist towards Russia.
That is...he believes that Russia wants to conquer the world...

Evidence?
What I hear here is that Putin is bent on expansion.
But this doesn't mean conquering the world. That
would not be possible, given the MAD relationship
with USA, & also with China as it strives for parity.

In this case, I claim greater authority in conspiracy
theories that my fellow Ameristanians believe.
There are indeed many, but that isn't one of them.

 

[Stevicus]

I don't think personal first-hand knowledge is necessary
to know that Trump lost. Moreover, it would be impossible
to have such personal knowledge in all polling places in
all states.
But I can claim knowledge that Trump lost because his
agents brought many suits making that claim, yet none
made their case in court. They all lacked evidence.
So with overwhelming numerous legal defeats, I will say
with confidence that Biden won, & Trump lost in 2020.

Yeah, I wondered about that too. At first, Sydney Powell was saying they had "mountains of evidence," but when it came time to present it in court, it was like "my dog ate my homework." I couldn't understand why they would say there's "mountains of evidence" and then not have it.

However, given that and the allegations surrounding the Jan. 6 incident, it could suggest a possible conspiracy to make people think that the election was rigged.

Then I should be your most trustworthy source.
I've no personal feelings for the man, either positive or negative.
Of course, I still judge the man & his various actions.

As do I, although I also realize that my knowledge of the man and his actions comes through various sources. I don't know him personally, but from what I can tell, I'd hate to work for the man. I'm sure he would fire me.

The Deep State conspiracy theory is the belief that most
treats the populace as drones without agency, ie, voting
makes no difference....the oligarchs will do as they please.
The stochastic view allows for individual action to have an
effect, albeit diluted by population size.

What I find with a lot of people, they simply don't care. They're not necessarily drones who have no agency, but they just have their own lives to lead and don't believe they have any power or control over the world they live in. Perhaps there are those who find comfort in the idea that "someone" (even if it's the deep state) is driving the train, as opposed to believing that everything is random and chaotic.