How should the Christian Church treat homosexuals?

[Fester]

Trolling is nothing to be proud of.

Half of the posts on this thread is from yourself - one liners.

Robotic and painfully repetitive one-liners.

Honestly, he's starting to bore me. He knows every default condascending fundie remark in the book, but he appears to be incapable of defending anything he says. I feel like I've been challenged to a foot race by a person with no legs.

 

[Fester]

no its not,,, but gay christian is....

Coming from the guy who says he never judges.

 

[Fester]

I don't quite understand your accusations against yourgraceisenough. I don't see any signs of hatred or anger in any of his posts or reference to an angry God. He has consistently pointed to God's love and forgiveness toward sinners.

He has never once mentioned God's love and forgiveness unless he's put on a spot to do so by other posters. Following people around and telling them what vile sinners they are seems to be that dog's only trick.

 

[Vasiel]

Sadly there's a line that fits the two types of hatred and homophobia:

"They either hate you to your face, or they hate you behind your back"

I personally consider the subtle hatred and homophobia to be worse. Look I know that Christians believe in "Sin". But here's how I look at it. The moment any Christian calls someone out on their sin they are saying "I'm better than you".

Why?

Because Christians believe they are saved through Christ, and therefore have their "get out of jail free card" sort of thing. So they place themselves on a level above the non-believer or the LGBTIQ person, or the "sinner".

People need to understand the psychology of what they say!

 

[Fester]

Unless you can give substantial evidence, then you are going only on what you "believe" and it won't stick as a form of "absolute truth" like you claim it to be. The simple reason why it won't stick, is because each individual has faith (or lack thereof) according to their own relative experiences.

Good to see you here, Vasiel. :clap

I may take issue with one or two points in your post, but I agree 100% with the direction you're taking here (summed up nicely in the paragraph quoted). Your faith and beliefs in....whatever, is about as personal as you can get. It seems like too many Christians are of the opinion that personal beliefs are one-size-fits-all, which is rubbish. Yet there are many who believe that, in spite of the fact that they are a member of a church (of which there are many), and a denomination (of which there are many), for whom beliefs are anything but one-size-fits-all.

My faith and my beliefs are exclusively mine. I am at peace with them, and I am at peace with God. I can tell you what I believe, and if you agree with them, fine. If you don't, fine. As God speaks to me, so He speaks to all who believe. IMO it would be pure arrogance to assume that you must all live your lives as I see fit to live mine.

You have your own path. If you believe, God will walk you through it. You don't need me, or anyone else, trying to be a backseat driver on your personal journey.

 

[Fester]

Sadly there's a line that fits the two types of hatred and homophobia:

"They either hate you to your face, or they hate you behind your back"

I personally consider the subtle hatred and homophobia to be worse. Look I know that Christians believe in "Sin". But here's how I look at it. The moment any Christian calls someone out on their sin they are saying "I'm better than you".

Why?

Because Christians believe they are saved through Christ, and therefore have their "get out of jail free card" sort of thing. So they place themselves on a level above the non-believer or the LGBTIQ person, or the "sinner".

People need to understand the psychology of what they say!

Exactly. Anyone who sins is a sinner, saved or not. It is a sinner judging other sinners for sinning, which goes directly against what Jesus taught us in scripture (Matthew 7).

 

[Vasiel]

Good to see you here, Vasiel. :clap

I may take issue with one or two points in your post, but I agree 100% with the direction you're taking here (summed up nicely in the paragraph quoted). Your faith and beliefs in....whatever, is about as personal as you can get. It seems like too many Christians are of the opinion that personal beliefs are one-size-fits-all, which is rubbish. Yet there are many who believe that, in spite of the fact that they are a member of a church (of which there are many), and a denomination (of which there are many), for whom beliefs are anything but one-size-fits-all.

My faith and my beliefs are exclusively mine. I am at peace with them, and I am at peace with God. I can tell you what I believe, and if you agree with them, fine. If you don't, fine. As God speaks to me, so He speaks to all who believe. IMO it would be pure arrogance to assume that you must all live your lives as I see fit to live mine.

You have your own path. If you believe, God will walk you through it. You don't need me, or anyone else, trying to be a backseat driver on your personal journey.

I agree with you. Too many people, of all different religions, seem to take the idea of "conversion" to mean they must also then steer that person's life. But if you believe it, God gave us free will, so that we could connect with Him (or Her, or It... depending one's faith) on a personal level.

Even if I do get fired up at times and often when it comes to religion I do get fired up. I always only every try and share my experiences and leave it up to those reading my posts to decide what is, or is not, useful for them.

Just because I have a certain belief in things, doesn't make me right. I believe we need to keep an open mind and respect each other's differences.

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Hence the reason I am not Christian. However that doesn't stop churches from trying to prevent us from having equality and civil rights. I wish to add here that any sinner can go to any other god also for a sense of completion.

I am yet, personally, to see substantial proof of Christ's existence outside of the Bible, let alone proof of his resurrection. I respect him as a teacher, who has changed the lives of many friends I have.

The proof I do have from numerous religions, is relative to my own personal experience. Whilst I can share my personal encounters I do not attempt to force my experiences upon anyone as absolute truth, because I know it's not.

Perhaps if you'd experienced a sense of equality and oneness in the fashion I have, you'd understand. But as I learned the other night, it's impossible to try and explain something that profound if the person you are explaining it to has no experience of it themselves.

really, I thought it was a given that Jesus existed as a historical figure...

 

[yourgraceisenough]

And you.

yes of course, I am no exception...

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Don't worry about it. You'll get there. If you try.

i'm there already but some people are to busy making excuses for their behaviour...

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Just like you and your unrepentant judgement of gays and anyone who would defend them. Boy, are you gonna get it.

ha ha ha does that mean all the disciples are "going to get it " for telling people God's standard...

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Been gambling, eh? Many Christians think that's a sin. There's no verse that actually says that, just like homosexuality, but there you go.

drawing lots was a common past time, was that gambling....

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Sadly there's a line that fits the two types of hatred and homophobia:

"They either hate you to your face, or they hate you behind your back"

I personally consider the subtle hatred and homophobia to be worse. Look I know that Christians believe in "Sin". But here's how I look at it. The moment any Christian calls someone out on their sin they are saying "I'm better than you".

Why?

Because Christians believe they are saved through Christ, and therefore have their "get out of jail free card" sort of thing. So they place themselves on a level above the non-believer or the LGBTIQ person, or the "sinner".

People need to understand the psychology of what they say!

ha ha ha homophobia, the do all spin word...

 

[Fester]

i'm there already but some people are to busy making excuses for their behaviour...

Yeah, that's your usual excuse.

Oops...

 

[yourgraceisenough]

He has never once mentioned God's love and forgiveness unless he's put on a spot to do so by other posters. Following people around and telling them what vile sinners they are seems to be that dog's only trick.

simply not true...

I have mentioned God's love and forgiveness for all sinners...

the fact some people think they can not repent yet be saved is clearly wrong...

 

[Fester]

drawing lots was a common past time, was that gambling....

So you don't think gambling is a sin? Because many Christians do, you know. I suppose they're all going to hell now, in your book.

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Exactly. Anyone who sins is a sinner, saved or not. It is a sinner judging other sinners for sinning, which goes directly against what Jesus taught us in scripture (Matthew 7).

so all the disciples and Jesus were sinners for proclaiming God's standard...

very interesting...

 

[yourgraceisenough]

Yeah, that's your usual excuse.

Oops...

I have repented of my sins and accepted Jesus....

 

[Fester]

simply not true...

I have mentioned God's love and forgiveness for all sinners...

the fact some people think they can not repent yet be saved is clearly wrong...

You only mentioned love and forgiveness when you were forced to. Otherwise everything is "repent you vile sinners" with you. You even dare question the faith of other Christians, because they don't live up to your standards.

 

[yourgraceisenough]

So you don't think gambling is a sin? Because many Christians do, you know. I suppose they're all going to hell now, in your book.

lol...the disciples drew lots to see who would take the place of Judas...

have you read the bible??

what denomination of Christianity do you follow??