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How should the Christian Church treat homosexuals?

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yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
Fester said:
You only mentioned love and forgiveness when you were forced to. Otherwise everything is "repent you vile sinners" with you. You even dare question the faith of other Christians, because they don't live up to your standards.
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you brood of vipers...now who said that....:)

I wonder if he was just being nasty...:)
 
Vasiel

Vasiel

The Seeker
yourgraceisenough said:
really, I thought it was a given that Jesus existed as a historical figure...:)
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Buddha was a historical figure also (They've managed to locate the place of his birth, death and enlightenment). The location of the Kurukshetra war, in the Bhagavad Gita is also a historical place. Even if Jesus was a historical figure, there is little, to no, evidence of his Resurrection. (Not to mention only sketchy fragments about him historically speaking).

Again I say... unless you can come up with evidence to prove that Christ was the Son of God, and did indeed resurrect, I am going to have little choice but to put him in the same category as Buddha, or Krishna, or Confucius or Mohammed. A Spiritual Teacher, but NOT the resurrected Son.
 
yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
Vasiel said:
Buddha was a historical figure also (They've managed to locate the place of his birth, death and enlightenment). The location of the Kurukshetra war, in the Bhagavad Gita is also a historical place. Even if Jesus was a historical figure, there is little, to no, evidence of his Resurrection. (Not to mention only sketchy fragments about him historically speaking).

Again I say... unless you can come up with evidence to prove that Christ was the Son of God, and did indeed resurrect, I am going to have little choice but to put him in the same category as Buddha, or Krishna, or Confucius or Mohammed. A Spiritual Teacher, but NOT the resurrected Son.
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and Jesus has been established as a historical figure, so your point is...:)
 
9Westy9

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
back to the point of 'how to treat homosexuals' I think Jesus has one or two things to say.

Matthew 26

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 5

7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

From these passages alone it seems obvious what Jesus taught on the matter
 
Vasiel

Vasiel

The Seeker
yourgraceisenough said:
and Jesus has been established as a historical figure, so your point is...:)
Click to expand...

Quite simply, how do you prove that even as a historical figure, his teachings are more "valid" and "real" than say Buddha's, Krishna's, Mohammed's, Lao Tzu's, Ptah Hotep or Confucius?

Just because he may have existed on earth as a historical figure does not make his version of "truth" any more right than yours or mine. Unless you have evidence to display otherwise, that doesn't rely solely on the Bible, or your own relative truth, then it's not "Absolutely True".

Faith comes back to individual experience. People gravitate towards different faiths because they give them a sense of purpose, of comfort and meaning. I'm not saying it's wrong to do so. I AM saying that forcing one's relative experience upon another as absolute truth, especially when it comes to matters of equality, then it is wrong.

I don't tell you that you can't go to church or worship your God. I do however disagree with the Churches continual attempts at preventing the happiness and fulfillment of people all over the world who often don't even share the same belief system.

Equality needs to come from a foundation of mutual respect and understanding, free of religious dogma. Neither America, nor Australia are specifically "Christian" Nations. We are multi-cultural societies with multiple religious views.

No religion should have precedence to dictate over the lives of others through the law. This is what I believe. A separation of church and state. If non-Christians can get married within the boundaries of the law, even if that means not having a "religious" ceremony, then Same Sex couples should legally be able to also.
 
Fester

Fester

Active Member
9Westy9 said:
back to the point of 'how to treat homosexuals' I think Jesus has one or two things to say.

Matthew 26

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 5

7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

From these passages alone it seems obvious what Jesus taught on the matter
Click to expand...

He also said "for what you have done for the least of these, you have done for me". That's another one.
 
yourgraceisenough

yourgraceisenough

Active Member
Vasiel said:
Quite simply, how do you prove that even as a historical figure, his teachings are more "valid" and "real" than say Buddha's, Krishna's, Mohammed's, Lao Tzu's, Ptah Hotep or Confucius?

Just because he may have existed on earth as a historical figure does not make his version of "truth" any more right than yours or mine. Unless you have evidence to display otherwise, that doesn't rely solely on the Bible, or your own relative truth, then it's not "Absolutely True".

Faith comes back to individual experience. People gravitate towards different faiths because they give them a sense of purpose, of comfort and meaning. I'm not saying it's wrong to do so. I AM saying that forcing one's relative experience upon another as absolute truth, especially when it comes to matters of equality, then it is wrong.

I don't tell you that you can't go to church or worship your God. I do however disagree with the Churches continual attempts at preventing the happiness and fulfillment of people all over the world who often don't even share the same belief system.

Equality needs to come from a foundation of mutual respect and understanding, free of religious dogma. Neither America, nor Australia are specifically "Christian" Nations. We are multi-cultural societies with multiple religious views.

No religion should have precedence to dictate over the lives of others through the law. This is what I believe. A separation of church and state. If non-Christians can get married within the boundaries of the law, even if that means not having a "religious" ceremony, then Same Sex couples should legally be able to also.
Click to expand...

how can you say your views are more correct and acceptable....:)
 
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