Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of Apes

[Skwim]

That is a list of cults and religions.

It should be noted that christianity is included in that list as well.

That being said the world cult is a loaded term. Generally used to denote any group that differs from mainstream beliefs.

At one point i bet your particular denomination would have fit that description.

I would bet that it still does.

 

[Sapiens]

That is a list of cults and religions.

It should be noted that christianity is included in that list as well.

That being said the world cult is a loaded term. Generally used to denote any group that differs from mainstream beliefs.

At one point i bet your particular denomination would have fit that description.

That's why it is better to have a numeration rather than a denomination ... never mind!

 

[Riverwolf]

When? I haven't seen it. Please post it again.

Here, with your arguments, slightly edited for better clarity (I hope):

Scientifically, there is NOTHING to measure, since intelligence is invisible.

Just because something is invisible doesn't mean it can't be measured. We measure invisible things all the time, by the effect they have on visible things. All light except for visible light is invisible, for example, because our eyes cannot detect them. (Infrared light, ultraviolet light, x-ray light, etc.) But we can still study their effects, and even translate them to visible light so we can "see" them.

In this case, intelligence can be measured by several mental abilities. The ability to recognize and manipulate patterns, the ability to retain and recall knowledge accurately, the ability to learn from mistakes and not repeat them, the ability to recognize and be aware of one's self distinct from the rest of the world, the ability to plan for potential problems in the future that may not be present here, etc.

Applying the adverb "scientifically" to your claim is not an accurate use of the term at all, since it's not based on any scientific exploration of your own, or research into scientific findings.

Historically, the following shows that Humans first appeared on this Planet some 10k years ago. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

That map does not indicate that. Nor is that history. It's just a map.

Those settlements near Mt. Ararat are not defined, and so from this map alone we cannot double-check how old those settlements might be. However, I have already demonstrated that the archaeological consensus is that Jericho, which is quite some distance away from the mountain, is the oldest still-inhabited city in the world. Hardly compelling.

Furthermore, if you actually read the text below the map, the oldest named archaeological sites, collectively named as Kermanshah Culture and identified here as squares(dating back to ~7500 BCE or ~9500 BP [before present]), are far closer to the Persian Gulf than they are to Mt. Ararat. The small-circle sites are listed only as "other settlements before 4500 BCE". That means there is a range of 3500 years between your claimed date of ~8000 BCE for the founding of those sites near the mountain, and the youngest they can be.

And for reference, ~3500 years is about what separates us from the final builds of Stonehenge.

Therefore, there's no reason to take this map as any evidence whatsoever of your claims.

Scripturally, it is shown that Humans were made BILLIONS of years before ANY other living creature, including Apes. Gen 2:4-7

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

There's nothing in these verses that indicates any of what you're saying. Not a single word here states that Adam is billions of years older than any other animal; this account just happens to have him born first. Not unusual in the cosmos, but also contradicting the account given in Genesis 1 where men and women were made last of all.

Furthermore, this contradicts the scientific consensus on how the history of life happened. Rain was falling on the Earth for millions and millions of years before any life showed up, and then it was only single-celled and marine. Plus, the Earth that was receiving the first rains... I kinda doubt it had what we would think of as a "ground".

Therefore, there is a massive disagreement between the scientific consensus and the contents of Genesis.

Therefore, Scientifically, Historically, and Scripturally,

If those are your only three arguments, they've now been refuted. They're not even remotely enough, in any case, to draw any sort of conclusion.

 

[Riverwolf]

Would you want evil to enter Heaven?

Believe it or not, yes I would.

Because without evil, good has no worth.

There is no sight without light, yes. But nothing but light is blinding. There needs to be a harmonious dance between light and shadow in order to have sight.

 

[Ouroboros]

That's why it is better to have a numeration rather than a denomination ... never mind!

I think it's rational. Numeration is better than denomination, but only by a fraction.

 

[Sapiens]

... and maybe, like religion (to get back on topic) it is all imaginary?

 

[Thief]

... and maybe, like religion (to get back on topic) it is all imaginary?

I don't believe ALL religion is imaginary.

I don't have a religion per se.....but I believe in God.

As for the dogmatic practice....I suspect the desire to believe can influence the stories told as the generations come and go.

 

[Sapiens]

"imaginary" as in the square root of -2

 

[Thief]

"imaginary" as in the square root of -2

No equation...no matter how brief and elegant ...can be used to affirm or deny theology.

 

[Sapiens]

Sorry, you're missing the earlier conversation.

 

[Thief]

Sorry, you're missing the earlier conversation.

Not need for the rehash......

 

[McBell]

Dear Riverwolf, False, since when you find the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science, and History, you have come as close as Humanly possible to God's Truth. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

I do not know which is more comical, that you think you have found your claimed "agreement" or the fact you have not demonstrated said claimed "agreement" even exists.

 

[McBell]

Dear Richard, False, since it's God's way to insure that ONLY those with Faith in Him can understand His Holy Word. IF He let just anyone understand, Godless heathens would be able to enter and destroy His perfect Heaven. The ONLY prayer He hears from a sinner is one which seeks to have enough Faith to believe in Him.

Most unbelievers THINK that God wants everyone to believe, but God KNOWS that evil is in the world. Would you want evil to enter Heaven? God shows His love for His children by assuring that only the good live Eternally. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

It is still nothing but a merry-go-round...

 

[Aman777]

Well, god created evil. So I don't think he has any right to be picky about who he lets in and who he doesn't. Given that he created everything, he can't wash his hands from the responsiblity for literally EVERYTHING.
Of course, if he exists, there isn't much I can do to force him to take that responsibility, given that he is the more powerfull of us two.
But might doesn't make right.

But ok.
So, I can't understand the REAL meaning of the bible. Fine.
Then I will just take it at face-value and will judge it on the things it actually DOES say, instead of the things that the "true believers" are allowed to read between the lines.

Dear Richard, God created EVERYthing...BUT....He is STILL creating eternal beings at the end of the present 6th Day. WHEN He is finished, His creation will be brought to pefection because that is the ONLY way God's work can truly be finished.

Since God created everything, evil was the result of His creation of mankind APART from Himself, and ANYTHING apart from God is NOT perfect, because ONLY God is good or perfect. Luk 18:19 God subjected His creation to evil TEMPORARILY until His work is finished at the end of the present 6th Day:

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope,

He did this in order to give Humankind a FREE CHOICE to believe in Him or NOT. Otherwise, Humans would be nothing more than Robots. In the end, ONLY those who freely choose Him, will be with Him in Heaven. So make your choice of Eternal Life or Eternal Death, (separation from God) but don't blame God for your own decision.

Atheists, agnostics, and all other unbelievers have already made their choice for eternal Death, and the only way this can be changed is for the wicked to REPENT (change their mind), and turn to Him. His name is Jesus. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

I would bet that it still does.

Dear Skwim, Of course it does since the list is a Jehovah Witness list. I posted it to show that JWs exclude EVERYone from Heaven, except those of their own religion. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[idav]

Atheists, agnostics, and all other unbelievers have already made their choice for eternal Death, and the only way this can be changed is for the wicked to REPENT (change their mind), and turn to Him. His name is Jesus. God Bless you.

All hinging on getting the right guesses, with no knowledge, on some celestial quiz. That is insane. What does god care what people think they know?

 

[RichardParker]

Dear Richard, God created EVERYthing...BUT....He is STILL creating eternal beings at the end of the present 6th Day. WHEN He is finished, His creation will be brought to pefection because that is the ONLY way God's work can truly be finished.

Ok, so you agree that god created everything, including evil, which is part of his plan, right?
Ok. So, my original argument still stands. He is ultimatelly responsible for everything evil in the world.

Since God created everything, evil was the result of His creation of mankind APART from Himself, and ANYTHING apart from God is NOT perfect, because ONLY God is good or perfect.

So according to you, god created something that isn't perfect.
You know what this means?
God himself isn't perfect. Because a perfect being would only create perfect things. That's pretty much a requirment for being perfect.
Saying that gods creation isn't perfect also takes away from his claimed perfection.

He did this in order to give Humankind a FREE CHOICE to believe in Him or NOT.

Believes aren't choices.
Also, nothing can be free, in the set-up you've presented, because god created everyhing. Therefore whatever it is that makes my choices, however the mechanism for my choices works (no matter if natural or supranatural), it all comes eventually back to god having created it. The god you seem to propose negates any possibility of free will.

Otherwise, Humans would be nothing more than Robots.

If your god created everything we the pre-knowledge of what's going to happen, then that's EXACTLY what he has done.

So make your choice of Eternal Life or Eternal Death, (separation from God) but don't blame God for your own decision.

I don't choose what I believe. Believe isn't a choice.
Therefore, if my salvation is bound to believe, it's not part of my choices.
And if your god created the world with knowledge about the future, he has already desided, if I would believe in him or not. Making it his responsiblity.

Atheists, agnostics, and all other unbelievers have already made their choice for eternal Death...

No, I haven't. This choice has never been presented to me, so I've never chosen any such thing.

 

[Aman777]

Here, with your arguments, slightly edited for better clarity (I hope):

Just because something is invisible doesn't mean it can't be measured. We measure invisible things all the time, by the effect they have on visible things. All light except for visible light is invisible, for example, because our eyes cannot detect them. (Infrared light, ultraviolet light, x-ray light, etc.) But we can still study their effects, and even translate them to visible light so we can "see" them.

In this case, intelligence can be measured by several mental abilities. The ability to recognize and manipulate patterns, the ability to retain and recall knowledge accurately, the ability to learn from mistakes and not repeat them, the ability to recognize and be aware of one's self distinct from the rest of the world, the ability to plan for potential problems in the future that may not be present here, etc.

Applying the adverb "scientifically" to your claim is not an accurate use of the term at all, since it's not based on any scientific exploration of your own, or research into scientific findings.

Dear Riverwolf, Sorry, but there is a difference between Human and animal intelligence, according to SCIENCE. It's called the Encephalization quotient and NO animal comes close to Human intelligence. Human EQ is some 7.44 while Chimps are 2.48 and Elephants are only 1.87. Your view is refuted Scientifically.

That map does not indicate that. Nor is that history. It's just a map.

Those settlements near Mt. Ararat are not defined, and so from this map alone we cannot double-check how old those settlements might be. However, I have already demonstrated that the archaeological consensus is that Jericho, which is quite some distance away from the mountain, is the oldest still-inhabited city in the world. Hardly compelling.

The Map shows the FIRST Human farming on our Planet. Jericho is shown as one of the latest cities built, and not the first. The reason for this is the inability of today's science to be able to tell the difference between animal and Human habitation at an Oasis. Your idea is refuted Historically.

Furthermore, if you actually read the text below the map, the oldest named archaeological sites, collectively named as Kermanshah Culture and identified here as squares(dating back to ~7500 BCE or ~9500 BP [before present]), are far closer to the Persian Gulf than they are to Mt. Ararat. The small-circle sites are listed only as "other settlements before 4500 BCE". That means there is a range of 3500 years between your claimed date of ~8000 BCE for the founding of those sites near the mountain, and the youngest they can be.

And for reference, ~3500 years is about what separates us from the final builds of Stonehenge.

Therefore, there's no reason to take this map as any evidence whatsoever of your claims.

Then show YOUR map which details that farming began EARLIER than God tells us it did in an area of the world which is NOT in the Fertile crescent. Until you do, your idea is refuted, Historically, again.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Notice the Day Scripture is speaking of. It was on the SAME Day the first Earth was made Gen 1:9-10 but BEFORE the plants grew. The plants herbs and trees GREW on the THIRD Day according to Gen 1:12. Notice also that other HeavenS (plural) were made on the SAME Day. The first Heaven, the world of Adam, was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 The other HeavenS include our cosmos and the THIRD Heaven of ll Corinthians 12:2. Your view is refuted Scripturally, since Adam was made the THIRD Day, as I posted.

There's nothing in these verses that indicates any of what you're saying. Not a single word here states that Adam is billions of years older than any other animal; this account just happens to have him born first. Not unusual in the cosmos, but also contradicting the account given in Genesis 1 where men and women were made last of all.

Scripture shows that Adam was made the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-7
Eve was NOT made until the 6th Day. Gen 2:22

BOTH Adam and Eve were BOTH "created" in God's Image or born again Spiritually on the present 6th Day. Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2 Again, you are refuted Scripturally.

Since Adam was made the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our cosmos, which was some 13.7 Billion years ago, in man's time, he lived for Billions of years BEFORE Eve was made from his rib.

Furthermore, this contradicts the scientific consensus on how the history of life happened. Rain was falling on the Earth for millions and millions of years before any life showed up, and then it was only single-celled and marine. Plus, the Earth that was receiving the first rains... I kinda doubt it had what we would think of as a "ground".

You are confusing Adam's world, which was totally destroyed in the Flood, with the present Cosmos, which was NOT made until the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 Try again?

Therefore, there is a massive disagreement between the scientific consensus and the contents of Genesis.

If those are your only three arguments, they've now been refuted. They're not even remotely enough, in any case, to draw any sort of conclusion.

I have refuted your view Scripturally, Scientifically, and Historically. Try again.

In Love,
Aman

 

[idav]

I have refuted your view Scripturally, Scientifically, and Historically. Try again.

Oh man that's good stuff.:biglaugh:

 

[Aman777]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aman777
Atheists, agnostics, and all other unbelievers have already made their choice for eternal Death...

No, I haven't. This choice has never been presented to me, so I've never chosen any such thing.

Dear Richard, Then take your choice, now. Do you believe that Jesus died for your sins, was buried, but rose from the dead the third day, according to the Scriptures? Those who believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ are born again Spiritually, while those who do NOT believe His Gospel are lost. It's YOUR free choice. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman