Humans did NOT evolve from the common ancestor of Apes

[outhouse]

Its just another ticked of member of landover Baptist who fell hook line and sinker, so they come here to play games.

Your only feeding it, if you use logic or reason.

 

[Riverwolf]

... and maybe, like religion (to get back on topic) it is all imaginary?

Pretty sure rituals aren't figments of my imagination.

 

[Aman777]

Its just another ticked of member of landover Baptist who fell hook line and sinker, so they come here to play games.

Your only feeding it, if you use logic or reason.

Dear Readers, Ignore the rants of the above poster since he has been sounding the alarm that the "Troll is here" for months now. It's all he's got since he cannot refute me in any way. I've tried and tried to make a buddy out of him, but he seems to know that he will finally be correct IF he lives long enough for me to leave this Earth. Then, he can CLAIM that he ran me off. Someone should applaud his perseverance. Hip Hip Horray for outhouse. God Bless all of you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

What are you going on about?
Are you ever going to directly address a point?

Or are you so caught up in your preaching, you cannot be bothered?

Dear Mestemia, Follow closely. You asked:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mestemia
So going by gods example we are to hide away from the whole world threatening to send those who do not believe in us to an eternity of suffering?

I answered that God LOVES us and is WARNING us of our sure end, without Him. I'm sorry if that is too hard for you to understand. God is NOT threatening anything. He is WARNING us of what will actually happen. He isn't hiding either since God is Love and Love is everywhere, in everything. I'm sorry if that is too hard for you to understand. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Riverwolf]

Sorry, but there is a difference between Human and animal intelligence, according to SCIENCE. It's called the Encephalization quotient and NO animal comes close to Human intelligence. Human EQ is some 7.44 while Chimps are 2.48 and Elephants are only 1.87. Your view is refuted Scientifically.

You have not refuted my argument for three reasons.

First: you don't understand how the sciences work. Can you even name the branch of science that deals in this matter without looking it up? What you've stated is based on current research into a very young field that hasn't had a lot of time for refinement. The current scientific consensuses should be taken with a grain of salt, as the IQ measure is. It is subject to change given further research and new information. Science isn't the containing of knowledge, it's the search for knowledge.

Second: you're responding to a claim I never made. I do not recall saying that the aforementioned animals had intelligence exactly the same as humans (and if I did, then I was wrong in saying so). After all, their intelligence isn't comparable to each other. Your claim, however, that we can't measure intelligence because it's "invisible" was refuted. That was your initial "scientific claim", and was refuted.

Third: a simple scale like that is simply insufficient to measure intelligence. Part of the problem is that intelligence isn't terribly well-defined, yet. It is known, however, that it's not a single thing, but represents multiple cognitive abilities. Elephants, according to you, have a lower EQ than Chimps, and yet Chimps can't really produce artwork while Elephants can. Other Primates are perfectly capable of language, even if limited to sign language.

The Map shows the FIRST Human farming on our Planet. Jericho is shown as one of the latest cities built, and not the first. The reason for this is the inability of today's science to be able to tell the difference between animal and Human habitation at an Oasis. Your idea is refuted Historically.

There is no refutation, because you have not provided any support whatsoever for this new claim that "science" (do you even know which branch is relevant?) "can't tell the difference between human and animal habitation." Furthermore, because agriculture developed independently in other parts of the world by people who had no access whatsoever to people in the Fertile Crescent, means that the fact that it's the "first" is completely irrelevant.

Besides, the oldest confirmed settlements in that map, as I stated, are closer to the Persian Gulf than they are to Mt. Ararat. Quite a distance, with plenty of other mountains in the region. There is no indication that Mt. Ararat has any significance to the development of agriculture in this region.

In any case, the older flood account in Gilgamesh has the boat landing on a mountain called Nimush. While there's no mountain in the region that retains this name, it's far more likely to be local to Mesopotamia, which is modern day Iraq.

Then show YOUR map which details that farming began EARLIER than God tells us it did in an area of the world which is NOT in the Fertile crescent. Until you do, your idea is refuted, Historically, again.

No, it has not been refuted, because I'm not claiming that. Archaeology has found that agriculture did develop in the Fertile Crescent a bit before anywhere else.

That fact is, however, no indication whatsoever of your claim, for the above reasons.

Notice the Day Scripture is speaking of.

No "Day" is spoken of in this passage.

It was on the SAME Day the first Earth was made Gen 1:9-10 but BEFORE the plants grew. The plants herbs and trees GREW on the THIRD Day according to Gen 1:12. Notice also that other HeavenS (plural)

That it's "pluralized" is no indication of your claim. That's just vernacular.

were made on the SAME Day. The first Heaven, the world of Adam, was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 The other HeavenS include our cosmos and the THIRD Heaven of ll Corinthians 12:2. Your view is refuted Scripturally, since Adam was made the THIRD Day, as I posted.

That's your own reading of the passage, which I've been given no reason to take seriously. Genesis 1 plus the first 3 1/2 verses of 2, and the rest of 2 plus 3, are completely separate accounts that likely have different sets of authors, according to the documentary hypothesis, which I consider the most likely explanation.

Scripture shows that Adam was made the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4-7
Eve was NOT made until the 6th Day. Gen 2:22

BOTH Adam and Eve were BOTH "created" in God's Image or born again Spiritually on the present 6th Day. Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2 Again, you are refuted Scripturally.

The only passage where "days" are brought up is Chapter 1. There is no reason why they should be considered in any other passage.

Since Adam was made the SAME Day as the Big Bang of our cosmos, which was some 13.7 Billion years ago, in man's time, he lived for Billions of years BEFORE Eve was made from his rib.

No, that doesn't even make sense. If that's the case, then the Big Bang would have happened after light (which Genesis 1 states was the first thing made after "the Heavens and the Earth.") Unlike most things in this case, we can be almost positively certain that this is impossible.

You claimed earlier that this "first light" was the light of Jesus, but that's impossible. If it was there, we'd see it. We don't; the earliest light we can detect is from several million years after the Big Bang.

You are confusing Adam's world, which was totally destroyed in the Flood, with the present Cosmos, which was NOT made until the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4

No indication whatsoever for this claim is in Genesis. There is every indication that there is only one world spoken of in Genesis: that of the authors.

I have refuted your view Scripturally, Scientifically, and Historically.

You have not.

 

[Riverwolf]

If you feed the POE, the POE survives.

Stop feeding it, it will go away

Nah. The "debate" has actually forced me to do quick research to confirm what I'm arguing.

 

[Aman777]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aman777
Sorry, but there is a difference between Human and animal intelligence, according to SCIENCE. It's called the Encephalization quotient and NO animal comes close to Human intelligence. Human EQ is some 7.44 while Chimps are 2.48 and Elephants are only 1.87. Your view is refuted Scientifically.

You have not refuted my argument for three reasons.

Dear Riverwolf, Since I've already read this post, I will refute ALL of your "reasons" in this post.

First: you don't understand how the sciences work. Can you even name the branch of science that deals in this matter without looking it up? What you've stated is based on current research into a very young field that hasn't had a lot of time for refinement. The current scientific consensuses should be taken with a grain of salt, as the IQ measure is. It is subject to change given further research and new information. Science isn't the containing of knowledge, it's the search for knowledge.

False, since God told us the scientific Truth of things we are just now discovering, more than 3k years ago. Are you trying to excuse the reason WHY today's scientists have taken so long to learn to read and comprehend what was actually written thousands of years ago?

The problem is the False premise that today's Science has adopted, by REJECTING what is actually written in Genesis chapter one. IF they would actually read it and seek to see the True Scientific Facts which NO man could have possibly known at that time in world history. It's PROOF of God. Your idea that we are still discovering things which God told us in Genesis, reveals the backward thinking of today's Godless scientists, who are currently teaching our children that God is MYTH, and education is PROFIT for the greediest among us.

Second: you're responding to a claim I never made. I do not recall saying that the aforementioned animals had intelligence exactly the same as humans (and if I did, then I was wrong in saying so). After all, their intelligence isn't comparable to each other. Your claim, however, that we can't measure intelligence because it's "invisible" was refuted. That was your initial "scientific claim", and was refuted.

Backpeddling, I see. IF mindless Nature produced Human intelligence in Apes, then WHY has it never repeated it's Magical Act? I'll tell you WHY and it's not for the silly reasons given by the worshippers of the supposed knowledge of this world. It's because Mindless Nature is Neutral, a concept, and has NO affect on the minds of men to make them smarter or dumber. Humans are those beings who have INHERITED the superior intelligence which ONLY God and Adam have. Gen 3:22

Third: a simple scale like that is simply insufficient to measure intelligence. Part of the problem is that intelligence isn't terribly well-defined, yet. It is known, however, that it's not a single thing, but represents multiple cognitive abilities. Elephants, according to you, have a lower EQ than Chimps, and yet Chimps can't really produce artwork while Elephants can. Other Primates are perfectly capable of language, even if limited to sign language.

False, since animals can only mimic what they have been taught by Humans. Notice that NO animal posts. ONLY Humans post because animals are too dumb to post or think or to go beyond His (Jesus) kinds, which are limited to their common ancestors pre-designed intellectual abilities. Humans produce other Humans and animals produce other animals. The FACT that today's Science remains ignorant of this basic fact exposes their illteracy of Genesis.

Quote:
The Map shows the FIRST Human farming on our Planet. Jericho is shown as one of the latest cities built, and not the first. The reason for this is the inability of today's science to be able to tell the difference between animal and Human habitation at an Oasis. Your idea is refuted Historically.

There is no refutation, because you have not provided any support whatsoever for this new claim that "science" (do you even know which branch is relevant?) "can't tell the difference between human and animal habitation." Furthermore, because agriculture developed independently in other parts of the world by people who had no access whatsoever to people in the Fertile Crescent, means that the fact that it's the "first" is completely irrelevant.

Again your Scriptural knowledge would help you IF you could explain why THOUSANDS of years BEFORE Science, that Scripture shows us HOW Noah's descendants were scattered over the face of the Earth from Babel. Gen 11:8

Only God, at that time, could have spread agriculture to the whole world, and send Noah's descendants (Humans) to re-populate an Earth of prehistoric people who were NOT Humans, but had evolved from the common ancestor of Apes. It's PROOF of God, since there was NO tranportation available, to spread agriiculture to prehistoric mankind 10 years ago. Thanks for reminding me of another proof of God.

Besides, the oldest confirmed settlements in that map, as I stated, are closer to the Persian Gulf than they are to Mt. Ararat. Quite a distance, with plenty of other mountains in the region. There is no indication that Mt. Ararat has any significance to the development of agriculture in this region.

It didn't. There are two Mt. Ararats in the mountains of Ararat, and valleys and the Biggest Lake in Turkey, which would make a perfect spot to dock a 450 foot Long covered Ark, which brought Noah to our world from the world which was dissolved in the Flood, and sank in the 1500 foot depths of Lake Van, Turkey. Look for the BIg Lake, 75 miles wide, between the Mt Ararat and the CENTER of the Fertile Crescent in the mountains of Ararat. Noah walked out of the mountains and planted some grapes and got drunk. Gen 9:21

In any case, the older flood account in Gilgamesh has the boat landing on a mountain called Nimush. While there's no mountain in the region that retains this name, it's far more likely to be local to Mesopotamia, which is modern day Iraq.

Gilgamesh could NOT have been written before Noah arrived because there were NO Humans (descendants of Adam) on this Planet to write it. It' proof that Gilgamesh is nothing more than the twisted storytelling of early mankind. They just repeated an old story they were told in their youth. Noah arrived some 10k years ago and Gilgamesh was written some two thousand years later.

Quote:
Then show YOUR map which details that farming began EARLIER than God tells us it did in an area of the world which is NOT in the Fertile crescent. Until you do, your idea is refuted, Historically, again.

No, it has not been refuted, because I'm not claiming that. Archaeology has found that agriculture did develop in the Fertile Crescent a bit before anywhere else.

That fact is, however, no indication whatsoever of your claim, for the above reasons.

In your humble unsupported opinion, I might add. That, and $1 will get you a cup of coffee at some fast food places. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Sapiens]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aman777
Sorry, but there is a difference between Human and animal intelligence, according to SCIENCE. It's called the Encephalization quotient and NO animal comes close to Human intelligence. Human EQ is some 7.44 while Chimps are 2.48 and Elephants are only 1.87. Your view is refuted Scientifically.

Actually no, the connection between "intelligence and encephalization is an hypothesis not a theory.

Quote:
False, since God told us the scientific Truth of things we are just now discovering, more than 3k years ago. Are you trying to excuse the reason WHY today's scientists have taken so long to learn to read and comprehend what was actually written thousands of years ago?

Unsupported claim.

The problem is the False premise that today's Science has adopted, by REJECTING what is actually written in Genesis chapter one.

Unsupported claim.

IF they would actually read it and seek to see the True Scientific Facts which NO man could have possibly known at that time in world history.

Unsupported claim.

It's PROOF of God.

Unsupported claim.

Your idea that we are still discovering things which God told us in Genesis, reveals the backward thinking of today's Godless scientists, who are currently teaching our children that God is MYTH, and education is PROFIT for the greediest among us.

Unsupported claim.

Backpeddling, I see. IF mindless Nature produced Human intelligence in Apes, then WHY has it never repeated it's Magical Act? I'll tell you WHY and it's not for the silly reasons given by the worshippers of the supposed knowledge of this world. It's because Mindless Nature is Neutral, a concept, and has NO affect on the minds of men to make them smarter or dumber. Humans are those beings who have INHERITED the superior intelligence which ONLY God and Adam have. Gen 3:22

Unsupported claim.

False, since animals can only mimic what they have been taught by Humans.

Unsupported claim.

Notice that NO animal posts. ONLY Humans post because animals are too dumb to post or think or to go beyond His (Jesus) kinds, which are limited to their common ancestors pre-designed intellectual abilities. Humans produce other Humans and animals produce other animals.

Unsupported claim.

The FACT that today's Science remains ignorant of this basic fact exposes their illteracy of Genesis.

Unsupported claim.

Quote:
The Map shows the FIRST Human farming on our Planet. Jericho is shown as one of the latest cities built, and not the first. The reason for this is the inability of today's science to be able to tell the difference between animal and Human habitation at an Oasis. Your idea is refuted Historically.

Unsupported claim.

Again your Scriptural knowledge would help you

Unsupported claim.

IF you could explain why THOUSANDS of years BEFORE Science, that Scripture shows us HOW Noah's descendants were scattered over the face of the Earth from Babel. Gen 11:8

Unsupported claim.

Only God, at that time, could have spread agriculture to the whole world,

Unsupported claim.

and send Noah's descendants (Humans) to re-populate an Earth

Unsupported claim.

of prehistoric people who were NOT Humans, but had evolved from the common ancestor of Apes.

Unsupported claim.

It's PROOF of God,

Unsupported claim.

since there was NO tranportation available,

Unsupported claim.

to spread agriiculture to prehistoric mankind 10 years ago.

ridiculous claim.

It didn't. There are two Mt. Ararats in the mountains of Ararat, and valleys and the Biggest Lake in Turkey, which would make a perfect spot to dock a 450 foot Long covered Ark,

Unsupported claim.

which brought Noah to our world

Unsupported claim.

from the world which was dissolved in the Flood,

Unsupported claim.

and sank in the 1500 foot depths of Lake Van, Turkey.

Unsupported claim.

Look for the BIg Lake, 75 miles wide, between the Mt Ararat and the CENTER of the Fertile Crescent in the mountains of Ararat. Noah walked out of the mountains and planted some grapes

Unsupported claim.

and got drunk. Gen 9:21

Unsupported claim.

Gilgamesh could NOT have been written before Noah arrived

Unsupported claim.

because there were NO Humans (descendants of Adam) on this Planet to write it.

Unsupported claim.

It' proof that Gilgamesh is nothing more than the twisted storytelling of early mankind.

Unsupported claim.

They just repeated an old story they were told in their youth.

Unsupported claim.

Noah arrived some 10k years ago

Unsupported claim.

and Gilgamesh was written some two thousand years later.

Unsupported claim.

Quote:
Then show YOUR map which details that farming began EARLIER than God tells us it did in an area of the world which is NOT in the Fertile crescent.

The Americas go rather far back.

Until you do, your idea is refuted, Historically, again.

Unsupported claim.

In your humble unsupported opinion, I might add. That, and $1 will get you a cup of coffee at some fast food places.

Unsupported claim.

 

[outhouse]

Nah. The "debate" has actually forced me to do quick research to confirm what I'm arguing.

Ya but you might discolor a wall if you argue close enough to it


Guess you can sharpen your skills though, carry on

 

[Aman777]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aman777
Sorry, but there is a difference between Human and animal intelligence, according to SCIENCE. It's called the Encephalization quotient and NO animal comes close to Human intelligence. Human EQ is some 7.44 while Chimps are 2.48 and Elephants are only 1.87. Your view is refuted Scientifically.

Actually no, the connection between "intelligence and encephalization is an hypothesis not a theory.

Dear Sapiens, Thanks for the correction. Sometimes I forget how scientists cover their rear ends with the definitions of words which ONLY they know. It's another example of circular reasoning, which is confirmed only by another believer in their particular scientific denomination. God Bless you.

BTW, I noticed you found it impossible to refute my other statements, so you just denied them all. How cute.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Aman777]

Quote:
Originally Posted by outhouse
If you feed the POE, the POE survives.

Stop feeding it, it will go away

Nah. The "debate" has actually forced me to do quick research to confirm what I'm arguing.

Dear Readers, From now on, Riverwolf's understanding of what Genesis actually says has been permanently altered. By now, he's already realized that there is much more to God's Truth than any ancient goatherder could have possilby known or written, more than 3k years ago. It's the most interesting story in Creation and the FIRST story in the Bible, and it has been totally misunderstood for thousands of years.

The key to understanding Genesis one, is a good knowledge of today's Science and History, and a desire to really understand what the story teaches. The story has been sealed until the time of the end, Dan 12:4 and we are now in the last days. 2Pe 3:3 It's time for Humanity to refute the Lie that Humans evolved from Apes. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

 

[Sonofason]

Dear Readers, It is impossible for Humans to have evolved from the common ancestor of Apes since Humans were made long before ANY other living creature. Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans was made the THIRD Day. Gen 2:4-7 Jesus made Adam of the dust of the ground BEFORE the first Stars of our Universe put forth their light on the FOURTH Day. Gen 1:16

This means that the common ancestor of Apes, on our Earth, lived Billions of years AFTER Adam, the first Human was made, according to Scripture. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

I'd like to say that the claim here is rather absurd. First, it is possible that human beings and other primates have a common ancestor. I personally am not convinced that they do, but it is obviously a possibility. In this claim of yours, you say that Humans were made on the third day. You cite Genesis 2:4-7 which states:

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

While I see what you are trying to do, you are wrong. Yes, the word day is used. But just as many people are confusing the 6 days of creation with literal 24 hour days, you are confusing the word day here as well. The entire Bible is true. Genesis 1 states that man was created on the sixth day. There is no way that the Bible is contradicting itself as you are forcing it to do here.
Genesis 2, in the verses you have cited is recapping the day (time), which included six days (day - times of light - when God is present, light is present, it is day) when God created the earth and the heavens, with the intention of bringing the focal point of this creation to God's creation of mankind.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

First, it is possible that human beings and other primates have a common ancestor. I personally am not convinced that they do, but it is obviously a possibility.

It's not a possibility at all. It's a fact. We in fact ARE primates. Genetically we share 98% of our gnome with other primates...and the other 2% we've identified the divergence.

 

[Thief]

It's not a possibility at all. It's a fact. We in fact ARE primates. Genetically we share 98% of our gnome with other primates...and the other 2% we've identified the divergence.

duh....it's the subtle difference that makes the difference.

The 2% you just pointed out is the reason we are NOT ...PRImates.

 

[Bunyip]

duh....it's the subtle difference that makes the difference.

The 2% you just pointed out is the reason we are NOT ...PRImates.

You misread. Humans are definitely primates, we are also Hominidae - great apes, a classification we share with the other great apes; Chimps, Gorillas, Gibbons and Orangoutans.

In fact we are more closely related to chimps than they are to gorillas.

 

[s2a]

Dear Readers, It is impossible for Humans to have evolved from the common ancestor of Apes since Humans were made long before ANY other living creature. Adam, the common ancestor of ALL Humans was made the THIRD Day. Gen 2:4-7 Jesus made Adam of the dust of the ground BEFORE the first Stars of our Universe put forth their light on the FOURTH Day. Gen 1:16

This means that the common ancestor of Apes, on our Earth, lived Billions of years AFTER Adam, the first Human was made, according to Scripture. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman

Yep.

That's STILL what it means, but as you may yet one day day come to understand, we as homo sapiens are NOT direct descendants of apes. Evolution does NOT make that claim, and never has. Your delusion is predicated upon a purposed mischaracterization designed to instil confusion over provable fact. FAITH is not at issue here (unless you think yourself an "inerrant fundamentalist").

You have the "right" to believe the world is flat, and that electronic devices are just "inexplicable magic". You have that "right".

You are wrong, and ill-informed, but believe what you wish. We will bury you with other adherents of 12th century "beliefs".

 

[RichardParker]

...we as homo sapiens are NOT direct descendants of apes. Evolution does NOT make that claim, and never has.

Aaaaactually...
Yes, we are.
We are descendants of apes... and that's why we still are apes.
Humans are a species in the taxonomic groupe "great apes", which again is a sup-set of apes. So, the common ancestor we, chimps, gorillas, etc. had were apes as well.

It's like birds and ducks. All ducks are birds but not all birds are ducks.
All humans are apes, but not all apes are humans.

At least when you go by phylogenetic classification, which I consider to be the only real valide one, since it doesn't require constant exceptions and special-pleading-cases.

 

[Rotcha]

Abrahamic God is not real, just compare Israels history and compare archaeological evidence with the scripture (Real Facts, in comparison to story tellings), you can find them anywhere. Here is wikipedia.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah#The_archaeological_record

They were originally canaanites and always lived in the land of Israel. They where never an outsider group followed by Moses as the bible and other abrahamic faiths claims(That part is just a story, same with Joshua). Proof right there.

Humans are not the modern ape you see in the zoo. But shared a common ancestor with chimps. DNA is about 99% common with chimps vs humans.

 

[Thief]

You misread. Humans are definitely primates, we are also Hominidae - great apes, a classification we share with the other great apes; Chimps, Gorillas, Gibbons and Orangoutans.

In fact we are more closely related to chimps than they are to gorillas.

And just simply ignored the point.
That two% difference makes a difference.

If you are content to call yourself an animal.....fine.
And later, when heaven does it again.....no argument form you....right?

oh that's right....no belief.....no problem.....
a box in the ground and eternal darkness for you.

fine.

 

[Thief]

So at this point some participants are content that Man did NOT evolve from the ape....and we are still apes......

I don't see we are getting anywhere.