Hypothetical question for those who believe in hell :

[abc123kid]

You "believing" eternal hell is real doesn´t make it real neither. You conceptions and understanding are finite, conceptions and understanding of God are in-finite.

You see? both of us can play that game. Reality is that if you don´t, at LEAST trust your own judgement... well, you can´t even trust in anything, because you are not even able to trust in what YOU belive is trustable, given that you would be using your: emotions, comprehension, etc to see if you believe it or not. Who cares if you believe Bible has the truth? If you don´t trust on yourself, how can you trust in your beliefs of what is truth or not? if you don´t trust such beliefs, you cannot determine where truth is, so you cannot really trust in your belief of bible being truthfull.


I haven´t answered the question because it is a stupid question that doesn´t even understand itself.

You didn´t answer my question neither anyways.

Truth is not error. Truth is not error .Truth is not a feeling. Truth is not a sensation. Truth is not an idea. Truth is found in the Bible. I trust in myself just enough to read and try to understand the truth in God's word. Truth is what God says is truth.

 

[Me Myself]

Truth is not error. Truth is not error .Truth is not a feeling. Truth is not a sensation. Truth is not an idea. Truth is found in the Bible. I trust in myself just enough to read and try to understand the truth in God's word. Truth is what God says is truth.

You trust your guts enough to believe the bible is God´s word because your guts tell you so. That´s a big mistake for your guts, but it´s your right.

I find it quite lovely that this is the only Christian who answered yes that is answering this thread.

The level of brainpollution some of the asseverations you make seem are pretty much the poison I would expect to be in someone´s mind to misdirect the heart so much into taking the answer you took.

All the other hell-bellieving christians, dare not to answer because of the incoherence between what they feel about God and what they feel about this scenario.

 

[abc123kid]

You trust your guts enough to believe the bible is God´s word because your guts tell you so. That´s a big mistake for your guts, but it´s your right.

I find it quite lovely that this is the only Christian who answered yes that is answering this thread.

The level of brainpollution some of the asseverations you make seem are pretty much the poison I would expect to be in someone´s mind to misdirect the heart so much into taking the answer you took.

All the other hell-bellieving christians, dare not to answer because of the incoherence between what they feel about God and what they feel about this scenario.

God must punish those who break His law because it is the right thing to do. Just as a parent should punish a child for doing something wrong (intentionally), so God must punish those who do wrong. You see, if God did not punish the person who does wrong, then He would be unjust and unrighteous. He would be breaking His own law -- which He cannot do. But, someone might say that the punishment of a parent on a child is temporary whereas God's punishment is eternal. Why the difference? The answer is two fold. First, God is infinite and a parent is not. Second, God is the standard of all righteousness and the parent is not. Because God is infinite, when we sin, we are offending an infinite God. This is incredibly significant. The reason sin is so bad is not so much because of the one committing the sin, but because of the One who is offended. In other words, sin is so incredibly bad because it takes on a horrible quality by the very fact of who it is against: an infinitely pure, holy, and righteous God.
A parent is not the standard of righteousness. God is. A parent is (or should be) using the righteous standard of God in raising children. Therefore, though a parent's punishment is temporary because it is instruction and correction, the punishment of God is eternal because our sin is against an eternal God. There is a big difference.

 

[Me Myself]

First, God is infinite and a parent is not. Second, God is the standard of all righteousness and the parent is not. Because God is infinite, when we sin, we are offending an infinite God. This is incredibly significant. The reason sin is so bad is not so much because of the one committing the sin, but because of the One who is offended. In other words, sin is so incredibly bad because it takes on a horrible quality by the very fact of who it is against: an infinitely pure, holy, and righteous God.
A parent is not the standard of righteousness. God is. A parent is (or should be) using the righteous standard of God in raising children. Therefore, though a parent's punishment is temporary because it is instruction and correction, the punishment of God is eternal because our sin is against an eternal God. There is a big difference.

There is no one single benefit for eternal punishment, and there is an eternity of suffering because of it.

If you have a present of great value, and you want to give it to someone you love: would you give it to him/her knowing that this person would make him/herself suffer infinetely ebcause of your valuable present?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It ultimately is about what happens after we die. What happens after we die will usually determine how we live now. Your argument is flawed. When playing a basketball game you are trying to score points in the here and now but ultimately its so you could win the game. But if you could win the game without sweating and scoring goals then you wouldnt. So yes it is for today and now and helping God's world and telling others about God's great love for them.

We should not be concerned as to what happens after we die.
nor are we in some sort of competition.
Jesus did not do as he did for reward, but because it was what God wanted of him.
we should follow his teachings with out any thought of reward.
My argument is not flawed, it simply does not allow for a reward or punishment element.
We follow Jesus teachings because that is the right thing to do, not for a prize or fear of punishment if we do not.

Those that do not do so are failing God.

 

[I care]

We should not be concerned as to what happens after we die.
nor are we in some sort of competition.
Jesus did not do as he did for reward, but because it was what God wanted of him.
we should follow his teachings with out any thought of reward.
My argument is not flawed, it simply does not allow for a reward or punishment element.
We follow Jesus teachings because that is the right thing to do, not for a prize or fear of punishment if we do not.

Those that do not do so are failing God.

These are the eternal questions, I think.
Heaven and hell make no sense to me and Jesus' sacrifice makes no sense if it was done at God's behest. My God is all loving, that leaves no room for hell. It also leaves no room for the sacrifice. How do we reconcile these concepts with an ALL Loving God?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

These are the eternal questions, I think.
Heaven and hell make no sense to me and Jesus' sacrifice makes no sense if it was done at God's behest. My God is all loving, that leaves no room for hell. It also leaves no room for the sacrifice. How do we reconcile these concepts with an ALL Loving God?

God is not a Lovey dovey God, He does what is best for his creation in love.
While we are here we are his senses and his hands. we have free will and can chose not to do what is needed.
Jesus was not so much a sacrifice but an extreme example to us of how far we should be prepared to go in doing God's work.

 

[thau]

Let´s say God tells you that your next child (that you want with all your love to have) with the wo/man you love will definetely go to hell at the end of it´s life because s/he would make all the bad choices. Let´s say he is telling you this so you can choose wheter you want to concieve him/her or not.

Will you have that child? Knowing that s/he would spent eternity in hell after s/he dies?

btw, answers are public.

My answer is "no" I would not have that child ---- providing I understand the truth of what hell is being how we perceive it here in our human minds.

There is precedence for this you know? Jesus said of Judas (paraphrase) "better that man never to have been born..."

(Now don't come up with your next unanswerable question and ask me "Then why did God allow Judas to be born?" because I cannot answer it. I am not that arrogant to demand God answer all my concerns before I will give Him his due.)

 

[Me Myself]

My answer is "no" I would not have that child ---- providing I understand the truth of what hell is being how we perceive it here in our human minds.

There is precedence for this you know? Jesus said of Judas (paraphrase) "better that man never to have been born..."

(Now don't come up with your next unanswerable question and ask me "Then why did God allow Judas to be born?" because I cannot answer it. I am not that arrogant to demand God answer all my concerns before I will give Him his due.)

Coming from your username I would be surprised you weren't humble. At LEAST as humble as me

In any case. It's always good to see someone being more compassionate than his "god" of eternal suffering.

 

[Me Myself]

These are the eternal questions, I think.
Heaven and hell make no sense to me and Jesus' sacrifice makes no sense if it was done at God's behest. My God is all loving, that leaves no room for hell. It also leaves no room for the sacrifice. How do we reconcile these concepts with an ALL Loving God?

As much as I agree with what you say, it doesn't sound catholic at all.

 

[thau]

Coming from your username I would be surprised you weren't humble. At LEAST as humble as me

In any case. It's always good to see someone being more compassionate than his "god" of eternal suffering.

Well Jesus made it clear we are not to judge one another, but I guess he didn't specifically say we could not judge God as you just did. (speaking of humility)

A humble person would never question God's wisdom for hell, or more importantly, a humble person would never think of putting himself on par with God and having this "face to face" brass tacks talk about hell. God's mercy --- you really have no idea with that comment, do you?.... either that, or you were just having fun with me.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Humility does not necessarily mean obeisance; particularly on this issue, given the other virtues which would suggest that remaining silent when you perceive an injustice (even one wrought by god) is wrong

 

[Me Myself]

Well Jesus made it clear we are not to judge one another, but I guess he didn't specifically say we could not judge God as you just did. (speaking of humility)

A humble person would never question God's wisdom for hell, or more importantly, a humble person would never think of putting himself on par with God and having this "face to face" brass tacks talk about hell. God's mercy --- you really have no idea with that comment, do you?.... either that, or you were just having fun with me.

You seem to be confused.

If it was not obvious to you by now, I don't believe in your "god", so I am not judging the god (I would have to believe in him first), I am judging the concept of God being the way you describe.

Neither you nor I have evidence of our Gods.

I am judging YOU for putting faith on a concept of God that allows eternal Hell.

Hopefully, that was clearer to you.

 

[Me Myself]

Humility does not necessarily mean obeisance; particularly on this issue, given the other virtues which would suggest that remaining silent when you perceive an injustice (even one wrought by god) is wrong

And this is instant frubal material*

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Lol thankyou ^_^ I figure I am likely to be right at least once out of every 900 posts

To believe and obey a being, even if that being is the Abrahamic 'God', even if we then narrow it down further to the omnibenevolent facet we are told in Christianity is the 'true' nature of God - to believe in and obey that entity is not to do so without thought; that is to use the 'God given' intellect we possess to examine some aspects of our faith and ask whether or not that is consistent with the overall message. Is it consistent for an benevolent being to allow its 'children' to have inflicted upon them (against their will) infinite pain, when it is within it's (omnipotent) ability to prevent this? For a believer, it is not a lack of humility that begs such a question, but rather faith in it's benevolence - for most Christians (or indeed most who believe in the modern interpretation of a benevolent Abrahamic god) I believe the benevolent aspect of God is more integral to faith than the aspect of hell, is it not?

 

[thau]

Lol thankyou ^_^ I figure I am likely to be right at least once out of every 900 posts

To believe and obey a being, even if that being is the Abrahamic 'God', even if we then narrow it down further to the omnibenevolent facet we are told in Christianity is the 'true' nature of God - to believe in and obey that entity is not to do so without thought; that is to use the 'God given' intellect we possess to examine some aspects of our faith and ask whether or not that is consistent with the overall message. Is it consistent for an benevolent being to allow its 'children' to have inflicted upon them (against their will) infinite pain, when it is within it's (omnipotent) ability to prevent this? For a believer, it is not a lack of humility that begs such a question, but rather faith in it's benevolence - for most Christians (or indeed most who believe in the modern interpretation of a benevolent Abrahamic god) I believe the benevolent aspect of God is more integral to faith than the aspect of hell, is it not?

I liked what you wrote here. I agree with most of it, if not all of it.

I add.

This “hell mystery” is not the only eternal concept a human mind cannot come to terms with but it may surely be the most difficult. I maintain God has revealed much who He is, but not all. It is on that which I am assured, that I allow “the unknown” to have its place. For reasons and evidence not given here, I know that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and only through Christ is any man allowed into heaven. For me, it is enough. Hence, as one saint remarked: “a thousand questions do not equal one doubt.”

 

[Me Myself]

Like me doubting in the benevolence of a God whose compassion is tinier than that of most humans.

Doubt is doubt indeed.

 

[thau]

"Neither you nor I have evidence of our Gods."

I have all that I could ever ask for or need. Perhaps it is more obvious than before that does not translate for others? Call it another mystery that I am unable to account for. I see it in my own family.

So when Scripture says in the end that which remains is faith, hope, and love (read: charity), and the greatest of these is love --- it sounds rather prophetic to me. I cling to faith and hope in these situations of apparent impermeable doubt. As to love, no one is willing to give a Christian any credit for that if he dares to speak with any assurance or authority. Well, strike one and two against us for being so naively bold. Our love does not come across very well at all. Nor does our faith that God will prevail even in the most hardened of hearts. Consequently, we remain very grave and worriesome. Trust is one tough virtue to practice.

 

[Me Myself]

And I keep that phrase to mean what it meant.

You are free to believe a being who willfully accepted that some of his childs will be tortured for ever even though he could have avoided all their pain and still didn't choose to is the paramount of morality.

Trust on that as much as you must. I find my version far more trustable, but hey, I know you won't change your mind by my opinion, and am sure as non-hell ( ) that you won't change mine because your book says differently.

 

[Me Myself]

Bump.*