I am a good man, so why don't I have a girlfriend? Do I need to be a jerk instead?

[illykitty]

If you are still single and a nice guy perhaps the problem is that you're chasing the wrong types of women? I am married to a nice guy and would do it all over again! Clever ladies don't fall for bad guys.

 

[Badran]

Baldran, I'd like to point something out.

My first post on this thread was post #8. It was very kind, and I put some serious thought into it.

I got absolutely ZERO response from the guy who started the thread, and for that matter, anyone else, on that post and several other nice, kind posts I formulated, sincerely trying to help.

After awhile, I lost patience and just told 'em "how the cow ate the cabbage," (whatever the heck that means). Even then, my words were tempered by the extreme patience I have with young men, considering that I have two 20 something year old sons of my own and two 20 something stepsons. And two younger brothers. Honey, I am PATIENT with men - especially the young ones.

I do shoot straight though - like Mystic. That's not even tough love - that's just straightforward advice with the good of the other person in mind.

If all this sincere, well meant and honest advice from real women is too tough for some of the young men on this thread, then frankly - I see what their problem is, and most women with common sense would say the same thing - and run in the opposite direction as fast as they could!

It seems that it was only after page after page of sweetness and light advice that the women responding to the thread began to get irritated.

Furthermore, at the risk of sounding like a prima donna (in fact, just remove me from this next statement) if you'll look, some of the kindest and wisest female members of RF have been active on this thread.

That's some prime advice these guys are getting!

Thanks for sharing. Allow me to clarify a couple of things too:

- Like i said earlier to Mystic, there are many possible reasons as to why the OP may not have came back to this thread. Its not necessarily because he's discarding the advice given or because he really wants to view women in a negative light and blame them for his problems.

- Neither your posts in particular, or female posts in general, was what i was referring to (and the latter seems to be the impression got for a reason that escapes me). I referred in general to the immense amount of negative things aimed at the OP. And other males replied to me taking the post to be aimed at them too (well, one male, but its Sunstone; so it counts for more).

- The posts i primarily had in mind are posts that took shots at him more than anything else. Or posts that made some general statement then a shot at him. Or posts that solely take a shot at him etc...

- How the discussion went on account of certain people is i think the main reason of the frustration of everyone, rather than the lack of replies from the OP. At least, that has been the reason i earlier expressed frustration with this thread, and where negative rather than positive posts started to show.

- Like i said above, my post wasn't actually directed at women, neither did i imply in the slightest that it was. So: i'm not saying anything about the quality of advice given by women in this thread (or even the advice given in general), or about the women who have posted in this thread. I actually already posted and said that there have been plenty of good advice in this thread. I think plenty of men and women have provided great advice for the OP.

One last thing, in regards to this:

If all this sincere, well meant and honest advice from real women is too tough for some of the young men on this thread, then frankly - I see what their problem is, and most women with common sense would say the same thing - and run in the opposite direction as fast as they could!

If you're referring to the posts i'm referring to (putting in mind the clarification i gave above), then personally i wouldn't blame the OP or anybody else who finds those posts unhelpful and hurtful.

If you're not referring to those, then yeah, i agree.

 

[Me Myself]

I truly didn´t like how much garbage was put into the OP without anyone really knowing him.

I said it since my first post. I thought it was very sad that people took that perspective for a given.

I think most if not all of us have had one two or a million hurts in the "game" of love, and while we learn to minimize the risks and try to see which we can do stuff so they dont happen again or that often, it is also important to consider that for some people it´s just harder.

I think some women felt attacked and part of their answers came from that.

 

[Me Myself]

No, no, PLEASE do not become a jerk toward women!

Not sure how old you are but you sound rather young, perhaps still in school? If this is the case, here's my suggestion:

Remain a nice, chivalrous, responsible, respectful man, even in spite of the rejection you are feeling.

Give these foolish girls a few years to get beat up/mistreated/jerked around by more "exciting," "exotic," "mysterious," "powerful" men. After a few years of this, they'll appreciate you a lot more.

Meanwhile, take a close look at where and how you are meeting women. Are you meeting them in places and situations that would attract the caliber of woman you are looking for? You're not trying to be a knight in shining armor, are you? What I mean by that is that some guys are attracted to women they can "save" from bad situations - unfortunately, these women don't always make the best mates, considering they are often already messed up which is WHY they are in bad situations to begin with!

Don't compromise your values. Set your standard for the sort of woman you want to be with, and then make sure you're worthy yourself of that sort of woman. What I mean by that is, basically (here's just an example) - if you want someone with good credit, make sure you have good credit too. If you want someone who keeps themselves neat and clean, be sure you do the same. If you want someone who's in good shape physically, be sure you are too.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

I do think this was a good initial answer

 

[Badran]

Sure, there may be some good reason a guy has a really flashy car, but it's an obstacle to impressing me, not an asset.

Okay, my issue lied basically in the implication that its by default a bad thing i guess, unless justified. In other words, i don't view it as an asset, but i don't view it as an obstacle neither.

That may be because i'm already familiar with that kind of mentality though. And, as you put it here, it seems more of a preference thing, or as put earlier by Penumbra, alignment of priorities. With which i have no problem.

 

[Sunstone]

You have to posture. Girls love an act. The more pretentious the better.

I firmly agree. The more fake you are, the better you come across as a desirable person. And what girl is smart enough to see through the front you're putting on? There's almost no downside to faking it.

 

[Me Myself]

I firmly agree. The more fake you are, the better you come across as a desirable person. And what girl is smart enough to see through the front you're putting on? There's almost no downside to faking it.

They tend to take their time... then when they notice, denial can take in.

 

[no-body]

I wasn't directing my comments specifically at the op but the "nice guy" trope that gets bandied about. Usually such guys aren't very good guys at all but just bad guys without spines.

The mirror image of this I think would be women who bemoan the fact that they have to settle for mediocre guys or jerks because there are no good guys out there.

It is silly either way to stereotype an entire gender because of your small personal experience, there are millions of potential mates out there of course most of your experiences will be bad at first like anything else it takes work to find compatibility.

 

[Badran]

I do think this was a good initial answer

I agree.

Posts like that are actually the best advice he's gotten in this thread, and worded pretty much perfectly.

 

[painted wolf]

I don't always candy coat my advice...

Relationships, in love or politics, require people to not only be honest with the other person but with themselves. If your relationship isn't working, you're doing something wrong, not just the other person. So step back, look at your own actions first before blaming the other party.

It's not easy being an adult.

wa:do

 

[Shermana]

The OP specified that he's looking for carnal relations in addition to the "love" part. As far as I'm concerned, my guess is that he's mainly concerned with getting the physical part of it. If you have to ask about why women go for jerks, in a way, you are a jerk. If however, you are willing to admit that you're just jealous of the jerks, you are better than most "nice guys". The word "Nice guy" is not the same as a "true nice guy", it's a matter of False Scotsmen. A true "Nice guy" understands that women go for whoever they want to go for. Their mistakes are no one's but their own faults. You can be frustrated by how well the jerks are able to get the ones you may want, but don't think that because you would treat them better means you would if you could like they can.

Now I also understand many women can't comprehend (or most likely admit) why men would act the way they do. It's because of what is presented and available to them. Do you have a good physique and money and a nice car? You're in. Are you barely making ends meet or worse and out of shape and unhealthy? Tough luck. It's not a matter of "women" it's a matter of "individuals" who are female biologically if you want to "truly" understand the best way to observe the female human in a way which is best.

All women have differences, however, there are often many similarities which we "untamed" males are looking to take advantage of to get what we want from them.

"How dare you want something from them"!!

Well here's the problem. Of course we do. We wouldn't marry unless it meant financial gain in almost all cases if it meant anything less. If you're looking for a friend who will look at you as a reliable person, someone she trusts as a friend, and is willing to talk to on a soulful level, well that's true "Success" with women in the best of ways if that's what you're looking for. Women want friends who are men in most cases, but few are willing to just be 'friends".

And there's a reason.

Very few of us want to be "just friends" when the right level of attractiveness and availability is met. I will guess there are "few" men who would be content in such a situation. Sheer animalish id/libido-based hunger for the prime female lurks in most men. In a way, many of us have learned this same forceful libido exists in women for men who exhibit certain qualities. To become the choice of the female over the available competition, we must present ourselves in such a way that makes us their willing choice. Carnality is and always will be, unless "tamed", (i.e. also known as "Englightened" or perhaps "Bramacharya" in Eastern terms), the prime focal issue.

So that goes back to square one. Women often may want to look that they as a near whole don't represent what the majority speaks for, while men are usually less willing to hide the facts of who they are...for long. The fact is, if you want to go to a club and get your carnality on, you're competing with the best players in the game. So you must now join the ranks of the "So-called jerks", or if you're a "nice guy", hope that their ESP level is able to detect a "needy guy in seeking of a carnality partner" and that just happens to be what they're looking for instead of the "Jerks" who are getting the lady's attention that you wish you were getting.

Is the OP looking for a true relationship with someone he can talk about the world with and will have the fullness of a real relationship and possibly family with that person? Or is he looking to become what most men our age seem to want to be and have? Is he looking to have a harem of girls like most of us or is he looking for a real life partner in a Sacred Union?

If he wants a real relationship, then the only answer is to have a real reason for the woman to want to invest her entire life and body, and that's about chiseling yourself out, mentally and physically, to become someone she's willing to invest in.

 

[Me Myself]

I don't always candy coat my advice...

Relationships, in love or politics, require people to not only be honest with the other person but with themselves. If your relationship isn't working, you're doing something wrong, not just the other person. So step back, look at your own actions first before blaming the other party.

It's not easy being an adult.

wa:do

I tnd to say the same.

BUT, giving information to someone about something is not the same as making him feel guilty becaus he "should´ve already know" nor is it proper to assume what he is making wrong just because it was your first thought as to what may be (not saying you did that, It´s just that many posts in this thread immidiately went that way. One thing is to suggest him he may be doing that and be careful of it, another thing is to assume he is donig that while you tell him to stop doing it )

If someone is bad with mathematics and doesn´t even know tyhe basic formula, you dont assume he is an idiot because he doesnt know the fomula and make it feel his fault. You teach him the formula and give advice so he can become proficient with it. And this is NOT FORMULA scenario

 

[Sunstone]

In general, all the advice in the world about who or what to be (or not be) doesn't mean much unless you meet a lot of women. Of course, you might get lucky after meeting just a few women -- and a lot of guys count on combining small numbers with huge luck. But I think that attitude mostly just contributes to the 50% divorce rate, since combining small numbers with huge luck usually ends up with your settling for someone you are not all that compatible with.

So, my advice is to go out and meet a hundred women. Keep count while you do. And if that isn't enough to find someone who is right for you, meet a hundred more. It's easy to meet five women and settle for one you're half compatible with. But if you want to meet someone you're very compatible with, plan on meeting many more than a handful.

 

[painted wolf]

I tnd to say the same.

BUT, giving information to someone about something is not the same as making him feel guilty becaus he "should´ve already know" nor is it proper to assume what he is making wrong just because it was your first thought as to what may be (not saying you did that, It´s just that many posts in this thread immidiately went that way. One thing is to suggest him he may be doing that and be careful of it, another thing is to assume he is donig that while you tell him to stop doing it )

If someone is bad with mathematics and doesn´t even know tyhe basic formula, you dont assume he is an idiot because he doesnt know the fomula and make it feel his fault. You teach him the formula and give advice so he can become proficient with it. And this is NOT FORMULA scenario

If I thought he was an idiot I would have ignored him.

I think he could use a push to think about how others think rather than jumping to the "nice guy/jerk" dichotomy. And to avoid other bad behaviors before they become bad habits.

I certainly didn't think any of my advice was something the "should have known" already. A kick in the pants isn't the same as a guilt trip.

wa:do

 

[Me Myself]

But he said he was naturaly a nice guy. Not that he was a nice guy to atract chicks!

At least the way I read him, what he most disliked is the idea he might need to be something completely alien to who he is to find a romantic partner.

 

[Kathryn]

I wasn't directing my comments specifically at the op but the "nice guy" trope that gets bandied about. Usually such guys aren't very good guys at all but just bad guys without spines.

The mirror image of this I think would be women who bemoan the fact that they have to settle for mediocre guys or jerks because there are no good guys out there.

It is silly either way to stereotype an entire gender because of your small personal experience, there are millions of potential mates out there of course most of your experiences will be bad at first like anything else it takes work to find compatibility.

Speak the truth and the truth shall set you FREE!!!!!!!!!!

 

[painted wolf]

But he said he was naturaly a nice guy. Not that he was a nice guy to atract chicks!

At least the way I read him, what he most disliked is the idea he might need to be something completely alien to who he is to find a romantic partner.

Most jerks think they are actually "nice guys"... few people want to admit to themselves that they are a jerk.

Plus, he did specifically say that after being told about it, he tried "being friends" with women in order to get a chance to ask them out. And he seemed confused that a year didn't seem to be long enough to earn him a date (since all but one of them turned him down).

He didn't choose to be friends for the sake of being friends... but because someone suggested that was a good way to get a date.

wa:do

 

[Kathryn]

Hey, maybe he should try that ol, "I know we've never met before, but can I just say I think you are very attractive?" line.

Depending on whether or not a woman is PMSing - this line can actually work sometimes.

And it just cuts through all that "Hey I'm a nice guy and I want to be your friend...yeah, that's the ticket..." stuff.

Straight to the chase.

 

[lunamoth]

Maybe he is not attracted to nice girls.

 

[Me Myself]

You are plain evil lunamoth