I Am A Good Person, Therefore, I'm Going To Heaven!

[Ingledsva]

I don't think it matters what we personally think about anyone else or their beliefs.......I believe that it is what God thinks of us that matters.
The true God will reveal himself one day soon and we will all know then...won't we?

You seem to have missed the point I was making.

YOU said - "..I see evidence for the existence of my God all around me every day."

Every religion out there says the same thing, - and YOU believe all of them to be false.

Those in other religions are also saying YOUR religion is the false one.

So why wouldn't you expect us to find your religion to be false, - just as you judge others to be?

None of you have any proof of God, let alone that your religion is God's religion.

Yet you expect the rest of us to just accept your belief as fact.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

No, that is not MY saying. It is the claim of Jesus.

History supports the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.

Flavius Josephus, a non-believer and historian of the Roman Empire wrote about the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. Other secular historians did as well, long before they ever heard the name Muhammad.

Incidentally, I see no solid historical proof that Muhammad ever existed

There may have been a person named Jesus, - and he may have thought he was the awaited Messiah.

However, - there is NO proof of any resurrection, or miracles, or magic, etc.

Flavius Josephus was not there. He was just writing what others had said.

And of course his paragraph on Jesus is thought by many historians to have been inserted into his works - partly because its wording is from a later style, and the wording is too Christian.

*

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
So there was no church when Jesus was alive..

Oh .. so Jesus, peace be with him, didn't go to church then?
Is that why most Christians don't go, and claim that it's not necessary?

 

[Taylor Seraphim]

After reading all of your posts, I have concluded that you are not looking for proofs of God's existence. You don't need to be on a forum to find proofs. There are all sorts of websites which offer plenty of proofs that there is a God. I'm really not sure why you're here. Only God knows your true motives.

It is not the job of christians to prove the existence of God to you. He has provided all the proof a person needs within His creation. All one needs to do is look around.

“For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—His eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse” (Romans 1:20).

He has also provided proof to you in His Word, but you have chosen to reject what He so graciously has given you.

Nothing anyone could say on this forum will change your thinking. You don't want to change. Unless you are open to the Lord, it will never happen.

Our God is a very patient God. He wants all to be saved, but He is not going to wait for you forever. Time will run out, and you don't know when that time will come. When it does, it'll be too late. There won't be any second chances for you.

Personally, I'd be scared to death to take that risk.

You can believe I'm wrong in my thinking, but I have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. You, on the other hand, have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

Let me pick apart your pathetic accusations and excuse for arguments piece by piece.

1) Yes I am looking for proof that a deity exist, I just like to only believe in things that are true, not things that give me comfort.

2) I do look all around, and people use that excuse for Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, and every other religion under the sun. You are in denial that your interpretation is not the only one.

3) If I quoted a verse from the Quran at you, would it prove anything? No. This is just proof that your religion is false, because when people loo at nature without having been born into your religion or have had your book they do not become Christians.

4) For the last time, I WANT there to be a benevolent deity who are you trying to convince here, yourself? Well that makes sense, it might shatter your world view if you knew that their where atheist that wanted thee to be a god.

5) That is a really stupid statement, if he wanted me to believe in him he would reveal himself to me in a way that could not be explained any other way. Since he does do that, that means that he does not care. Also if I remember correctly, you are going to go to hell if Islam is correct but I do not see you scrambling to go to Islam, so why should I go to Christianity out of primal fear of a imaginary punishment?

6) So you worship your god out of fear of his power? I suppose if Satan was the one in control you would worship him instead.

7) Pretty sure you can go to Muslim hell as well as several other thousands of religion's hells.

 

[Shad]

Incidentally, I see no solid historical proof that Muhammad ever existed

Thomas the Presbyterian wrote about him after 636 but before 641, the former is the death of his brother, which he mentions and the later is the death of the Emperor, which is not in the text. Which is only a few years after Muhammad's death. For more sources read "The Earliest Christian writings on Muhammad: an appraisal" in H. Motzki ed., The Biography of Muhammad (Leiden, 2000) by Robert Hoyland. If you accept a source decades removed from Jesus' death as evidence you have no grounds to reject records within years of Muhammad's death.

 

[katiemygirl]

"Taylor Seraphim, post: 4725783, member: 59147"
1) Yes I am looking for proof that a deity exist, I just like to only believe in things that are true, not things that give me comfort.

I believe in things that are true. That should be everyone's goal.

2) I do look all around, and people use that excuse for Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Wicca, and every other religion under the sun. You are in denial that your interpretation is not the only one.

All religions believe in a creator.

3) If I quoted a verse from the Quran at you, would it prove anything? No. This is just proof that your religion is false, because when people loo at nature without having been born into your religion or have had your book they do not become Christians.

Looking at nature leads a person to God, but it doesn't end there. You need to make a choice at that point to accept or reject Him.

4) For the last time, I WANT there to be a benevolent deity who are you trying to convince here, yourself? Well that makes sense, it might shatter your world view if you knew that their where atheist that wanted thee to be a god.

I'm glad to know that there are atheists that want there to be a God, but until they accept that there is one, they'll never find Him.

5) That is a really stupid statement, if he wanted me to believe in him he would reveal himself to me in a way that could not be explained any other way. Since he does do that, that means that he does not care. Also if I remember correctly, you are going to go to hell if Islam is correct but I do not see you scrambling to go to Islam, so why should I go to Christianity out of primal fear of a imaginary punishment?

He has revealed Himself to you, and you've rejected what He has shown you.

6) So you worship your god out of fear of his power? I suppose if Satan was the one in control you would worship him instead.

There was a time very early on, before I became a christian, that I feared God, but not anymore. One I understood the nature of God, I no longer feared Him. I worship God because I love Him above all things.

7) Pretty sure you can go to Muslim hell as well as several other thousands of religion's hells.

There's only one hell, and it's the one God created for those who rebel against Him.

 

[katiemygirl]

Thomas the Presbyterian wrote about him after 636 but before 641, the former is the death of his brother, which he mentions and the later is the death of the Emperor, which is not in the text. Which is only a few years after Muhammad's death. For more sources read "The Earliest Christian writings on Muhammad: an appraisal" in H. Motzki ed., The Biography of Muhammad (Leiden, 2000) by Robert Hoyland. If you accept a source decades removed from Jesus' death as evidence you have no grounds to reject records within years of Muhammad's death.

Most of Jesus' life on earth has been recorded in the gospels and New Testament.

Nothing is known about Muhammed. I think he's mentioned 4 times in the Quran, which was written centuries after the birth of Jesus.

 

[katiemygirl]

Oh .. so Jesus, peace be with him, didn't go to church then?
Is that why most Christians don't go, and claim that it's not necessary?

Jesus was a Jew. He worshiped in the temple.

The church Jesus started wasn't established until Pentecost, fifty days after His resurrection, and ten days after His ascension into heaven.

I can't speak for others, but I do know that there are many false christians, just as I'm sure there are false muslims. They talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk. True christians do assemble together for worship.

Throughout history, God's people have been few in number, but we know from the teachings in the Bible that there has always been a remnant of true followers of God.

Jesus said, "By their fruits you will know them." (Matthew 7:16)

 

[McBell]

Most of Jesus' life on earth has been recorded in the gospels and New Testament.

Fail.
The Bible skips over most of Jesus' life.

 

[McBell]

Jesus said, "By their fruits you will know them." (Matthew 7:16)

With all the blatantly false information you have presented in this thread, what does that say about you?

 

[Shad]

Most of Jesus' life on earth has been recorded in the gospels and New Testament.

Which were made by anonymous authors decades after the event. More so one must draw a line between Jesus living as a human and Jesus son of God. I accept the former. I reject the later. No non-christian source confirms the later

Nothing is known about Muhammed. I think he's mentioned 4 times in the Quran, which was written centuries after the birth of Jesus.

Again there are other sources which I said you could read. Just because you expect Muhammad to be in the Quran more is not an argument. The Gospels are "biographies" while the Quran is a compilation of verses about God, believers, unbelievers, etc.

I was just pointing out there are earlier sources for Muhammad relative to his life than Jesus. It only confirms he was leader of a religious movement that had interaction with Byzantium and Persia not that he was in fact a real prophet. Again drawing that line between a person lived and all the God-speak, miracles, etc, actually happened

 

[viole]

Most of Jesus' life on earth has been recorded in the gospels and New Testament.

Not true. There is a big gap between Him being a baby and Him being a 30 years old or so man. There is not much about Jesus as a teenie, for instance.

Ciao

- viole

 

[katiemygirl]

"Shad, post: 4726652, member: 54361"]Which were made by anonymous authors decades after the event. More so one must draw a line between Jesus living as a human and Jesus son of God. I accept the former. I reject the later. No non-christian source confirms the later

You sure do have a warped view of the Bible. You've been listening too much to other people and have done no real research or thinking for yourself.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gospels.

Again there are other sources which I said you could read. Just because you expect Muhammad to be in the Quran more is not an argument. The Gospels are "biographies" while the Quran is a compilation of verses about God, believers, unbelievers, etc.

The Quran was written hundreds of years after the Old Testament was written, and 500 years after the New Testament was written.

I was just pointing out there are earlier sources for Muhammad relative to his life than Jesus. It only confirms he was leader of a religious movement that had interaction with Byzantium and Persia not that he was in fact a real prophet. Again drawing that line between a person lived and all the God-speak, miracles, etc, actually happened

There are plenty of credible sources, thousands of extant manuscripts, which tell the time of Jesus' birth. There are NO credible sources which say Muhamned was born before Jesus.

 

[katiemygirl]

="viole, post: 4726665, member: 52597"]Not true. There is a big gap between Him being a baby and Him being a 30 years old or so man. There is not much about Jesus as a teenie, for instance.

Big Deal! Was it important for us to know about Jesus' infancy and childhood. Not at all! What is important is to know the kind of man Jesus was. We know He was sinless. That is a big deal. We also know about His healings, miracles, love, teachings, etc. We know zippo, nada, nothing about Muhammed.

 

[McBell]

Big Deal! Was it important for us to know about Jesus' infancy and childhood. Not at all! What is important is to know the kind of man Jesus was. We know He was sinless. That is a big deal. We also know about His healings, miracles, love, teachings, etc.

So you have no problems with telling bold faced lies and merely brush them off as no matter?

Are you not the one preaching ""By their fruits you will know them." (Matthew 7:16)"

We know zippo, nada, nothing about Muhammed.

Your ignorance of the subject matter combined with your bold faced lies are most entertaining.

Though the truth be told, they are a rather put off when it comes to wanting anything to do with your deity.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote the gospels.

Why are they only named by scholars in around 200CE?

There are plenty of credible sources, thousands of extant manuscripts, which tell the time of Jesus' birth. There are NO credible sources which say Muhamned was born before Jesus.

Link us to some, then.

Was it important for us to know about Jesus' infancy and childhood. Not at all!

Why not?

We know He was sinless. That is a big deal.

He vandalizes, is racist, dishonors his family, breaks the Sabbath, etc.

We also know about His healings, miracles, love, teachings, etc.

Things that lots of people did. Many scenes are rather clearly referencing other prophets' accomplishments.

We know zippo, nada, nothing about Muhammed.

The Bible Reloaded guys started a Quran Reloaded. They are crass quite a bit but they do read and discuss the Bible on the Bible Reloaded channel and now the Quran on the Quran Reloaded channel. I know quite a bit about the Prophet Mohammad. Explain to me how the Word of God treats God and later Jesus as "guest stars" in their own books please. You'd think they'd appear more than they do, since the books are supposed to be about them...

 

[katiemygirl]

="Kelly of the Phoenix, post: 4727109, member: 58387"]Why are they only named by scholars in around 200CE?

Their names are mentioned throughout the New Testament.

Link us to some, then.

I'd be happy to just as soon as you link me to credible sources which say Muhammed was born before Jesus.

Why not?

You need to explain why you think it is so important for us to know about Jesus' childhood. Afterall, you are the one who brought it up.

He vandalizes, is racist, dishonors his family, breaks the Sabbath, etc.

That, of course, is your opinion. The Bible says Jesus was sinless. I believe the Bible. Even Muslims believe Jesus was sinless. "I am only a messenger of your Lord, to announce to you a faultless son" (Surah 19:19).

Things that lots of people did. Many scenes are rather clearly referencing other prophets' accomplishments.

Please cite a single credible source which names a person in history who was greater and who performed more miracles than Jesus did.

The Bible Reloaded guys started a Quran Reloaded. They are crass quite a bit but they do read and discuss the Bible on the Bible Reloaded channel and now the Quran on the Quran Reloaded channel. I know quite a bit about the Prophet Mohammad. Explain to me how the Word of God treats God and later Jesus as "guest stars" in their own books please. You'd think they'd appear more than they do, since the books are supposed to be about them...

I cannot speak for the Holy Spirit, who is the author of the Bible. You'd have to ask Him. Try praying about it.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'd be happy to just as soon as you link me to credible sources which say Muhammed was born before Jesus.

First of all you say we know next to nothing about Muhammad (false), and then you ask for refs. to Muhammad being born before Jesus (false, in worldly dates).
There is actually plenty of religious knowledge through Prophet Muhammad, peace be with him.
He was born roughly 500 years later, which doesn't make so much difference, but there are reams of books from the early Islamic civilisations. Why shouldn't they be as precious as the Christian ones?

 

[BilliardsBall]

I hear this all the time. "I'm good, therefore I'm going to heaven."

Really?

I would ask, why did Jesus bother to die on the cross then?

I agree.

1. Are you going to Heaven?
   
   
2. Why?
   
   
   
3. Are you perfect?
   
   
   
4. No one’s perfect. We’ve got a problem, don’t we?
   
   
   
5. For this, there is only one solution.
6. 
   It’s all about Jesus and trust is our natural response. Jesus Christ has done six vital things for us, took our sin, our guilt, our shame, received our punishment, He died on the cross to pay for our sin and He rose from the dead forever.
   
   There’s only one way that He tells us to go to Heaven, to place our trust in Christ, to trust in what He did: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish in Hell but have eternal life in Heaven." (or Romans 6:23)
   
   Just like we trust a bus driver to take us without our effort to a destination, we trust in Christ, and know assuredly we are going to Heaven.
   
   
   
7. Would you like to place your trust in Christ right now? (If you were to talk to God, what would you say to Him?)

 

[muhammad_isa]

Just like we trust a bus driver to take us without our effort to a destination, we trust in Christ, and know assuredly we are going to Heaven.

Hmm .. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed. I agree that people with faith in Almighty God will eventually go to heaven, but it's the "eventually" that concerns me .. avoiding major sins is very important. It's not always easy as there are many temptations.

How is it that you think that a person who commits sins without caring could reach the same destination as a person who is careful and contemplative?
Almighty God is the fairest of all judges .. although faith is the most important thing, deeds are also important. If our deeds are that bad, we could even lose our faith .. very dangerous