I am Israel

[HiddenDjinn]

whaaaaaaa?
:thud:



this is absolutely insane.
:areyoucra
only religion can make sense of this fantastical delusion...
and at what expense?
get over yourselves already....

I wasn't speaking from a religious perspective, but a pragmatic one. If you think there won't be another major conflict between Israel and, well, everyone, you're blind. The recent history of that small nation show that major war is a fact of life, and part of the price of its existence. What is insane is the thought that Israel will disappear or that there will be a peaceful resolution without another major war.

 

[Bismillah]

I am Israel when the P.A is at my feet powerless I am unable to make peace and instead point to Hamas.

I am Israel when I agree to posing Jerusalem as a final status issue I continue to displace its original inhabitants and replace them with my own.

I am Israel when I point to the treachery and murder by the hands of Hamas leadership I wipe the bloodstains of my leaders.

I am Israel, I feared the incarceration of my leader in Switzerland due to his direct role in the massacres of Sabra and Shatilla and as such avoided the place altogether.

I am Israel and peace is impossible as long as there is Palestinians, no two state, no one state, security above all.

I am Israel and when historians will look down and lament at the failure of a Palestinian state, Israel's hand will be obvious.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

I am Israel and peace is impossible as long as there is Palestinians, no two state, no one state, security above all.

You are every Arab state in the region who will not allow peace until the zionists are eradicated.


The fact is, both sides are responsible for horrendous acts of violence. Trying to finger point as to who is worse is a waste of keystrokes.

 

[Bismillah]

Where's the responsibility for the P.A? Since you are an obvious scholar why don't you explain to me why Palestine should agree to Israels preconditions for failure and above all why don't you explain to me the OK from the West for illegal colonistation of Arab land.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Where's the responsibility for the P.A? Since you are an obvious scholar why don't you explain to me why Palestine should agree to Israels preconditions for failure and above all why don't you explain to me the OK from the West for illegal colonistation of Arab land.

I was refering to Hamas actually, as far as the violence goes. However, it doesn't bode well for the palestinian people that allow Hamas to run rampant and use them for human shields. Seems to me if the Palestinians were seriously interested in peace, they would start with removing Hamas.

 

[Bismillah]

Isn't that nice. Makes you wonder why everyone who runs to Israel's defense always points the ominous finger at Hamas while ignoring the fact that Israel cannot make peace with the P.A.

So like I said justify illegal colonization of Arab land from a peaceful regime or don't bother.

Israel isn't looking for peace, its looking for land and the current fragmented state of Palestinian leadership was the direct result of Israeli policy and completely suites its needs.

It is also further hilarious that someone, so woefully uninformed, would say that Palestinians should remove Hamas when there is an ongoing Palestinian civil war

Palestinians shouldn't just remove Hamas, they should remove the P.A and the idiots who have kowtowed long enough to show the world that nonviolent negotiations are a shade less helpful than armed insurrection.

 

[England my lionheart]

I was talking to a Muslim aquaintance yesterday regarding Palestine,what was interesting and something i've noticed over the years is two words which he said regarding Palestine "God willing",considering that this conflict is over 70 years old does it mean God isn't willing,seems God doesn't seem to be interested.

 

[Bismillah]

What's interesting is that no one has answered my question.

God only helps those who help themselves.

 

[England my lionheart]

This from


Al Qassam website - Abu Obeida


He stated that we and all other revolutionaries of our nation and the free world are going on our way of Jihad and revolution against the occupiers and usurpers till the liberation of Palestine and the expulsion of the Zionist invaders, God willing,"

The above quote ends with the usual "God willing",there have been many such quotes over the many years of this conflict,i just wonder when the wishes of Abu Obeida don't come to fruition would he then think God isn't willing so its not meant to be or just hope God will be willing sometime in the future.

 

[England my lionheart]

What's interesting is that no one has answered my question.

God only helps those who help themselves.

Does that then mean that the Palestinians are not helping themselves as the only help (if you could call it that) they get is from Iran.

 

[Bismillah]

Why do you insist on using methods such as burying and point out refusal to answer a simple question.

 

[England my lionheart]

Why do you insist on using methods such as burying and point out refusal to answer a simple question.

Which question,the point i made is valid

 

[Flankerl]

whaaaaaaa?
:thud:



this is absolutely insane.
:areyoucra
only religion can make sense of this fantastical delusion...
and at what expense?
get over yourselves already....

Some people in germany would love you. Lets reclaim the Ostgebiete!

 

[David69]

Its amusing how big of a deal is made over Palestine/ Israel when the mass murdering and oppression of the Bosnian war is ignored. I would have thought Islam would have had more to say about the genocide there? Do you feel as strongly about the plight of Chechnya which is 94% muslim?

."

It is very important imo. Mashiach will not reveil himself until the jews and palistines are at peace. Look whats happening all around israel... everyone is getting wrid of the evil dictators that rule over them! Great start!!! But then the Jews fire rockets into palistine! I think those two nations should have a big think! They only have one year to make peace or the world is doomed!

 

[Flankerl]

It is very important imo. Mashiach will not reveil himself until the jews and palistines are at peace. Look whats happening all around israel... everyone is getting wrid of the evil dictators that rule over them! Great start!!! But then the Jews fire rockets into palistine! I think those two nations should have a big think! They only have one year to make peace or the world is doomed!

Are you for real?

 

[Rakhel]

Are you for real?

unfortunately, I think he is being very serious.

 

[David69]

Are you for real?

Are you? why the confusion?

 

[Badran]

Badran,
Population transfer is a legal action under the first Geneva Convention to ensure peace after a conflict. Moving hostile elements out of lands that have been taken in conflict, and receiving friendly elements from the lands taken and/or held by the enemy in the previous conflict. The problem, too much time has passed since Israel took lands that contains that hostile element. I fear it will take another major conflict to effect a peaceful population transfer and ensure longer term calm. I didn't say it was nice, but it's much more humane and civilized than what is happening now.

I think we need to add a couple of things to our consideration when thinking about any supposed solution for this conflict. For starters, we should consider that for any solution to work, it can't be totally serving one side's interests. Which is what i see this solution you're talking about to be, because its totally dismissing everything and only focusing on how to end this in Israel's best interest. I do realize you're considering certain advantages in this to Palestinians, however you missed out all the most important things which all this struggle is actually revolving around.

Another thing to be considered, is that there are people born into this conflict. If we keep looking at each group (the Jews, Palestinians or Arabs etc...) as each a whole bunch of people who did this and that, it'll be hard to be fair. People who were born into this have not done or contributed to a lot of that which have happened in the past, we can't deal with them as if them being part of that certain group somehow makes them share in the responsibility.

 

[Rakhel]

Here's something to consider.
Refuse all outside aide. American, Chinese, Russian, Syrian, Iranian, whatever and whoever. The land has proven it can stand on it's own and support those living on it. It will force both sides to work together it insure that all survive.

Or is this just to unrealistic?

 

[Badran]

Here's something to consider.
Refuse all outside aide. American, Chinese, Russian, Syrian, Iranian, whatever and whoever. The land has proven it can stand on it's own and support those living on it. It will force both sides to work together it insure that all survive.

Or is this just to unrealistic?

I don't think its unrealistic, the thing that must happen first for this (and pretty much any other good solution) to ever happen though, is that both do something serious about their leaders. By that, i mean that as an outsider, i don't see that either side's leaders or governments are actually doing what they should be doing for their people. Their leaders are leading them in the exact opposite direction of where they should be headed. I'm not too sure about how Israelis think about their government, but i assume a fair amount want an end to this problem, which their government isn't going anyway near.

Same story with Hamas, they fail to do elementary stuff that would spare it's people a lot. Neither Hamas or the Israeli government as they are seem to have it in them to work on the level you're talking about. So, if both sides managed to do some serious changes with the people that represent them and the policies they endorse, anything could happen.