I am Israel

[Bismillah]

I think what makes Palestine so important to Muslims is Arabs, Arab opinion and Arab involvement makes it a much more vocal subject than say Chechnya . After all Its in the Arab back yard and they really dont like the neighbours.

Given that Palestine has much higher hopes then Chechnya or even Kashmir for independence and given that the two parties are viewed as holding legitimate interests, I am surprised one hasn't noticed that it is simply practical to focus on Palestine, where the situation can change.

That said, since when did supporting Palestine exclude supporting any other cause?

 

[Majikthise]

Richard Goldstone. I asume you know the name?

 

[kai]

Given that Palestine has much higher hopes then Chechnya or even Kashmir for independence and given that the two parties are viewed as holding legitimate interests, I am surprised one hasn't noticed that it is simply practical to focus on Palestine, where the situation can change.

Practical or Arab agenda that has pushed it to the forefront, i wonder?


That said, since when did supporting Palestine exclude supporting any other cause?

It doesnt ,but check the forums for Palestinian threads compared to Chechen ones?

 

[Bismillah]

Practical or Arab agenda that has pushed it to the forefront, i wonder?

What do you think is more practical and realistic goal? Chechnya or sovereignty established for Palestine? I could care less for "Arab agenda" it is the last such agenda anyone could seriously think of.

U.N condemnation does some good in Palestine, but has zero affect in Russia.

 

[kai]

What do you think is more practical and realistic goal? Chechnya or sovereignty established for Palestine? I could care less for "Arab agenda" it is the last such agenda anyone could seriously think of.

U.N condemnation does some good in Palestine, but has zero affect in Russia.
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I think if it was the brothers and sisters goal to help each other they should have equal standing or maybe even a greater outcry at the greater outrage.

I still think its an Arab agenda to push Palestine to the forefront because its so near to Arab countries, Russia after all is far from the Arab mind.

 

[Chisti]

I don't see the Israel-Arab problem as an Israel-Arab problem at all. It's actually part of a larger problem called Western imperialism. Israel is simply doing what her masters in the west want her to do, which is to maintain a hold over the middle east.

 

[England my lionheart]

I don't see the Israel-Arab problem as an Israel-Arab problem at all. It's actually part of a larger problem called Western imperialism. Israel is simply doing what her masters in the west want her to do, which is to maintain a hold over the middle east.

You could be right in that its not an Arab Israel problem,the Arabs deserted Palestine a long time ago.

 

[darkendless]

You really ought to stop posting if you are going to reveal your complete ignorance on the topic.

Nationalism has everything to do with conflict, religion not so much.

Thats debatable. If anything, the conflict in question is more about religion than anything else.

 

[England my lionheart]

Thats debatable. If anything, the conflict in question is more about religion than anything else.

Absolutely,check out article 12 Hamas Charter:

Article Twelve:

Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed. Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land. Resisting and quelling the enemy become the individual duty of every Moslem, male or female. A woman can go out to fight the enemy without her husband's permission, and so does the slave: without his master's permission.
Nothing of the sort is to be found in any other regime. This is an undisputed fact. If other nationalist movements are connected with materialistic, human or regional causes, nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement has all these elements as well as the more important elements that give it soul and life. It is connected to the source of spirit and the granter of life, hoisting in the sky of the homeland the heavenly banner that joins earth and heaven with a strong bond.
If Moses comes and throws his staff, both witch and magic are annulled.

"Now is the right direction manifestly distinguished from deceit: whoever therefore shall deny Tagut, and believe in Allah, he shall surely take hold with a strong handle, which shall not be broken; Allah is he who heareth and seeth." (The Cow - Verse 256).​

 

[England my lionheart]

Article 13 isn't any better,how can there be any peace negotiation with people who don't want to negotiate,the Covenant is delusional at best.

Article Thirteen:

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Abusing any part of Palestine is abuse directed against part of religion. Nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its religion. Its members have been fed on that. For the sake of hoisting the banner of Allah over their homeland they fight. "Allah will be prominent, but most people do not know."
Now and then the call goes out for the convening of an international conference to look for ways of solving the (Palestinian) question. Some accept, others reject the idea, for this or other reason, with one stipulation or more for consent to convening the conference and participating in it. Knowing the parties constituting the conference, their past and present attitudes towards Moslem problems, the Islamic Resistance Movement does not consider these conferences capable of realising the demands, restoring the rights or doing justice to the oppressed. These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters. When did the infidels do justice to the believers?

"But the Jews will not be pleased with thee, neither the Christians, until thou follow their religion; say, The direction of Allah is the true direction. And verily if thou follow their desires, after the knowledge which hath been given thee, thou shalt find no patron or protector against Allah." (The Cow - verse 120).​

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. As in said in the honourable Hadith:

"The people of Syria are Allah's lash in His land. He wreaks His vengeance through them against whomsoever He wishes among His slaves It is unthinkable that those who are double-faced among them should prosper over the faithful. They will certainly die out of grief and desperation."​

 

[Flankerl]

I'm not well aware of how it worked in Europe, but as far as how its proposed in this case, i'm pretty sure its unfair. How do you feel about that? It being an unfair solution i mean? Or do you think its not unfair?

Well what was the last major war in europe? It worked.

And nothing in life is fair.

 

[Badran]

Well what was the last major war in europe? It worked.

I wasn't disputing whether or not it worked, i was saying that i'm not educated about the subject.

And nothing in life is fair.

I'm pretty sure there is fairness in life, may be however there isn't enough of it. For the most part, we determine how much fairness or unfairness there is.

At the very least, we have a say in it.

 

[waitasec]

You really ought to stop posting if you are going to reveal your complete ignorance on the topic.

Nationalism has everything to do with conflict, religion not so much.

oh please,
your nationalism is based on religion...
stop being dishonest

 

[RitalinO.D.]

I don't see the Israel-Arab problem as an Israel-Arab problem at all. It's actually part of a larger problem called Western imperialism. Israel is simply doing what her masters in the west want her to do, which is to maintain a hold over the middle east.

Spoken like a true extremist. You describe what Muslims have been doing for 14 centuries. Try not to fall off your high horse.

 

[David69]

As I stated earlier in the thread Chechnya was decimated by Russia in the first and second Chechnyan wars. In the second, the Russians shelled the hell out of Grozny and then made people leave so they could demolish the buildings. It sent Chechnya into economic ruin from which they still have not recovered. Chechnya is 94% muslim and yet we hear not a single world about this injustice from Islam members here. My point is that the muslim fascination with the Palestine/ Israel conflict is strange considering they completely forget a whole section of their brothers and sisters suffering in another area. I do not understand the fascination with hating the Jews but am not informed enough to make an assumption.

I dont understand it either. The jews have a tiny bit of land given to them by the brits after they done away with the ottoman empire... If it was up to me, I would give the jews syria too just beeen honest! :yes: most of religions were taken from the jewish religion and edited for personal gain! Thats not right in my book.
I'm not a jew btw but I know right from wrong!

 

[waitasec]

And nothing in life is fair.

as long as there are people in the world who want to control other people

 

[Chisti]

Spoken like a true extremist. You describe what Muslims have been doing for 14 centuries. Try not to fall off your high horse.

Who's occupying Iraq? Well, the US. Who's occupying the US or any western country? Oh wait...

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Who's occupying Iraq? Well, the US. Who's occupying the US or any western country? Oh wait...

You are comparing apples and oranges. Whether you view the presence of the US in Iraq a occupation or not is irrelevant. Did we go in and install an American to rule over the land? Did we install Christianity to their culture and repress Islam? No, that's what Muslims did during the first two Jihads, and had it not been for them being stifled at Vienna, it would have gone further.

Not to mention 75% of the US force that was there is now gone. The remaining forces are there as the request of the Iraqi gov't for security purposes, regardless of how sterile the gov't is. IMO we should have withdrawn completely but unfortunately I am not in charge of that operation. Don't get me started on Afghanistan, because I don't think we should be there either, but that's a different topic altogether.

As far as the OP goes, I've already stated that both sides are to blame. Finger-pointing accomplishes nothing.

 

[waitasec]

i just wanted to emphasis....

Did we go in and install an American to rule over the land? Did we install Christianity to their culture and repress Islam? No, that's what Muslims did during the first two Jihads, and had it not been for them being stifled at Vienna, it would have gone further.
Not to mention 75% of the US force that was there is now gone. The remaining forces are there as the request of the Iraqi gov't for security purposes, regardless of how sterile the gov't is.

:bow:

 

[Bismillah]

I think if it was the brothers and sisters goal to help each other they should have equal standing or maybe even a greater outcry at the greater outrage.

Equal moral standing? Yes. The reason, however, that you see a greater political interest is that there is some ability to CHANGE the situation in Palestine.

Are you telling me the U.N has the same authority in Russia as it does in Palestine?

your nationalism is based on religion...

One would have to completely misread my religion if they got any such sense of "Nationalism" out of it. Regardless I have posted many times that I am not "patriotic" of any one country as I cannot choose where I am born or live as I can my religion.

Absolutely,check out article 12 Hamas Charter:

Like I said EML, tell me when you are done blithering about Hamas and ready to talk about how Israel does the same exact thing in the W.B.

As I said, Israel is worse than Hamas and Hamas is a reactionary group borne out of Israeli actions.

Spoken like a true extremist.

Yeah? It is AMERICA that is supporting Israel through unconditional military aid to help them in the last for of colonisation in the world. Pathetic and inexcusable when future generations will examine this travesty.