*[I believe] Atheism is an absurd worldview

[McBell]

To create a purpose presupposes a purpose to begin with. That's why atheists cannot rationally justify their belief that each individual creates his or her own purpose. Any purpose you believe you create for yourself must ultimately be deemed illusory. Such is the absurd worldview that is atheism.

nothing but a list of bold empty claims.

Are you ever going to present an argument to counter or are you content posting your beliefs then whining about no counter arguments?

 

[Parsimony]

Just curious about your opinion, Gambit, but if humans were not created with a purpose or meaning, does that also mean that anything we create (such as cars, computers, books, etc.) are also without purpose or meaning? Can something meaningless give rise to something meaningful?

 

[Jumi]

Merriam-Webster defines "purposeless" as "aimless" and "meaningless."

I find it better to use language to communicate than to try to explain what your language means.

If you view the world as ultimately purposeless, then you view it as ultimately meaningless.

The world may not have meaning in itself, but you can make it mean something for you. The problem here is that you don't think humans have power to create meaning.

To "enjoy" is "to take pleasure in or satisfaction in" and to take pleasure in or satisfaction in implies an instrinsic purpose for which your atheistic worldview provides no rational justification.

There is no need for rational justification to find meaning. You may take things too literally though, I can imagine this not being something you would do.

 

[George-ananda]

The atheist denies the world has an ultimate meaning because they deny it has an ultimate telos or purpose. In fact, the atheist must deem any apparent purposeful behavior in the world is just that....apparent.

Yes, I'll agree with that in that they have to create their own purpose as the universe has no ultimate purpose. I guess though the best choice left for them then is to make the best of an unconcerned universe.

 

[George-ananda]

The atheist cannot find any meaning because his or her disbelief precludes the possibility.

Perhaps the word 'meaning' is not appropriate here? He creates his own goals and purpose, perhaps to enjoy life and perpetuate the ability for others to enjoy life.

 

[Willamena]

Atheism entails nihilism and absurdism.

I did some reading, and it seems three directions have been favoured as an outcome of absurdism. One is simply suicide, but since we don't see atheists chosing that we can safely dismiss it. Another is to adopt a godlike belief in an objective reality, which is actually pretty popular. For the antirealists, though, there is Camus, who proposes that what we do is simply accept the absurd and carry on. Reality isn't defined by ANY of our ideas about reality.

 

[savagewind]

I think that each person's belief in his or her faith is also an absurd world view. The reason is that the "world" can go in only one direction but each established creed is going towards its own end.

I believe Heaven has a purpose and until most of the world lines up with Heaven's purpose there is no world purpose.

 

[Gambit]

I see. So you are using absurd in the sense of meaningless only. Therefore your opening post is just wordplay circularly repeating itself with no meaning to be gained from it.

There is no wordplay. I explicitly used the term "meaningless" in the argument I presented in my original post.

 

[leibowde84]

The atheist cannot find any meaning because his or her disbelief precludes the possibility.

You still haven't backed up this seemingly erroneous claim.

 

[viole]

The atheistic worldview is an absurd one. Why? Because the atheist views the world as ultimately meaningless and therefore as absurd.

Yet, even if you were right, that does not entail that they are wrong in their conclusions. There is no logical sequitur between being miserable bacause of X and being wrong about X.

It actually supports the idea that people make up gods and cosmic meanings, interconnected consciousnesses, spiritual things, supervising agencies, or other things without evidence, just to avoid that fate. For many it could be, indeed, intolerable. And all this suggests that belief in the supernatural, and a universal teleology, or purpose, is probably a naturally selected trait that helped us getting old enough to trasmit a few genes upstream.

By the way. Most women feel joy when they get a flower, even if they are perfectly aware that it will land in the trash bin in a few days. Children also seem to be able to feel joy and happiness even without knowing what teleology is.

On a side note. May I ask what is so much better in the theistic worldview?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Quintessence]

You still haven't backed up this seemingly erroneous claim.

In fairness, they have... it's just the arguments bear a stunning resemblance to swiss cheese given the number of holes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Though I view atheism as another religious view with no real claims or evidence (although it really doesn't need any, but I still find claims of certainty to be arrogant), what I find to be absurd are views that god takes care of us, that god punishes the wicked in this life, and that we don't have to worry because god will make everything better. To say you're on your way to a better place has a serious potential for cheapening this life as well as neglecting responsibilities and obligations (such as towards the environment).

 

[leibowde84]

In fairness, they have... it's just the arguments bear a stunning resemblance to swiss cheese given the number of holes.

All I have seen is claims "backed-up" with more claims. Not really "support" in any way shape or form.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The atheistic worldview is an absurd one. Why? Because the atheist views the world as ultimately meaningless and therefore as absurd.

That's pretty sad.

 

[leibowde84]

The atheistic worldview is an absurd one. Why? Because the atheist views the world as ultimately meaningless and therefore as absurd.

All of the atheists I know certainly contradict your claim here. The existence of God is surely not necessary to find meaning in life. Just for example, think about providing for one's own children and wanting to provide a better life for them?

 

[Gambit]

Atheists can create whatever worldview they like and give it as much meaning as they like.

I could believe that the ultimate purpose in life is to collect as many lollipops as possible and the one who has the most lollipops when they die wins. If that is what I truly believe then my life has purpose

You can believe whatever you want. But the question is whether or not you can rationally justify your belief. You cannot rationally justify a belief in an ultimate purpose (a.k.a. final cause or telos) without invoking God. Therefore, if you hold such a belief, then you are holding an irrational belief.

 

[McBell]

You cannot rationally justify a belief in an ultimate purpose (a.k.a. final cause or telos) without invoking God.

another mantra of yours that is just plain flat out not true.

 

[Gambit]

I disagree with the context you're using for your definition, obviously. Going to refer you back to my first post where I told you I don't view the world as purposeless or meaningless. Just that purpose and meaning isn't set up by any sort of deity.

You cannot rationally justify a belief in a purposeful or meaningful world unless you invoke God. As such, your belief is irrational.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

Atheism entails nihilism and absurdism.

You assign values where those values are uncalled for and inappropriate. Again, you continue to confuse a statement of belief in divine beings with philosophy.

Nihilism, altruism, absurdism, etc; these are philosophies. None of these are out of reach for the nonbeliever. There are hedonist atheists, nihilist atheists, altruistic atheists. None of these, and hoards of other, philosophies are beyond the reach of an atheist. But as many philosophies are dynamically opposed, not one atheist can hold them all.

I can't hear someone say, "Oh, I'm a Christian" then assume to know everything I need to know about that person. Not all Christians are Republican Right Wing Creationist Pro-Life Homophobic NRA-member Capitalist .........

By the same token, you can't hear someone say, "I'm athiest" then conclude that we are Democrat Left Wing Evolutionist Pro-Choice Liberal Gun Grabbing Socialist Nihlist Hedonist.

Get it?

If you want to know what I believe, then ask.

But it seems to me that you are more interested in trying to get a rise out of people, and I'm just not in the mood for it.

See you in another thread; because I'm out of this one.

 

[Jumi]

You cannot rationally justify a belief in a purposeful or meaningful world unless you invoke God. As such, your belief is irrational.

But people already did before God was introduced.