*[I believe] Atheism is an absurd worldview

[OutOfTheDarkness]

If I had made them up it would be absurd. I like you am a finite, imperfect and mortal being that cannot possibly have all the answers and especially not about whether God exists or not. However if God a perfect, infinite and eternal Being affirms my testimony then it does carry authority. There is no authority on these kinds of questions without revelation. Attempts to convince merely on the basis of observation and deduction will always flounder.

Yet you use an observable, readable book as your only proof.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the case of mass murderers like Stalin or Mao we have 2 examples of atheists responsible for more deaths between them than all the religious wars in history.

This is a tricky thing to argue.
Stalin only became an atheist during his training as a priest (Tiflis Spiritual Seminary).
And then there's Hitler, raised Catholic, & remaining a Xian.

Let's just agree that evil can infect believers & nons alike.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

This is a tricky thing to argue.
Stalin only became an atheist during his training as a priest (Tiflis Spiritual Seminary).
And then there's Hitler, raised Catholic, & remaining a Xian.

Let's just agree that evil can infect believers & nons alike.

It's like painting all Germans like Hitler because he was German. Or all black people are saints because of Martin Luther King. It's a dumb argument. Individuals are just that. Individuals.

Atheists bring up the religious wrongdoings in *response* to the self righteous claim that God can do no wrong, and that his followers are always right. We say, what about this or that religious attrocity... and the immature response is always, well look at so and so who is Atheist.

No one claimed they did great things. Why not look at the religious atrocities, and say to yourself, "Hey wait... maybe this isn't so perfect after all."

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Merriam Webster defines "rational" as:

: based on facts or reason and not on emotions or feelings

: having the ability to reason or think about things clearly

Gambit will like this one...

... since God is based only on emotions and feelings, belief in God is not rational.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

If another god, through divine intervention, wiped all the Holy Bibles, printed and electronic, off the face of the Earth...

... how would the Christians then know what God wanted, and what hey had to do to get to heaven?

They rely solely on the printed word. A book. A material possession. All the philosophical nonsense and debate cannot escape that one single reality. Without the God manual, you cannot know how to worship properly. It is a man made construct.

Gambit doesn't believe in divine intervention... so how did his book come into being? Chicken or the egg.

 

[ArtieE]

No children can pray from a very early age and I have heard incidents of children doing this where no one told them to do it. I remember an atheist lady being very shocked when the mum of the child in question told her this before me. Biblically it seems there are multiple incidents of children reacting to God even from the womb (john the Baptist meeting Jesus), Samuel (hearing Gods voice without understanding that it was God talking to him). We all live in the same world and some are forever blind to its full dimensions and some are open to the spiritual world seen or unseen and some become aware of this wider realm in time.

You are not the only one with that opinion. "The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)" http://islam101.com/dawah/newBorn.htm

In the case of mass murderers like Stalin or Mao we have 2 examples of atheists responsible for more deaths between them than all the religious wars in history.

I'm afraid that is something you have to take up with your god.

"Romans 13:1 New Living Translation
Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God."

 

[mindlight]

Even your own book allows for false prophets and man being a lying sinner.

Orthodox Jews don't believe Jesus is the messiah, and they don't buy into your history, or the New Testament.

One group is completely wrong. Which is it?

A great many Jews did accept Christ and all the apostles were Jews for instance. Messianic Jews in Israel today believe the same. But Orthodox Jews like the Pharisees before them fail to recognise the Messiah in Jesus.

 

[mindlight]

Offer some proof up please, and I will easily refute it.

This isn't "The Secret", where you just put it out there and somehow it makes it real.

All atheists believe in horoscopes and aliens. That's news to me. This is the narrow minded, inexperienced world view living out of a book produces.

"All atheists"...?

 

[mindlight]

God's limits are actually defined by man interpreting a book. One person, or religious group claims a different interpretation... how do the religious determine the correct interpretation? Rock, Paper, Scissors?

The Nicene creed and the authority of scripture are pretty much universally accepted across catholic, orthodox, Protestant and Pentecostal interpretations of Christianity. The Unity is deeper than you recognise but the diversity is also there.

 

[mindlight]

So a friend of a friend of a friend of someone who used to go to high school with your third cousin said they saw a baby pray without any influence, because they were surgically attached to the parents 24/7 and can testify there was no influence?

Bunk.

The child prayed in front of us provoking the discussion between the atheist and his mum. His mum said he just did it. Noone showed him how. There are examples of prayer to God across the different religions expressed on this board.

 

[mindlight]

If another god, through divine intervention, wiped all the Holy Bibles, printed and electronic, off the face of the Earth...

... how would the Christians then know what God wanted, and what hey had to do to get to heaven?

They rely solely on the printed word. A book. A material possession. All the philosophical nonsense and debate cannot escape that one single reality. Without the God manual, you cannot know how to worship properly. It is a man made construct.

Gambit doesn't believe in divine intervention... so how did his book come into being? Chicken or the egg.

The oral tradition preceded the written one and many Christians today have memorised scripture. But what you are asking is about the connection between the church and scripture. Scripture testifies to the church and is formed by it. It was tested by the church as a whole and in accordance with the principle that it should witness to what the church believed about what God had said and revealed in history. God Himself was intimately involved in that process. The result is that the core 66 books are largely undisputed across the Christian world which now embraces a third of the worlds population.

 

[mindlight]

I'm afraid that is something you have to take up with your god.

The question here being why does God allow the wicked to prosper. Why does God allow a man the freewill to cause so much harm? Russia and China today have more Christians now than before the atheistic reigns of terror began might be one way of looking at this. Though clearly both countries are still recovering from the wounds of atheistic communism

 

[Jiddanand]

Bible is piracy. Read the Veda.

 

[ArtieE]

The child prayed in front of us provoking the discussion between the atheist and his mum. His mum said he just did it. Noone showed him how. There are examples of prayer to God across the different religions expressed on this board.

This is obviously conclusive evidence that the Hindus are right and that the child remembers a previous life where it had been a theist, not that God actually exists.

 

[ArtieE]

The question here being why does God allow the wicked to prosper. Why does God allow a man the freewill to cause so much harm? Russia and China today have more Christians now than before the atheistic reigns of terror began might be one way of looking at this. Though clearly both countries are still recovering from the wounds of atheistic communism

Yes of course that makes perfect sense. The God in the Bible drowns every undesirable on the planet. Then commands people to slaughter others.

1 Samuel 15:3
"New International Version
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"

And then he appoints leaders such as Hitler and Mao and Stalin to continue the good work of genocide. And this God is your role model?

 

[ArtieE]

God Himself was intimately involved in that process. The result is that the core 66 books are largely undisputed across the Christian world which now embraces a third of the worlds population.

There are an estimated 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, and they believe in the Quran. The Quran is also allegedly from the same god as your Bible. Do you believe in the Quran?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

The Nicene creed and the authority of scripture are pretty much universally accepted across catholic, orthodox, Protestant and Pentecostal interpretations of Christianity. The Unity is deeper than you recognise but the diversity is also there.

If there is diversity, only one of you may be right.

You cannot sugar coat it.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

The child prayed in front of us provoking the discussion between the atheist and his mum. His mum said he just did it. Noone showed him how. There are examples of prayer to God across the different religions expressed on this board.

Kids mimic their parents by observation all the time. Big deal. Depending on the age, they can also mimic friends and things on TV.

I can't believe I'm engaging this.

 

[ArtieE]

The question here being why does God allow the wicked to prosper. Why does God allow a man the freewill to cause so much harm?

The question is why God appointed them in the first place. They obviously were put there to do His will. Christians should admire them not vilify them...?

"Romans 13:1New Living Translation
Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God."

 

[mindlight]

This is obviously conclusive evidence that the Hindus are right and that the child remembers a previous life where it had been a theist, not that God actually exists.

I can see that a Hindu might interpret this like that.