I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

[John53]

In ancient times it was probably close to 100%. But each tribe, each culture, each empire or whatever all had different Gods. But they all believed. And sometimes had to believe or be killed.

True and to a lesser extent is true today, try being anything other than a Muslim in some Muslim countries. Which God you believe in mostly depends on where you were born.

 

[CG Didymus]

Exactly..
Those that claim that all we need to know is to love each other and Jesus died on a cross to save us all, does not explain the world we find ourselves in.
It makes zero sense.

How is it explained in Islam? And I'm sure there are those that believe very strictly, literally and conservatively... and those that are more liberal in their beliefs. Which, to me, brings up something important about religion... How to take the good things from it, but not necessarily having to take it all as absolute, inerrant truth. And, actually, that is one problem I have with Baha'is. They expect others to not take their beliefs so literally, but they take theirs as being the absolute, literal truth.

 

[CG Didymus]

True and to a lesser extent is true today, try being anything other than a Muslim in some Muslim countries. Which God you believe in mostly depends on where you were born.

And even today, and even with the Baha'i Faith, there are the "nominal" believers. I would suspect some Christian denominations are the worst. They have people that don't read the Bible and only show up for Christmas and Easter. Pretty soon that "84%" doesn't mean much.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, 84% of the population following thousands of different gods and millions of different interpretations each convinced they have the special knowledge and follow the one true god. That's exactly what I was talking about.

What I was talking about is that that many people believe in a God (or gods).
The point is that they all believe in an entity greater them themselves.
There is an easy explanation as to why they all believe in different Gods.

 

[muhammad_isa]

How is it explained in Islam?

Islam does not teach that a man came to save us by dying on a cross.
It does not claim that G-d is a man who taught us that love is blind.

 

[John53]

What I was talking about is that that many people believe in a God (or gods).
The point is that they all believe in an entity greater them themselves.

The point is at best only a small fraction got it right and God fails. For it to work it needs to be a simple easily understood message.

There is an easy explanation as to why they all believe in different Gods.

I agree but I'm sure my explanation is different to yours. Mine is... God is a man made concept.

 

[Triumph]

Caves are pretty useless as fallout shelters.

Yep. Definitely been Poed!

You should read up on your geo-political military studies. An amphibious assault on Taiwan is not practical, even for China, and an annihilation attack would be against China's interests (short and long term).

Not physically possible. Stop reading nonsense. It will rot your brain.

You talk about practicality ? China will not use a nuke on Taiwan because they want to use the land themselves, but missiles, yes. China can take their sub far from Taiwan and hit it undetected from the Pacific ocean, that's very practical.

The ballistic missile submarine is still considered the most secure leg of the nuclear triad (land-, air-, and sea-launched nukes). And sub-borne missiles have only increased in range, power and accuracy.
In 1979 in the USA came the navy's most trusted weapon—the Trident C4, which carried the payload to a distance of 4,600 miles. It meant a sub in the Pacific could hit ANY target in the Soviet Union.
Today, American Ohio-class and British Vanguard-class submarines are equipped with a sixth-generation Trident weapons system.
As the missile approaches, it ejects twelve independent warheads at different targets. Each warhead has a yield of 100 kilotons—six times greater than the Hiroshima bomb.

CHINA has the JL-3 submarine launched, that has a reported range of over 9,000 km (5,600 mi).
But Chinese and US sources report JL-3 ranges up to 7,500 mi (12,100 km)
The JL-3 is expected to carry multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles—warheads capable of targeting numerous separate locations.
China also has
Intercontinental Missiles

• DF-41
• DF-31AG
• DF-31A
• DF-31
• DF-5B
• DF-5
• DF-4

 

[CG Didymus]

Well, good so. If the latter might not be happy enough with Jesus, they might be after the wealthy ones. And that is the main reason Jesus promise of the last ones being the first ones, has been made up. Don’t you see it?

ciao

- viole

Exactly, they are told to be "happy" in their miserable conditions, because they will be rewarded greatly after they die. And some believers give up their wealth to live, poor, humble lives, because they seek that greater reward. But how true is it? There hope is that Jesus died for them. And paid the price for their sins. And that Satan and hell are real. And Jesus walked on water and rose from the dead and, the big one, Jesus is God. If we go by what Islam and the Baha'is say, that is a false teaching. And some of the other Christian beliefs they say are false also.

So those poor suckers that believed in their religion were probably happy, but what they believed in wasn't really true. That's why I think some religions can be nothing more than a placebo. The good feeling is all in the mind of the believer.

 

[CG Didymus]

Like all bible quotes... oh that bit isn't literal but the other bit is. Religion is the ability to force square pegs into round holes.

Yes, they have figured out the jigsaw puzzle. But if we look closely, they forced some of the pieces in, or a piece is in a space but there are gaps all around it.

And the biggest piece is God. Sometimes forced into a space. Sometimes put in to fill a space, but there's lot's of gaps all the way around where God is supposed to be filling everything. For lot's of people, God is a reasonable answer. But is he the best answer? Or, the only answer? Then the same thing with religions. Which fills the gaps in the puzzle the best? Is it perfect? Or, only good enough?

 

[Triumph]

Islam does not teach that a man came to save us by dying on a cross.
It does not claim that G-d is a man who taught us that love is blind.

People do not listen to Jesus when they say people are saved today by Jesus dying on a cross.
Jesus saved his disciples that were alive with him in the past because Jews were going to keep killing them unless Jesus was killed.

The world became doomed to future extinction in the day Jesus was killed for sins he did not commit.
Without Jesus to lead people into the true religion of God where no one kills people over their religious beliefs, there was nothing to stop the upcoming final war on Earth, nuclear WW3.
The King of all Kings is Radiation because no man, no matter how rich or how powerful, or what nation they lead or what religious beliefs they have, can stop huge amounts of smoke and radiation circling the globe expanding with more smoke and radiation day by day.

 

[Trailblazer]

The point is at best only a small fraction got it right and God fails. For it to work it needs to be a simple easily understood message.

It was not a failure on God's part. The messages of the past religions were all different because that is what humanity needed in those different ages and a simple easily understood message that everyone would recognize and understand was not what was needed in those ages.

Now we have a new easy to understand message that explains why there are so many different religions and it can be understood by all, but people choose to cling to the older religions so they continue to believe differently. Since man has free will nobody can blame God for what humans choose to do. Any failure to recognize the one true God and realize that one God revealed all the true religions is a human failure.

I agree but I'm sure my explanation is different to yours. Mine is... God is a man made concept.

Fat chance of that. Can you think of any 'logical reason' why man would make up the scriptures of all the religions and say they came from God?

 

[John53]

Fat chance of that. Can you think of any 'logical reason' why man would make up the scriptures of all the religions and say they came from God?

Yes to explain the world around him. Why did that earthquake kill my family, why did that flood ruin my crops, why are we in drought, why did that lightening bolt kill my son. Then our understanding of things grew and the stories were used to control the population. We all want something better, death is so permanent so a better existence after we die is an easy thing to want.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I am wealthy, and not miserable at all. Actually, I love doing what I want without any fear about financial independence. That myth that wealthy people are miserable is a myth so that you keep quiet and happy with your Jesus delusion, that you will be the first in some imaginary kingdom.

isn’t that obvious? Religion has always been a political thing. Even K. Marx clearly saw it.

don’t you see it?

ciao

- viole

I see nothing political about belief in God.
And it's obvious that many wealthy people are unhappy.

"New research shows the richer we get, the less happy we become. A study, published this month in the journal Nature Human Behavior, found that once we reach a certain household income -- $105,000 in the United States, $95,000 globally -- more income “tended to be associated with reduced life satisfaction and a lower level of well-being.”
The dark reasons so many rich people are miserable human beings

 

[Wildswanderer]

Relatively few, and statistically insignificant. And most converts seem to be either damaged in some way or serial converters, hopping from religion to religion, looking for an "answer" to a non-existent question. Cases of well-educated, well-adjusted, happy, comfortable atheists converting to religion are so rare as to be essentially non-existent.

I suspect there aren't many well adjusted and happy atheists to be converted. Being they are only 4 percent of the population, and most of those are likely poorly adjusted, angry atheists...

 

[Sand Dancer]

and most of those are likely poorly adjusted, angry atheists...

Why do you think that?

 

[Wildswanderer]

This makes no sense. It is just a meaningless platitude trotted out when people point out that god is responsible for the existence of evil.
How is evil "the absence of good"? How would that work? Do you really think that unless someone is actively going good, they are evil? Are you evil while you are asleep? Is "good" a tangible thing that we need to carry around with us, and if we lose it we become evil - a transformation we have no control over?

And even if we assume this to be true, it was god who created the condition whereby "the absence of good = evil", when he could have made it so "the absence of good = meh". So he is still responsible when a dictator commits genocide or a father rapes his daughters or homosexuals are murdered by right-wing extremists, etc.

So if I want my children to love me freely, I have to make their lives dangerous and unpleasant?
Sorry, but that is just weird.

More meaningless nonsense. If god had not created hate, then it would not have been part of the equation. Nothing is "necessary" for god. So many of these "arguments" by apologists imply that god is constrained by considerations external to him. You are basically saying that god had to create hate in order for love to work, which means that the interaction between love and hate exists outside of god's power, a brute fact that he is bound by.
Which would mean he isn't god.

Lol, God didn't create hate so why do you keep insisting he did? Hate is merely the absence of love, it's basically selfishness in action.
Yes if someone isn't actively trying to be good evil is the natural tendency.
If you want your kids to love you, forcing them to would not work.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Why do you think that?

Because most atheist on forums strike me as angry individuals.

 

[Wildswanderer]

God generally seems to favour well-educated, well-adjusted people in stable societies, and to dislike people born into poverty and social disadvantage.
Basically, god is a snob.

How do you figure? Lots of poor people are believers.

 

[Wildswanderer]

What makes you think wealthy people are miserable? Do you know any?
In my experience, not having to worry about money makes life less miserable.
Financial problems is one of the top causes of anxiety and relationship troubles.

It's statistically a fact.
Don't Envy the Super-Rich, They Are Miserable

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes, a very simple way to explain away evil. But who created a planet where earthquakes, tidal waves, tornadoes, forest fires, etc. exist? All harmful things to people. Things that I'd imagine would continue even if everybody loved God.

No in the renewed earth those will be no more. It will be a return to Eden. Nature groans because of the sin curse.