I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

[Trailblazer]

Yes to explain the world around him. Why did that earthquake kill my family, why did that flood ruin my crops, why are we in drought, why did that lightening bolt kill my son. Then our understanding of things grew and the stories were used to control the population. We all want something better, death is so permanent so a better existence after we die is an easy thing to want.

Fair enough, religion explains some things but it does not explain everything. Religion does not explain why that earthquake killed my family, why that flood ruined my crops, why are we in drought, why that lightening bolt killed my son, and it does not explain the things I was referring to in the OP: If God is fair and just, and God loves everyone, why do some people have it so easy whereas other people have such difficult lives?

There are many things that religion does not explain. Scriptures say that we have an afterlife but God leaves us hanging out to dry not knowing anything about that afterlife.

“As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346

So we religious people are supposed to worship a God and sacrifice our time for a God that cannot even be more specific than that? I know the reasons we are not told more but still, I cannot look forward to an afterlife I know nothing about, and it is not as if there is a return ticket.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because most atheist on forums strike me as angry individuals.

However, I do not think that atheists on forums are representative of atheists in the general population.

Think about it. If atheists are on a religious forum they are here for a reason, and many of them come here only to try to prove that believers are wrong about God and religion. Other atheists are here too, but you do not see them attacking believers because they do not need to prove that believers are wrong, since they are secure in their non-belief.

It is the so-called angry atheists who are the most vocal. It is all psychology.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Same old problem... What "God" has offered depends on who we're talking to and which religion and even what sect of a religion they belong to. Baha'is have some good teachings. But so do the other religions.

Then lets base our thoughts in the teachings that embrace unity of the entire human race.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oh, and your personal thoughts I wouldn't call "worthless". What you know. What you've been through. Why you believe what you do. I think those things would be very meaningful. I hope it's just you wanting to be humble and not wanting to compare your knowledge with God's. And really don't feel yourself to be so lowly and worthless.

Baha'u'llah, like the Manifestations of God gone before Him, offered that He is both the Voice of God and its human channel and said: “When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!”

Thus when I bind my own self to the teachings of Baha'u'llah, that is reflected in my thoughts and actions.

With the Message of Baha’u’llah there is no force in creation that can overcome that, but my body can and will perish and without that Message I am already dead. In saying that, that Message is reflected from all Messengers, so I am not offering people of other faiths can not also embrace that concept.

Regards Tony

 

[Triumph]

Yes to explain the world around him. Why did that earthquake kill my family, why did that flood ruin my crops, why are we in drought, why did that lightening bolt kill my son. Then our understanding of things grew and the stories were used to control the population. We all want something better, death is so permanent so a better existence after we die is an easy thing to want.

You explained it well before the real religion was brought to this planet to dispel all those fake made up deities.
The Bible shows Prophecy unlike many other religions and the prophecy in it is accurate.
Angels do not have feathers, that is a terrible representation of what the word Angel represents.
An Angel is a Pilot with a message. Some are on this planet that will fight in the final war, WW3 and some are from other planets that tried to guide people away from the causes of WW3. The "mercy seat "is where the pilot sits having the power of life or death to those beneath..

Eden represents the entire Earth, the Garden of Eden represents Peace. The day Abraham invented Adam and Eve and cast that fiction out into the world killing people that would not believe in his talking snake fiction he used to gain control over people, the world was never able to enter Peace again.
Peace=the Garden is guarded by 2 Cherubim which represent opposite sides of war willing to destroy the other .

The Bible describes a Cherubim and it is a duel blade attack helicopter like a Kamov-KA. The flaming sword is a missile.

18As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.
The eyes are DAS, described as eyes all around in the Bible because it allows the pilot 360 degree sight even through the helicopter itself.

19And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.

20Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

21When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.
The blades look like wheels in motion and they lift up the helicopter.

22And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
The crystal is the glass on aircraft, in front of the pilot.

23And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.
Blades are straight and are opposite each other attached at the rotor hub.

24And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.
When a Kamov-KA is at rest the blades do not remain straight out but they droop

25And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.
This is computer technology gained by DAS where the pilots receive information

26And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
This describes the headquarters that the pilot serves, commands from a Commander in Chief that sends orders via DAS and computer technology.
The pilot serves his country.

27And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
When the command to fire missiles is received the pilot with DAS can see beneath his seat, the fire of the launched missile and the bright light it creates.
The "2 faces" is the helmet full of technology and the natural face of the pilot. With the breathing mask a pilot with a white helmet looks like an eagle in profile.
The Joint Strike helmet looks like a calf/ox.

1- 10 of the book of Ezekiel describe the “four living creatures” The 4 represent the 4 causes of WW3 and each creature is the air force supporting their beliefs.
3 cry Holy because 3 causes, Jews, Muslims and Pauline Christians ("grafted in" Jews) are believing in Abraham, the man Jesus called the devil.
The 4th is China the rider on the Black horse of the Apocalypse, in WW3 only over desire for wealth wanting world economy to be based on their monetary system and trade restrictions, with no religion supported so their pilots = angels do not pray to God as they kill and do not say "Holy".

EXODUS 25:18 KJV "And thou shalt make two cherubims ... Those represent 2 different religions that grew supporting Abraham's 2 sons each vying for the throne willing to kill the other to gain eternal power. Those are Jews and Muslims facing each other on the Ark of destruction, war,, defying the Command of God to not kill, and both have militaries that have attack helicopters armed with missiles.
Peter called the human body a tabernacle. The temple is the fighter jet (the pilot = angel) or attack helicopter (the pilot = cherub).

 

[KWED]

I see the passage translates to the fact that in giving us the ability to love, the opposite of love is also possible.

The "opposite of love" is only possible if god created it that way. He didn't have to. He could have created the universe so that only degrees of love exist.

What is "the opposite of god"?

So why doe we choose war when Love is our goal, our capacity?

Because god created a universe that allows war, and created humanity with a capacity for it, obvs.
Really not rocket science.

 

[KWED]

Those that claim that all we need to know is to love each other and Jesus died on a cross to save us all, does not explain the world we find ourselves in.
It makes zero sense.

But a perfect, most merciful, most beneficent god who created the universe so that people could worship him, and he gets sooo angry when they don't that he created a special, eternal torture world for them, even though he always knew they wouldn't, even before he created them - that makes sense to you

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” - Stephen Roberts

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, you are saying that because you said if God knows the future, we have no free choice.
If we have to do what God knows we will do that means that what God knows is forcing us to do what God knows we will do and we have no choice but to do what God knows we will do so it means we have no free will to choose.

This is just wrong. If I watch Jurassic Park, I know the lawyer is going to run to the toilet and then get eaten by the T-rex. It's gonna happen every single time.

However, my knowledge of this is NOT what makes him run.

If God knows the future we sill have free choice. We can choose whatever we want to choose and God has always known what that will be because God's knowledge surrounds the realities of all things. Put another way, whatever we choose will be what God has always known we will choose. There is no logical connection between what God knows we will choose and what we choose, none at all. God is not in the material world bound by time as we are.

No.

If God knows today what shirt I am going to choose to wear tomorrow, I am not able to choose to wear a different shirt.

I did not say that good does not exist, I said that evil is the absence of good. Indifference is also not good but it is not as bad as evil. Evil is what someone does evil things, indifference is when one does not do anything at all when something needs to be done.

Evil requires some conscious act. Even if there is no good, you won't get evil unless that act is chosen. If there is no good, but no one chooses to be evil, then you are left with indifference.

How do you KNOW you know more than God about how to create a world and you could have created the world better? Have you ever created a world and do you know what it would entail? That would be like me saying I know how to build a house better than my building contractor when I do not know the first thing about building construction.

And if I answer this, what are you going to ask me next?

But how do you KNOW you know you know?

But how do you KNOW you know you know you know?

But how do you KNOW you know you know you know you know?

And so on? I've got better things to do with my time.

God created this world for a purpose. The reason we have to go through life in this world is explained in this book called The Purpose of Physical Reality.

Why do spiritual beings--human souls--begin their lives in the physical world? According to well-known Baha'i author, scholar, and educator John Hatcher, the world is a classroom designed by God to instigate and nurture mental and spiritual growth. The Purpose of Physical Reality examines the components of this classroom to show how everyday experience leads to spiritual insight. Viewing life in this way, we can learn to appreciate the overall justice of God's plan and the subtle interplay between human free will and divine assistance in unleashing human potential. The idea of physical reality as a divine teaching device not only prepares us for further progress in the life beyond, it also provides practical advice about how to attain spiritual and intellectual understanding while we are living on earth.

https://www.amazon.com/Purpose-Physical-Reality-John-Hatcher/dp/1931847231

I don't care. Each religion has people who claim they KNOW what the purpose of the world is, and they are all based on religious beliefs I find implausible at best and ridiculous at worst. You accomplish nothing by present a religious belief I don't share in an effort to try to explain it to me.

 

[KWED]

The point is at best only a small fraction got it right and God fails. For it to work it needs to be a simple easily understood message.

"Oh, but it is simple and easy to understand - if you truly accept my version of god with an open heart. Most people are just too arrogant or misled".
(Or words to that effect.)

 

[KWED]

You talk about practicality ? China will not use a nuke on Taiwan because they want to use the land themselves, but missiles, yes. China can take their sub far from Taiwan and hit it undetected from the Pacific ocean, that's very practical.

The ballistic missile submarine is still considered the most secure leg of the nuclear triad (land-, air-, and sea-launched nukes). And sub-borne missiles have only increased in range, power and accuracy.
In 1979 in the USA came the navy's most trusted weapon—the Trident C4, which carried the payload to a distance of 4,600 miles. It meant a sub in the Pacific could hit ANY target in the Soviet Union.
Today, American Ohio-class and British Vanguard-class submarines are equipped with a sixth-generation Trident weapons system.
As the missile approaches, it ejects twelve independent warheads at different targets. Each warhead has a yield of 100 kilotons—six times greater than the Hiroshima bomb.

CHINA has the JL-3 submarine launched, that has a reported range of over 9,000 km (5,600 mi).
But Chinese and US sources report JL-3 ranges up to 7,500 mi (12,100 km)
The JL-3 is expected to carry multiple independently targetable reentry vehicles—warheads capable of targeting numerous separate locations.
China also has
Intercontinental Missiles

• DF-41
• DF-31AG
• DF-31A
• DF-31
• DF-5B
• DF-5
• DF-4

China wants the infrastructure and population, not a smoking ruin. They see Taiwan as a part of China and the population as Chinese. The only way to achieve their goals is an amphibious assault which, as recent events have shown, would not be an easy task against a well equipped and motivated defence. They will not pulverise the island with ballistic missiles.

 

[KWED]

I suspect there aren't many well adjusted and happy atheists to be converted. Being they are only 4 percent of the population, and most of those are likely poorly adjusted, angry atheists...

Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. It was just an observation.

 

[KWED]

Lol, God didn't create hate so why do you keep insisting he did?

God created everything, or so I have been told by countless religionists.
So, as you claim he didn't, who else created stuff in the universe?

Hate is merely the absence of love,

Demonstrable nonsense. I do not love my accountant or my dentist, but neither do I hate them.

Yes if someone isn't actively trying to be good evil is the natural tendency.

That might be the case with you, but it isn't with most people. I would seek counselling.

If you want your kids to love you, forcing them to would not work.

I didn't say that. You claimed that god gets us to love him by making life difficult and unpleasant.
If a parent did that I would call social services.

 

[KWED]

How do you figure? Lots of poor people are believers.

Yes, but he visits hardship and suffering on them.
Why do you think he does that, while showering disbelievers with favour and bounty?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What is "the opposite of god"?

Godless.

Regards Tony

 

[KWED]

It's statistically a fact.
Don't Envy the Super-Rich, They Are Miserable

Did you just read the headline? From the second paragraph...
"Last year brought contrary research showing that more wealth did, in fact, make people more satisfied with their lives"
I understand why poor people might want to believe that having money they can't get wouldn't improve their lives. However, money does make life better - but it won't cure any deep-rooted emotional problems you have.

 

[KWED]

Godless.

So you accept that godlessness is necessary for there to be god.

 

[KWED]

No in the renewed earth those will be no more. It will be a return to Eden. Nature groans because of the sin curse.

 

[KWED]

Then lets base our thoughts in the teachings that embrace unity of the entire human race.

So we're back to the old "My religion is right and all the others are wrong" mantra again.
And of course, every other religion says that about yours. And we are back to square one again.

 

[KWED]

Baha'u'llah, like the Manifestations of God gone before Him, offered that He is both the Voice of God and its human channel and said: “When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!”

Thus when I bind my own self to the teachings of Baha'u'llah, that is reflected in my thoughts and actions.

With the Message of Baha’u’llah there is no force in creation that can overcome that, but my body can and will perish and without that Message I am already dead. In saying that, that Message is reflected from all Messengers, so I am not offering people of other faiths can not also embrace that concept.

Regards Tony

Are all your conversations just scriptural quotations and dogmatic platitudes?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The "opposite of love" is only possible if god created it that way. He didn't have to. He could have created the universe so that only degrees of love exist.

But God did create a world of opposites for us to exist in. As such Truth is relative to our level of understanding in this creation.

How do we know what is all the other worlds of God? There is more worlds that we can count, infinite.

Because god created a universe that allows war, and created humanity with a capacity for it, obvs.
Really not rocket science.

God created man with the capacity to choose Love.

So why do we still choose not to love, when the results of not loving all others can be seen, experienced and learnt from?

How clever we think we are, yet we still cannot Love to the extent that war is an unthinkable atrocity.

Regards Tony