I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

[John53]

There is a simple solution to that.... just get busy.
I cannot remember ever being bored, my problem is having enough time.
Then again I have a job, 8 cats and 3 houses, and a husband who expects me to do almost everything.

You never get bored doing mundane house hold chores? I know I do

 

[Trailblazer]

You never get bored doing mundane house hold chores? I know I do

No, because I hardly ever do any! How would I ever have the time?
I feed the cats and do litter boxes and I do the dishes but that's about it.

 

[John53]

No, because I hardly ever do any! How would I ever have the time?
I feed the cats and do litter boxes and I do the dishes but that's about it.

Well I'm polishing scratches out of a stainless steel sink so I don't die when the Mrs gets home from America in a month or so. It's boring.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well I'm polishing scratches out of a stainless steel sink so I don't die when the Mrs gets home from America in a month or so. It's boring.

My husband hardly does any chores. It was bad when I used to work in the office but it is worse now that I work at home. He stopped mowing the lawn six years ago when he retired and now he never even takes out the trash or does the dishes or vacuums or sweeps the floors. He scoops the litter boxes when he is up but that's about all he ever does, but I do those as much as he does. I do all the cooking and grocery shopping and he won't even leave the house unless I make him drive me to the store so the battery in his car won't go dead and then he sits in the car. He had an excuse during Covid but now he has no more excuses. I am kind of at my wits end but what can I do? We have been married for 37 years.

 

[Tiberius]

There is no logic to your position.

Since me and @muhammad_isa know what it means for God to be omniscient we have a leg up.

Since you do not know anything about what it means for God to be omniscient, you are flying blind.

An omniscient God is incompatible with free will.

 

[Tiberius]

...but what God knows is not what causes you to choose what you choose.

Why do you harp on and on about this when I have REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU that I am not claiming this?

 

[Tiberius]

And once again, I will point out to you the flaw in your idea.

Throughout all of eternity, God has known what shirt you will wear on Friday.

You do not decide what shirt you will wear on Friday until Thursday evening when you get your clothes ready for the next day.

Throughout all of eternity, God has known what your choice would be BEFORE you make it!

How does this work?

Scenario #1: Tibs wears the red shirt:

God on Monday: "Yeah, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the red shirt on Friday."

God on Tuesday: "Yeah, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the red shirt on Friday."

God on Wednesday: "Yeah, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the red shirt on Friday."

God on Thursday: "Yeah, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the red shirt on Friday."

Tiberius: *Decides to wear the red shirt with his pesky free will.*

God on Friday: "I always knew throughout all of eternity that Tibs was going to wear the RED shirt. That's what I said every day. I never said he'd wear the blue shirt."

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Scenario #1: Tibs wears the blue shirt:

God on Monday: "Yeah, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the blue shirt on Friday."

God on Tuesday: "Yeah, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the blue shirt on Friday."

God on Wednesday: "Yeah, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the blue shirt on Friday."

God on Thursday: "Yeah, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the blue shirt on Friday."

Tiberius: *Decides to wear the blue shirt with his pesky free will.*

God on Friday: "I always knew throughout all of eternity that Tibs was going to wear the BLUE shirt. That's what I said every day. I never said he'd wear the red shirt."

This doesn't work.

Here's why.

God on Monday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday."

God on Tuesday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday."

God on Wednesday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday."

God on Thursday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday."

Now, come Friday morning, I am standing in front of my closet deciding what shirt I am going to wear.

Am I able to choose to wear the RED shirt instead?

I mean, what if you tell me, "Hey, God told me that you're going to wear the blue shirt on Friday." Is there something stopping me from throwing out all of my blue shirts? Is there something stopping me from burning them all, just to prove God wrong?

Either I can wear the Red shirt, despite God knowing that I would not, or I have no free will.

 

[Tiberius]

That's right, he does not run because you know he is going to run so what makes him run?
It is in the script, but the lawyer would not have run unless he had chosen to run in the script.

He's a fictional character. How can he make choices? He literally has no experiences with which to base his choices on.

There is no today and tomorrow from where God exists since God does not exist in time.

God has always known throughout all of eternity which shirt you would choose to wear and you were able to choose any shirt you wanted to wear at any time (unless your girlfriend put it in the wash. )

That doesn't solve the problem, since I DO exist inside of time.

That's correct.

Then we are agreed. Evil is NOT simply the absence of Good, since evil requires an action, not just a lack of action.

A simple answer would suffice and then there would be no more questions.

I have verified to myself that I know more than God about creating worlds.

I said: God created this world with a purpose in mind and that is why it is the way it is.
Then you said: Except no one knows what this purpose is

Since you said that 'no one knows' what this purpose is, I was just explaining what I believe this purpose is. I don't expect you to agree with me.

You miss my point.

Some vague claim of, "Oh, there's a purpose for everything, we just don't know what it is," is nothing more than handwavium invoked to explain why bad things happen for no apparent reason.

 

[Tiberius]

No, it's the script writer and director. God is the writer and director. Except, to us, it's more like a reality show. It seems like we have choices, but that's the question... do we? Since it turns out exactly how God wants it to, it's hard for me to believe that it hasn't been thought out and scripted. Assuming there is a God.

This would eliminate free will.

 

[Trailblazer]

An omniscient God is incompatible with free will.

Dream on.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you harp on and on about this when I have REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU that I am not claiming this?

Because that is what you are claiming, even though you do not realize it.

 

[Tiberius]

Because that is what you are claiming, even though you do not realize it.

Oh, how lucky I am that I have TrailBlazer to tell me these things, for she knows my thoughts better than I do!

 

[Trailblazer]

This doesn't work.

Here's why.

God on Monday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday."

God on Tuesday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday."

God on Wednesday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday."

God on Thursday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the BLUE shirt on Friday."

Now, come Friday morning, I am standing in front of my closet deciding what shirt I am going to wear.

Am I able to choose to wear the RED shirt instead?

You will choose the BLUE shirt because you decided to choose the BLUE shirt, not because God knew you would choose the BLUE shirt. If you had chosen the RED shirt, God would have known that you were going to choose the RED shirt.

This is what it would look like if you had chosen the RED shirt:

God on Monday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

God on Tuesday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

God on Wednesday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

God on Thursday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

Now, come Friday morning, you are standing in front of your closet deciding what shirt you are going to wear. You will choose the RED shirt NOT BECAUSE GOD KNEW YOU WOULD CHOOSE THE RED SHIRT, but because you decided to choose the RED shirt.

God has always known from eternity that you would choose the RED shirt but what God knew had no bearing upon what shirt you decided to choose.

Either I can wear the Red shirt, despite God knowing that I would not, or I have no free will.

You are saying that what God knows is causing you to choose yet you deny that you are saying that.

Trailblazer: ...but what God knows is not what causes you to choose what you choose.

Tiberius: Why do you harp on and on about this when I have REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU that I am not claiming this?

You can choose to wear any color shirt you want to wear and whatever color shirt you decide to wear, that will be the color shirt that God has known from all eternity that you would choose to wear.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, how lucky I am that I have TrailBlazer to tell me these things, for she knows my thoughts better than I do!

I do not have to know your thoughts, all I have to know is what you wrote.
I just proved that is what you are claiming in this post:
#313 Trailblazer, A moment ago

 

[Trailblazer]

This would eliminate free will.

CG Didymus said: ↑
No, it's the script writer and director. God is the writer and director. Except, to us, it's more like a reality show. It seems like we have choices, but that's the question... do we? Since it turns out exactly how God wants it to, it's hard for me to believe that it hasn't been thought out and scripted. Assuming there is a God.

But everything does not turn out as God wants it to.
God wrote the script and we will act out that script, but everything in that script is not what God wanted, it is what we chose to do in order to act out the script God knew we would act out.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have verified to myself that I know more than God about creating worlds.

Fine, so maybe you also know how to destroy this world, and then you can recreate it to your liking.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..If I knew harm was going to happen to a child I would do my damnedest to prevent it..

Are you comparing yourself to G-d?
G-d is not a person.

Evil exists. If G-d did not exist, would that make everything "OK" in your eyes?

 

[John53]

Are you comparing yourself to G-d?
G-d is not a person.

Evil exists. If G-d did not exist, would that make everything "OK" in your eyes?

Not comparing myself to anyone or anything, I was answering a question asked of me.

God doesn't exist in my opinion so nothing would change.

 

[Tiberius]

You will choose the BLUE shirt because you decided to choose the BLUE shirt, not because God knew you would choose the BLUE shirt. If you had chosen the RED shirt, God would have known that you were going to choose the RED shirt.

This is what it would look like if you had chosen the RED shirt:

God on Monday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

God on Tuesday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

God on Wednesday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

God on Thursday: "Hey, Trailblazer, I have known throughout all of eternity that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

Now, come Friday morning, you are standing in front of your closet deciding what shirt you are going to wear. You will choose the RED shirt NOT BECAUSE GOD KNEW YOU WOULD CHOOSE THE RED SHIRT, but because you decided to choose the RED shirt.

God has always known from eternity that you would choose the RED shirt but what God knew had no bearing upon what shirt you decided to choose.

You are saying that what God knows is causing you to choose yet you deny that you are saying that.

Trailblazer: ...but what God knows is not what causes you to choose what you choose.

Tiberius: Why do you harp on and on about this when I have REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU that I am not claiming this?

You can choose to wear any color shirt you want to wear and whatever color shirt you decide to wear, that will be the color shirt that God has known from all eternity that you would choose to wear.

You miss the point.

On Monday, God comes to you and says, "Hey, TrailBlazer, I know for a fact that Tibs is going to wear the RED shirt on Friday."

Is there ANY POSSIBLE WAY I would be able to choose to wear the BLUE shirt instead?

YES or NO please.

 

[Tiberius]

CG Didymus said: ↑
No, it's the script writer and director. God is the writer and director. Except, to us, it's more like a reality show. It seems like we have choices, but that's the question... do we? Since it turns out exactly how God wants it to, it's hard for me to believe that it hasn't been thought out and scripted. Assuming there is a God.

But everything does not turn out as God wants it to.
God wrote the script and we will act out that script, but everything in that script is not what God wanted, it is what we chose to do in order to act out the script God knew we would act out.

If God knew what we would do anyway, why bother writing the script?

Seems to me that this is just like me writing: "TrailBlazer threw the ball in the air. It went up, and then it came down and bounced on the ground." I then wait for you to throw the ball, and when it does, I say, "Look, I wrote that it would happen, and it did! The ball fell back to the ground because I wrote it in my script!"