I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer

[darkendless]

I would not argue pink elephants. I would not argue many things. How is God supposed to be nice? We are but a spec of creation.

Some seem to think that God created everything for man and then stopped. Man was the last thing.

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

We are the care takers of this world and have not done a good job of it. Does the Bible not tell of bad times to come. This is nothing new and in the end God or none we will be removed from existence. That is the way of things.

People have been putting things off on god's for a long time. Ya know if we did not abuse the earth as we do and controlled ourselves then most of these issues would not be issues. All of us would live in safer regions.

God provided the earth and we know how it works. If the earth had a cold core the magnetic field would be such that man could not have made it. Blame God for not protecting people? Blame man for not living up to God's expectations.

If you feel that there are issues with where people live then take in a family as you should don't blame God. For every issue you present I can present a counter argument throwing it back on man not doing as he should.

Why speak for a God which is beyond our understanding?

How do you know God provided the Earth? What do you know of God's expectations?

God doesn't get off scot free just because we don't live up to impossible expectations. Human nature inhibits us from living a sinless life. So therefore, we can blame God for our suffering because his standards are practically unattainable.

 

[Archer]

Why speak for a God which is beyond our understanding?

How do you know God provided the Earth? What do you know of God's expectations?

God doesn't get off scot free just because we don't live up to impossible expectations. Human nature inhibits us from living a sinless life. So therefore, we can blame God for our suffering because his standards are practically unattainable.

Actually most don't even make an effort. How can you blame one who through his emissary (SON JESUS) has taught that love is the ultimate answer. We don't listen! We could make an effort and we don't even do that.

If you took God out of the equation then it is the fault of man for not being humane. We allow those in poverty to stay that way. We know from historical evidence where disasters are more likely to strike but what do we do? If man would only listen to the words in the Bible we would help those people and get them away from those areas. We would not have vast military's for war we would have armies of rescue. We would not have one country starve while the other complains about being too fat.

Your conclusion is not acceptable to me.

 

[painted wolf]

Some seem to think that God created everything for man and then stopped. Man was the last thing.

Says your book.

We are the care takers of this world and have not done a good job of it. Does the Bible not tell of bad times to come. This is nothing new and in the end God or none we will be removed from existence. That is the way of things.

That is the what your myths tell you. Mine says something quite different.

People have been putting things off on god's for a long time. Ya know if we did not abuse the earth as we do and controlled ourselves then most of these issues would not be issues. All of us would live in safer regions.

My religion has been telling you that for hundreds of years.

God provided the earth and we know how it works. If the earth had a cold core the magnetic field would be such that man could not have made it. Blame God for not protecting people? Blame man for not living up to God's expectations.

Hard for a newborn to live up to anyone's expectations.

If you feel that there are issues with where people live then take in a family as you should don't blame God.

Who ever said I blame God?

For every issue you present I can present a counter argument throwing it back on man not doing as he should.

Yes, but only on bald assertion. Your book doesn't convince everyone.

wa:do

 

[darkendless]

Actually most don't even make an effort. How can you blame one who through his emissary (SON JESUS) has taught that love is the ultimate answer. We don't listen! We could make an effort and we don't even do that.

If you took God out of the equation then it is the fault of man for not being humane. We allow those in poverty to stay that way. We know from historical evidence where disasters are more likely to strike but what do we do? If man would only listen to the words in the Bible we would help those people and get them away from those areas. We would not have vast military's for war we would have armies of rescue. We would not have one country starve while the other complains about being too fat.

Your conclusion is not acceptable to me.

Of course its not because you've been wired to think otherwise.

I can blame him because he ultimately failed. Christians are terrible adherants to his words. Look at their hate for gay people. They're either hypocrites or just poor christians. Either way i don't care.

Its still humanities fault but since God is unfortunately part of the problem, people always have and will fight over him. He's like an older brother watching his younger brothers fight for his approval. Sadistic really.

The funny thing is that no one in their right mind would take the bible as complete. It contains contradictory statements and isn't exactly up to date on how things work.

 

[Archer]

Of course its not because you've been wired to think otherwise.

I can blame him because he ultimately failed. Christians are terrible adherants to his words. Look at their hate for gay people. They're either hypocrites or just poor christians. Either way i don't care.

Its still humanities fault but since God is unfortunately part of the problem, people always have and will fight over him. He's like an older brother watching his younger brothers fight for his approval. Sadistic really.

The funny thing is that no one in their right mind would take the bible as complete. It contains contradictory statements and isn't exactly up to date on how things work.

For most of your post I must agree. The Christian community has damaged itself. It need not change with the times but also it needs to realize that people change over time. I never have liked homosexuality and people know this it does not make me think any less of those people who are homosexual because although I am not gay, I am still no better.

The Bible is a complete work of philosophy and it can not address today directly but the basics are the same.

 

[MSizer]

..

The Bible is a complete work of philosophy and it can not address today directly but the basics are the same.

No, it's not, it's loaded with contradictions and false claims. The old testament taught that the jews were supposed to fear god and strive to emulate him, while the Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven will be realized by first loving god, and secondly loving our neighbors. That's impossible. Even you archer pointed out that we let people in other parts of the world starve. We're biologically primed to do that. Our success as a living species depended directly on outgroup hostility, therefore we wouldn't even exist now if we didn't have the trait built into us to experience contempt for those not like ourselves. Jesus' whole claim was purely speculative, and has been shown to be flat out impossible due to our socio-biological makeup. But then again, why should we trust 2000 years of philosophy and science over the opinion of one man from the stone age?

 

[Archer]

No, it's not, it's loaded with contradictions and false claims. The old testament taught that the jews were supposed to fear god and strive to emulate him, while the Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven will be realized by first loving god, and secondly loving our neighbors. That's impossible. Even you archer pointed out that we let people in other parts of the world starve. We're biologically primed to do that. Our success as a living species depended directly on outgroup hostility, therefore we wouldn't even exist now if we didn't have the trait built into us to experience contempt for those not like ourselves. Jesus' whole claim was purely speculative, and has been shown to be flat out impossible due to our socio-biological makeup. But then again, why should we trust 2000 years of philosophy and science over the opinion of one man from the stone age?

You know I am going to disagree so no need to explain

 

[Peacewise]

No, it's not, it's loaded with contradictions and false claims. The old testament taught that the jews were supposed to fear god and strive to emulate him, while the Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven will be realized by first loving god, and secondly loving our neighbors. That's impossible. Even you archer pointed out that we let people in other parts of the world starve. We're biologically primed to do that. Our success as a living species depended directly on outgroup hostility, therefore we wouldn't even exist now if we didn't have the trait built into us to experience contempt for those not like ourselves. Jesus' whole claim was purely speculative, and has been shown to be flat out impossible due to our socio-biological makeup. But then again, why should we trust 2000 years of philosophy and science over the opinion of one man from the stone age?

Fearing God and striving to be like God, loving God and loving neighbor's are not mutually exclusive hence they are possible to achieve. These concepts are not contradictory.

Cooperation has more to do with our success as a species than 'outgroup hostility' and this is often overlooked check out non violence at Academic Earth, Berkley University lectures, if you want to learn up about this concept. History has been recorded with a series of snap shots of violence and tends to not record the peaceful events, todays news media is one example of this.

you asked... "Why should we trust 2000 years of philosophy and science over the opinion of one man from the stone age?"
I think you will find that the stone age was long over in the Middle East and North Africa during Jesus' life time, just as an aside. However why should we trust him, I don't suggest that 'we' trust him, however the kinds of things that Jesus spoke about are to do with humanity and God and both of these are timeless so in general what is said about them in the past has meaning for today and into the future. For instance men have always hated or loved or strived or been apathetic or resented authority or accepted authority, lied or told the truth.

 

[Reverend Rick]

But then again, why should we trust 2000 years of philosophy and science over the opinion of one man from the stone age?

Because we can.

 

[isobella]

So I am responsible for the actions of my children? I mean I created them in a way? No God set the world in motion he does not control man.

Hi Archer. =)

How come this god seems to know so little about his own creations, i.e. humans? A few lessons in biology could have made a profound impact. Why didn't this god simply explain that the brain is the only organ in an unfinished state at birth (ready for wiring), and that it is extremely fragile and susceptible to damage and stress. If damaged, or if a child is not given the proper care/nurture, it can lead to social/behavioral issues.

Science has clearly shown that damage to specific areas of the brain can lead to behavioral problems. It is also known that tumors in specific areas of the brain can also lead to behavior that can cause much suffering. Serial killers and mass murders, for example, have been found to have tumors or neurological/mental disorders. I'd show you a graph but I am unable to post URL until I've made my quota.

Imagine if this god didn't encourage 'othering' - tribal mentality.

Imagine if this god didn't have enemies. This 'perfect' god has enemies, created them, and knew about them and the outcome before all hell broke loose.

Imagine if this god taught its creation about biology/physiology/neurology - that people can become highly addicted to their own biological pharmacy, i.e., dopamine which can also lead to immoral behavior. How about neurological disorders that lead to hyper-religiosity causing both the amygdala and hippocampus to atrophy in size (as much as 50 %), thus causing further behavioral problems.

Imagine if this god taught about the the importance of a bonding chemical hormone/neurotrasmitter called oxytocin?

> Oxytocin reduces cravings. When scientists administered it to rodents who were addicted to cocaine, morphine, or heroin, the rats opted for less drugs, or showed fewer symptoms of withdrawal. (Kovacs, 1998)

> Oxytocin also reduces cravings for sweets. (Billings, 2006)

> Oxytocin calms. A single rat injected with oxytocin has a calming effect on a cage full of anxious rats. (Agren, 2002)

> Oxytocin counteracts the effects of cortisol, the stress hormone. (Legros, 2003) Less stress means increased immunity and faster recovery.

> Oxytocin appears be a major reason that SSRIs (like Prozac®) ease depression.

Science doesn't know it all, but clearly neither does this god. Omniscient? Knows everything from the beginning to the end? Is the Alpha and the Omega?

Imagine if this god had simply given oral and/or written instruction providing its followers the necessary tools, education, and awareness needed to prevent unnecessary suffering. It is in ignorance that the innocent suffer needlessly. IMO, there is no respect due in willful ignorance.

Odd that the Middle East (hub of 3 major religions), can't seem to get a grip on peace, love and all that jazz.

Power in the blood?

 

[Archer]

Hi Archer. =)

How come this god seems to know so little about his own creations, i.e. humans? A few lessons in biology could have made a profound impact. Why didn't this god simply explain that the brain is the only organ in an unfinished state at birth (ready for wiring), and that it is extremely fragile and susceptible to damage and stress. If damaged, or if a child is not given the proper care/nurture, it can lead to social/behavioral issues.

Science has clearly shown that damage to specific areas of the brain can lead to behavioral problems. It is also known that tumors in specific areas of the brain can also lead to behavior that can cause much suffering. Serial killers and mass murders, for example, have been found to have tumors or neurological/mental disorders. I'd show you a graph but I am unable to post URL until I've made my quota.

Imagine if this god didn't encourage 'othering' - tribal mentality.

Imagine if this god didn't have enemies. This 'perfect' god has enemies, created them, and knew about them and the outcome before all hell broke loose.

Imagine if this god taught its creation about biology/physiology/neurology - that people can become highly addicted to their own biological pharmacy, i.e., dopamine which can also lead to immoral behavior. How about neurological disorders that lead to hyper-religiosity causing both the amygdala and hippocampus to atrophy in size (as much as 50 %), thus causing further behavioral problems.

Imagine if this god taught about the the importance of a bonding chemical hormone/neurotrasmitter called oxytocin?

> Oxytocin reduces cravings. When scientists administered it to rodents who were addicted to cocaine, morphine, or heroin, the rats opted for less drugs, or showed fewer symptoms of withdrawal. (Kovacs, 1998)

> Oxytocin also reduces cravings for sweets. (Billings, 2006)

> Oxytocin calms. A single rat injected with oxytocin has a calming effect on a cage full of anxious rats. (Agren, 2002)

> Oxytocin counteracts the effects of cortisol, the stress hormone. (Legros, 2003) Less stress means increased immunity and faster recovery.

> Oxytocin appears be a major reason that SSRIs (like Prozac®) ease depression.

Science doesn't know it all, but clearly neither does this god. Omniscient? Knows everything from the beginning to the end? Is the Alpha and the Omega?

Imagine if this god had simply given oral and/or written instruction providing its followers the necessary tools, education, and awareness needed to prevent unnecessary suffering. It is in ignorance that the innocent suffer needlessly. IMO, there is no respect due in willful ignorance.

Odd that the Middle East (hub of 3 major religions), can't seem to get a grip on peace, love and all that jazz.

Power in the blood?

I think the instructions you want are in the new testament.

 

[isobella]

I think the instructions you want are in the new testament.

How so? I've studied it for years, and to my knowledge I see nothing that would indicate that Jesus knew anything more about his own biology, much less others.

Jesus said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." Matt 10:34

 

[Beta]

How so? I've studied it for years, and to my knowledge I see nothing that would indicate that Jesus knew anything more about his own biology, much less others.

Jesus said "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." Matt 10:34

Most people judge GOD and even Jesus according to their own understanding of them. Human understanding is primarily based on matter and the material for that is how and what we are and can do no other.
However, God IS SPIRIT and in order to change MAN from matter (and material thinking) to that of spirit requires a different approach from us.
Look on it as taming a wild creature. You can not do that just by speaking to them , so much more comes into play before you even win their cautious confidence much less their love and trust.
The Word of God (Bible) contains EVERYTHING God had ordained for the creation and completion of mankind from Matter to spirit. It is our own extremely limited comprehension (and disobedience) that delays this process .
Jesus came to bring a sword - but what for ? Heb.4v12 , to the dividing asunder of body and spirit which in our human state are at odds with each other. How so ? Ps.51 says we need a NEW spirit (Mind) in us.
But I get ahead of myself. Basically our present way of thinking and reasoning are not right with God. Should a wild creature fear a benevolent human ? Should a human fear (doubt, suspect, blame, question his integrity,) God ?

 

[Skeptisch]

Hey Mike, that certain evolutionary biologist, you wondered whether he killed God, had this to say:

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

 

[Bick]

To MSizer and others with similar views.

Would you believe in a God who would send his willing Son to become a human, and allow him to be tortured and crucified on a cross?

Would you believe in a God who foresaw the fall of man and the death and suffering that would follow, yet, to show His great love, and for mankind to someday understand it, sent his Son to be the sacrifice whereby all mankind will be redeemed?
Yes, through the ages there is death, evil and misery, but manily from man on man.
Yet, in His Word we are told that someday, at the end of the ages, the last enemy Death, will be abolished, and with no death, no sin. Read 1 Cor. 15:22-28, and Hebrews 9:26.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

To MSizer and others with similar views.

Would you believe in a God who would send his willing Son to become a human, and allow him to be tortured and crucified on a cross?

No.

Would you believe in a God who foresaw the fall of man and the death and suffering that would follow, yet, to show His great love, and for mankind to someday understand it, sent his Son to be the sacrifice whereby all mankind will be redeemed?

No.

Yes, through the ages there is death, evil and misery, but manily from man on man.

So, what of events like the pacific tsunami? Or the Haiti earthquake?

Yet, in His Word we are told that someday, at the end of the ages, the last enemy Death, will be abolished, and with no death, no sin. Read 1 Cor. 15:22-28, and Hebrews 9:26.

We're also told that a donkey talked. What's your point?

 

[Danmac]

It's funny how atheists lay the blame for suffering at the feet of a God they say doesn't exist. If God doesn't exist, then where in the world did this concept originate?

 

[The_Evelyonian]

It's funny how atheists lay the blame for suffering at the feet of a God they say doesn't exist. If God doesn't exist, then where in the world did this concept originate?

It's called the "argument from evil"

The idea is this:

Either God wants to abolish evil and cannot,
or he can but does not want to,
or he cannot and does not want to,
or lastly he can and wants to.

If he wants to remove evil, and cannot,
he is not omnipotent;
If he can, but does not want to,
he is not benevolent;
If he neither can nor wants to,
he is neither omnipotent nor benevolent;
But if God can abolish evil and wants to,
how does evil exist?

 

[Super Universe]

I consider the explanation for the problem of evil using free will to be an ignorant one, but even if it were true, many innocent people, including children and non-human animals suffer as a result of things not caused by the free will of humans.

Babies were partially crushed and suffocated in collapsed buildings in Haity recently. A God who could allow such a thing is a horrific character IMO, and one to whom I could ever show any respect, no matter the consequences.

How do you justify worshipping a God who allegedly allows this?

How do you justify letting it happen? What did you do to stop it?

Have you led an awareness program to increase the building standards in third world countries?

This is YOUR planet. Humans are YOUR people. You just want everything done for you.

 

[logician]

It's funny how atheists lay the blame for suffering at the feet of a God they say doesn't exist. If God doesn't exist, then where in the world did this concept originate?

What atheists are laying the blame for suffering at a supposed god's feet?

Suffering is an unfortunate occurence, either thru random natural catastrophies, or deliberate war, is has nothing to do with nonexistent gods.