I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer

[The_Evelyonian]

Warning: This post contains graphic images.

God could stop all suffering in this world.

So what's stopping him?

What makes you think that suffering is bad? Can you define suffering? Can you describe what eternal impact suffering of finite duration has on the eternal soul? Since you're assuming the God of the Bible exists, you need to also assume the eternal nature of the soul.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Any god who has the power to stop things like this and won't do it, is evil.

 

[Scott C.]

The contradiction goes like this:

Can an omniscient god find the omnipotence to change his future mind?

Basically the logic of it is thus:

If god is omniscient then he already knows every instance in which he will interfere in the affairs of man, and there is nothing he can do about it.

God can't change his mind because, if he did so, he would have already known in advance and thus, really wouldn't be changing his mind but simply doing that which he already knew he was going to do.

God is trapped by his own powers. In a sense, he has no free-will. If god is omniscient, then he can't be omnipotent.

Sounds sort of like the question "if God is omnipotent then can he make a rock too heavy for him to lift? If yes, then he's not omnipotent (he can't lift the rock). If no, then he's not omnipotent (he can't make the rock). It's a silly question to me. It's like asking can God be smarter than himself.

 

[Scott C.]

Any god who has the power to stop things like this and won't do it, is evil.

We all experience some degree of physical, emotional, psychological, or spiritual pain during our mortal life. For some it's very severe, like those in your pictures. Nevertheless, I ask the question again: Based on the plan of the God of the Bible, what is the long term (eternal) impact of this suffering on these people? Will there be an eternal net gain or net loss for having passed through such suffering?

 

[The_Evelyonian]

We all experience some degree of physical, emotional, psychological, or spiritual pain during our mortal life. For some it's very severe, like those in your pictures. Nevertheless, I ask the question again: Based on the plan of the God of the Bible, what is the long term (eternal) impact of this suffering on these people? Will there be an eternal net gain or net loss for having passed through such suffering?

Depends on what you believe about the biblical god.

Now, you answer my question.

If god has the power to stop these things then what is he waiting for?

 

[Scott C.]

Depends on what you believe about the biblical god.

Now, you answer my question.

If god has the power to stop these things then what is he waiting for?

God allows suffering for spiritual growth. God specifically created this world as a place where we would suffer by design and rejoice by design. Here we develop character. In eternity, our past mortal suffering will be as a nano-second with infinite reward and growth. It's worth it. (Now that's not to say that we should intentionally impose suffering on oursleves or others).

I think what you're doing is thinking like an atheist. You see life as ending at death. You don't believe in God. So, when you play the "I believe in God for the sake of argument" game, you're failing to allow yourself to look at the bigger implications of eternity and the impact of this brief mortal experience (what we call life) on eternity.

You insist that suffering is evil because you are imagining that God exists, but that he's governing finite people who once they are dead, they are dead. There is no more. I think you're being half believer and half atheist in your assumption concerning the existence of God. When you imagine that God is real, you need to get completely out of the "mortal life is it" box.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

God allows suffering for spiritual growth. God specifically created this world as a place where we would suffer by design and rejoice by design. Here we develop character. In eternity, our past mortal suffering will be as a nano-second with infinite reward and growth. It's worth it. (Now that's not to say that we should intentionally impose suffering on oursleves or others).

I think what you're doing is thinking like an atheist. You see life as ending at death. You don't believe in God. So, when you play the "I believe in God for the sake of argument" game, you're failing to allow yourself to look at the bigger implications of eternity and the impact of this brief mortal experience (what we call life) on eternity.

You insist that suffering is evil because you are imagining that God exists, but that he's governing finite people who once they are dead, they are dead. There is no more. I think you're being half believer and half atheist in your assumption concerning the existence of God. When you imagine that God is real, you need to get completely out of the "mortal life is it" box.

And yet you fail to realize that someone who believes that Jesus is the only way to god would tell you that those who don't accept Christ as savior burn in hell forever regardless of their condition in life. That person would tell you that those people in the photos I posted would suffer endlessly in the next world unless they accept Christ.

So, see, you believe in a system where people are rewarded for having suffered. Others don't. You accuse me of allowing my beliefs to colour my view and then do the very same thing. Different people believe different things about it but really, what lies beyond death is irrelevant to the issue of suffering.

Anyone trying to argue that god is just would have a hard time making that argument simply because of all of the suffering and evil in the world. You yourself have painted an incredibly evil god. One who knew exactly what satan would do and yet created him anyway. One who (by virtue of his omniscience) knew Adam and Eve would fall and yet placed the tree in the garden anyway. One who then punished them for violating a command that he already knew they were going to violate when he gave it.

The god you have postulated is evil at best and psychotic at worst. Either way he isn't a god worth worshiping.

-Peace-

 

[Scott C.]

And yet you fail to realize that someone who believes that Jesus is the only way to god would tell you that those who don't accept Christ as savior burn in hell forever regardless of their condition in life. That person would tell you that those people in the photos I posted would suffer endlessly in the next world unless they accept Christ.

So, see, you believe in a system where people are rewarded for having suffered. Others don't. You accuse me of allowing my beliefs to colour my view and then do the very same thing. Different people believe different things about it but really, what lies beyond death is irrelevant to the issue of suffering.

Anyone trying to argue that god is just would have a hard time making that argument simply because of all of the suffering and evil in the world. You yourself have painted an incredibly evil god. One who knew exactly what satan would do and yet created him anyway. One who (by virtue of his omniscience) knew Adam and Eve would fall and yet placed the tree in the garden anyway. One who then punished them for violating a command that he already knew they were going to violate when he gave it.

The god you have postulated is evil at best and psychotic at worst. Either way he isn't a god worth worshiping.

-Peace-

I would have to repeat myself to rebut this last post. -Peace also and goodnight -

 

[logician]

God allows suffering for spiritual growth. God specifically created this world as a place where we would suffer by design and rejoice by design. Here we develop character. In eternity, our past mortal suffering will be as a nano-second with infinite reward and growth. It's worth it. (Now that's not to say that we should intentionally impose suffering on oursleves or others).

I think what you're doing is thinking like an atheist. You see life as ending at death. You don't believe in God. So, when you play the "I believe in God for the sake of argument" game, you're failing to allow yourself to look at the bigger implications of eternity and the impact of this brief mortal experience (what we call life) on eternity.

You insist that suffering is evil because you are imagining that God exists, but that he's governing finite people who once they are dead, they are dead. There is no more. I think you're being half believer and half atheist in your assumption concerning the existence of God. When you imagine that God is real, you need to get completely out of the "mortal life is it" box.

1. You have proven nothing about the existence of an afterlife.
2. Suffering is real, and your so-called benevolent god allows it to exist.
3. A much better explanation is that there is no god, and suffering is a natural occurence of nature, of deliberate outcome of war. :sad:

 

[painted wolf]

Regardless of the existence of god... suffering challenges us to think beyond ourselves and accept our duty to our fellow humans. Complaining about god not fixing it does nothing.

wa:do

 

[Scott C.]

1. You have proven nothing about the existence of an afterlife.
2. Suffering is real, and your so-called benevolent god allows it to exist.
3. A much better explanation is that there is no god, and suffering is a natural occurence of nature, of deliberate outcome of war. :sad:

I wasn't trying to prove that God exists. Once again, if God exists and if what the Bible says about God is true, then suffering has a purpose and God is good. This thread starts with the assumption that the God of the Bible exists.

 

[Danmac]

Warning: This post contains graphic images.



So what's stopping him?



A picture is worth a thousand words.

Any god who has the power to stop things like this and won't do it, is evil.

So do all the wealthy people around the world. Maybe God wants to use billionaires to stop world hunger, but they refuse to heed his suggestion. I guess they need more toys. What are you doing to stop world hunger?

 

[The_Evelyonian]

So do all the wealthy people around the world. Maybe God wants to use billionaires to stop world hunger, but they refuse to heed his suggestion. I guess they need more toys. What are you doing to stop world hunger?

so billionaires are more powerful than the omnipotent creator? Billionaires won't play ball so god just decides to do nothing and let people starve and suffer horribly?

As for me, I donate to charities but that's beside the point. I'm not a supposedly omnipotent being who could end the world's suffering with a snap of my fingers (and neither are the billionaires).

So I'll ask again: If god has the power to stop the world's suffering then what the hell is he waiting for?

 

[Danmac]

so billionaires are more powerful than the omnipotent creator? Billionaires won't play ball so god just decides to do nothing and let people starve and suffer horribly?

As for me, I donate to charities but that's beside the point. I'm not a supposedly omnipotent being who could end the world's suffering with a snap of my fingers (and neither are the billionaires).

So I'll ask again: If god has the power to stop the world's suffering then what the hell is he waiting for?

The umbrella is not to be blamed if a man refuses to use it when it rains.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

The umbrella is not to be blamed if a man refuses to use it when it rains.

So, an omnipotent god who has the power to end the world's suffering with nothing more than a thought on his part, won't do it because the billionaires won't write checks. Millions of people have to suffer and die in conditions that we wouldn't subject an animal to, all because the wealthy elite are just too damned greedy. Never mind the fact that god is all-powerful but seemingly couldn't care less; it's all the rich people's fault.

Yep, Danmac, that's sounds like a real loving god you got there.

 

[Danmac]

So, an omnipotent god who has the power to end the world's suffering with nothing more than a thought on his part, won't do it because the billionaires won't write checks. Millions of people have to suffer and die in conditions that we wouldn't subject an animal to, all because the wealthy elite are just too damned greedy. Never mind the fact that god is all-powerful but seemingly couldn't care less; it's all the rich people's fault.

Yep, Danmac, that's sounds like a real loving god you got there.

God works thru invitation. There is an evil force that is destructive. That force is not God. God would love to offer his protection against that evil force, but people like you prefer to go it alone.

Lu 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

 

[The_Evelyonian]

God works thru invitation. There is an evil force that is destructive. That force is not God. God would love to offer his protection against that evil force, but people like you prefer to go it alone.

Oh, I see.

So the child wanted to "go it alone", is that it?

The Jews murdered in the Holocaust wanted to "go it alone"?

On 9/11 do you think that they wanted to "go it alone"?

It's time to face facts, Danmac.

Your god, if he exists, is either impotent or just doesn't ******* care.

What kind of loving father watches his children dying and refuses to intervene?

 

[Beta]

So I'll ask again: If god has the power to stop the world's suffering then what the hell is he waiting for?

We need to know God's plan for mankind to understand what God is doing. There is a biblical explanation but knowing human nature they won't grasp it but blame God.
God set out a plan for us before he ever literally created us 1Pet.1v20 gives a hint. How can we know his plan ? by being obedient , those who are disobedient to him are the wicked and the ones causing the world's troubles and suffering. God has allowed man self-determination for 6000 years - enough time to make or brake us.
What we are seeing in the world is the result of human rule and God does not break his own promise to us Ex.20v9. So this world's suffering is due to human rule and is to show us how bad we are at it.
We are now at the very end of our allotted time when the biggest tribulations have been predicted that this world has ever seen. Much worse is to come yet my friend before man will be convinced of his own failures and to admit it before God.
It most certainly grieves our Creator to see what we are doing but a promise is a promise and if God broke it what would we have learned ???

 

[Beta]

God works thru invitation. There is an evil force that is destructive. That force is not God. God would love to offer his protection against that evil force, but people like you prefer to go it alone.

Lu 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

YOU have got the picture my friend ! If there were more like you with a respectful attitude to God we would not have this suffering people are so quick to blame on God.
Very few people realize that HUMAN REASONING is the cause of all evil or should I say supports the existence of evil. Disobedience to God is a hidden sin and as punishable by death like any other sin so that people die without ever understanding why. Man can not know all sins until God shows them to us and that can only happen through obedience. A natural man is an enemy of God Rom.8v7.
That is Bible-teaching

 

[The_Evelyonian]

We need to know God's plan for mankind to understand what God is doing. There is a biblical explanation but knowing human nature they won't grasp it but blame God.
God set out a plan for us before he ever literally created us 1Pet.1v20 gives a hint. How can we know his plan ? by being obedient , those who are disobedient to him are the wicked and the ones causing the world's troubles and suffering. God has allowed man self-determination for 6000 years - enough time to make or brake us.
What we are seeing in the world is the result of human rule and God does not break his own promise to us Ex.20v9. So this world's suffering is due to human rule and is to show us how bad we are at it.
We are now at the very end of our allotted time when the biggest tribulations have been predicted that this world has ever seen. Much worse is to come yet my friend before man will be convinced of his own failures and to admit it before God.
It most certainly grieves our Creator to see what we are doing but a promise is a promise and if God broke it what would we have learned ???

Exodus 20:9 - "Six days you shall labor and do all your work."

What promise?

Okay, so the wicked people are responsible for the suffering? How convenient.

"Well, I'd love to help end the mass death and agony but all those people are just so gosh darn wicked. What? Take the suffering people into consideration? Why in My name would I do a thing like that?"

Wickedness or not, facts are facts. We have a supposedly omnipotent god who (again supposedly) is loving, just, caring, and merciful. Yet the world is filled with death and destruction on a massive scale and god hasn't lifted a finger.

Something is very wrong with this picture.

It's all well and good to put the evil in the world off on the bad people but then, who created the bad people? Who created the devil? Who gave the devil free-will? Who started this whole mess all the while knowing what was going to happen? All roads lead to Rome.

The bad people, the devil, free-will; none of it matters. None of it changes the fact that we have a supposedly omnipotent god who refuses to act.

Any father who can just sit back and watch his children suffer and die is no father at all, and certainly not one who could ever be called loving, merciful, caring, or just.

You say it grieves the heart of god that his children suffer? His grief isn't worth spit. If he has the power to stop this and he won't do it then he's evil.

What have we learned about god from all of this suffering? I'd say we've learned plenty about his character.

What would we learn about god if he stepped in and put a stop to it? That he actually gives a damn.

Like I told Danmac: God, if he exists, is either impotent or he just doesn't care.

 

[The_Evelyonian]

YOU have got the picture my friend ! If there were more like you with a respectful attitude to God we would not have this suffering people are so quick to blame on God.
Very few people realize that HUMAN REASONING is the cause of all evil or should I say supports the existence of evil. Disobedience to God is a hidden sin and as punishable by death like any other sin so that people die without ever understanding why. Man can not know all sins until God shows them to us and that can only happen through obedience. A natural man is an enemy of God Rom.8v7.
That is Bible-teaching

For consideration...

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