I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer

[Smoke]

You are quite right. Had man been created good he could not have been otherwise.
When scripture says that everything God created was good he referred to the material/physical creation - not our Mind or character. I believe that side was completely neutral in order for man to exercise his free choice hence the 2 trees. Satan was in the forbidden tree and God's character in the tree of Life .

I don't think I quite said that friend since scripture says to choose the good and hate evil. Not choosing evil automatically means choosing good without having to specify it ??? I assumed that was understood. :sorry1: for any misunderstanding.

You contradict yourself, unless you mean that babies exercise their free will to choose good.

 

[Beta]

Nobody said anything about robots or not having free will.

Do you agree that it's possible to be good?
Do you agree that it's possible to choose good?

I mentioned robots because that would be our lot if we had no free will.
With God's help man can be good and
with God's help we can choose to do good.
No natural-minded human can do this by himself as a way of life only as a very minimal basic beginning. But then God must be allowed to step in and help by asking him for it. :help:

 

[Smoke]

Because human ways are after the influence of satan and suffering and are the opposite of God's ways which are good and rewarding.

But why are human ways after Satan's ways? And why is Satan evil?

How did evil come to be? How did God's creatures come to be such that they prefer evil to good?

 

[Smoke]

I mentioned robots because that would be our lot if we had no free will.
With God's help man can be good and
with God's help we can choose to do good.
No natural-minded human can do this by himself as a way of life only as a very minimal basic beginning. But then God must be allowed to step in and help by asking him for it. :help:

I'm not suggesting that God should have made us without free will. I'm all for free will.

But if we can't choose good by ourselves, we don't really have free will, do we?

 

[Beta]

You contradict yourself, unless you mean that babies exercise their free will to choose good.

Sorry I don't follow you.
Man was created neither good or evil. This was presented in the 2 trees and God commanded man NOT to eat of the forbidden tree. Mankind disobeyed and thus took on evil-mindedness.
How can Babies have a conscious free will to CHOOSE good or bad. Their Mind is not sufficiently developed to make such conscious decisions. One needs knowledge and experience of life which Babies and young children don't yet have.

 

[Smoke]

Sorry I don't follow you.
Man was created neither good or evil. This was presented in the 2 trees and God commanded man NOT to eat of the forbidden tree. Mankind disobeyed and thus took on evil-mindedness.
How can Babies have a conscious free will to CHOOSE good or bad. Their Mind is not sufficiently developed to make such conscious decisions. One needs knowledge and experience of life which Babies and young children don't yet have.

Earlier, you said that babies are good. Are they good, or neutral, or do they have "evil-mindedness"?

 

[Beta]

I'm not suggesting that God should have made us without free will. I'm all for free will.

But if we can't choose good by ourselves, we don't really have free will, do we?

Let me put it this way friend , there is HUMAN good and there is GOD's good and the two are not the same.
Choosing our own good would mean we don't need God and therefore would not share his eternal Kingdom. One can't do one's own thing and still expect heaven which belongs to God.
If you just want to live and die by all means choose your own good. If you want a future with God then obey and follow Him, choose God's good.
I can't put it any simpler.

 

[Smoke]

Let me put it this way friend , there is HUMAN good and there is GOD's good and the two are not the same.
Choosing our own good would mean we don't need God and therefore would not share his eternal Kingdom. One can't do one's own thing and still expect heaven which belongs to God.
If you just want to live and die by all means choose your own good. If you want a future with God then obey and follow Him, choose God's good.
I can't put it any simpler.

Okay, but that doesn't change anything.

If we can't choose God's good on our own, then we don't really have free will.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Why are babies good? Are they unselfish and virtuous? Do they choose to do good?

They are innocent. God has given us a grace period. One where we can learn good and bad. They are very unselfish. Children know what unconditional love is. No matter what they're parents do wrong, they think they are superheros. I know one little girl who her father yelled at her all the time. Even for the slightest things. But she loved him with all her heart. She never saw him as the bad guy. Just someone who has a lot of stress.

And children are closer to doing good than many adults. We are to teach them good habits and the right way to live. And when we show them love, they will do anything to make their parents happy, meaning being obedient and heeding to their parents. Children will reflect their upbringing and home life. When children do bad, most often than not, they are mimicking what they see their parents reflect.

 

[Smoke]

They are innocent.

Are innocent and good the same thing?

They are very unselfish.

How many infants and children have you known?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Are innocent and good the same thing?


How many infants and children have you known?

I work with children a lot within my church. Was a youth leader for years. Wrk with children's choirs. Im 1 of 10 kids. Have 16 neices and nephews. 2 godchildren. And plan to have my own. LOL So ive known many a child.

And yes. Innocence is an essence of good.

 

[Beta]

Earlier, you said that babies are good. Are they good, or neutral, or do they have "evil-mindedness"?

Am I to take you serious friend or are you having fun ?
I said Babies had no sin !
They are just natural Human Beings without ulterior motive or conscious thought to choose or do good or evil. They do not make conscious decisions one way or another until much older. They just act for their natural wellbeing and comfort while young.
I am going to leave this particular subject there as it's not specifically detailed in scripture and guesswork only leads to error.

 

[Smoke]

Am I to take you serious friend or are you having fun ?

I'm just asking you to explain what you believe.

I said Babies had no sin !
They are just natural Human Beings without ulterior motive or conscious thought to choose or do good or evil.

So does that mean neutral?

 

[Smoke]

I work with children a lot within my church. Was a youth leader for years. Wrk with children's choirs. Im 1 of 10 kids. Have 16 neices and nephews. 2 godchildren. And plan to have my own. LOL So ive known many a child.

And yes. Innocence is an essence of good.

Okay. So while Beta seems to believe children are born neither good nor evil, you believe they are born good. Is that correct?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Either way it goes, we're given a period of time where we can grow and learn what is good and what is evil. Then its time to stop blaming someone else for our mistakes. We have to take responsibilty for our own choices.

 

[Smoke]

Either way it goes, we're given a period of time where we can grow and learn what is good and what is evil.

So you don't know whether we're born good or neutral or evil, and you don't know why God made in such a way that we tend to choose evil. Is that correct?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Okay. So while Beta seems to believe children are born neither good nor evil, you believe they are born good. Is that correct?

I repeat. Innocence is an essence of good. So in a way, yes. Children are good. They go bad later in life. HAHA I believe children are closer to God than many adults, because children know what true love is. They know how to unconditionally love. And God is love.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

So you don't know whether we're born good or neutral or evil, and you don't know why God made in such a way that we tend to choose evil. Is that correct?

I dont know why God did and does a lot of things. LOL Im not Him. He didnt make us more apt to choose evil. We do it ourselves because we're more into pleasing the flesh and self than being servants to our fellow man. That isnt God's fault. Its ours.

 

[Smoke]

He didnt make us more apt to choose evil. We do it ourselves because we're more into pleasing the flesh and self than being servants to our fellow man. That isnt God's fault. Its ours.

But if we're not by nature more apt to choose evil, why do we always choose to make ourselves that kind of person?
If God made us equally likely to choose good or evil, wouldn't there be a lot of people who choose to be good?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

But if we're not by nature more apt to choose evil, why do we always choose to make ourselves that kind of person?
If God made us equally likely to choose good or evil, wouldn't there be a lot of people who choose to be good?

Again, we choose to feed the flesh. Because it feels good. We dip our toes in the water. See how cool it is, then want to dive head first in. LOL Sometimes, it has to do with our upbringing. Other times, we dabble until we're knee deep in and cant seem to get out.

But just because we make bad choices at times, doesnt make us evil.