I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer

[Peacewise]

So you don't know whether we're born good or neutral or evil, and you don't know why God made in such a way that we tend to choose evil. Is that correct?

I believe that everyone chooses good and evil at separate times of their lives, expressing their free will. As such it's just as accurate to ask why we tend to chose good?

However I'd take just a shot in the dark regarding why some chose evil, and that would be because they don't think it's evil.

So where do you stand Smoke? Do you have free will? Are you good? Have you ever chosen evil?

If God exists and has given us free will, do you respect that choice of His?

 

[Beta]

But why are human ways after Satan's ways? And why is Satan evil?

How did evil come to be? How did God's creatures come to be such that they prefer evil to good?

Simple questions with long answers. Adam and Eve followed temptation in opposition to God. Satan does not want man to come out on God's side but end up dead instead. Satan would deny man eternal life besides causing us untold suffering .That is evil - it is not loving the next man.
If you read Isah.14v12-17 and Ezek.28v13-17, you can get some ideas of satans /Lucifers history.
Why do humans prefer evil to good ? Because satan approaches man through feelings and emotions which are tender and sensitive and also inflate the human ego with self-satisfaction. God is more inclined to speak to us through the Mind without all the emotional baggage that causes man to doubt and falter.

 

[Smoke]

Again, we choose to feed the flesh. Because it feels good. We dip our toes in the water. See how cool it is, then want to dive head first in.

But what makes us the kind of people who choose what feels good over what's good?

I believe that everyone chooses good and evil at separate times of their lives, expressing their free will. As such it's just as accurate to ask why we tend to chose good?

Are we just as likely to choose good as evil?

However I'd take just a shot in the dark regarding why some chose evil, and that would be because they don't think it's evil.

If a person doesn't know the difference between good and evil, is he responsible for his choice? Why would God make people such that they don't know the difference, and then hold them accountable for not knowing?

So where do you stand Smoke? Do you have free will? Are you good? Have you ever chosen evil?

I'm not sure whether we have free will, but if not, the illusion that we do is very strong. I am not consistently good or consistently evil. I have chosen evil before.

If God exists and has given us free will, do you respect that choice of His?

I respect his choice to give us free will. I do not respect his choice to make us such that we don't have the ability to consistently choose good. Why should I? If there is a Creator, he has made us as we are. If he blames us for the way he has made us, he is either a fool or a monster.

 

[Smoke]

Simple questions with long answers. Adam and Eve followed temptation in opposition to God. Satan does not want man to come out on God's side but end up dead instead. Satan would deny man eternal life besides causing us untold suffering .That is evil - it is not loving the next man.
If you read Isah.14v12-17 and Ezek.28v13-17, you can get some ideas of satans /Lucifers history.
Why do humans prefer evil to good ? Because satan approaches man through feelings and emotions which are tender and sensitive and also inflate the human ego with self-satisfaction. God is more inclined to speak to us through the Mind without all the emotional baggage that causes man to doubt and falter.

But none of you are answering the question of why God made humans such that we wish to choose evil.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

I believe its a combination of things. Upbringing, life experiences, formed habits. Or us just simply wanting to be rebels. lol

 

[LyricalDutchess]

But none of you are answering the question of why God made humans such that we wish to choose evil.

You're not seeming to get that we're telling you He didnt create us that way.

 

[Smoke]

You're not seeming to get that we're telling you He didnt create us that way.

Then who created us?

Or are you saying that some of us don't wish to choose evil, and that there are some people who are sinless?

 

[Beta]

I'm just asking you to explain what you believe.


So does that mean neutral?

I don't know for sure. I would say they are innocent of good or evil not having knowledge of one way or another and for some time unable to comprehend. Can we not leave it there seeing the Gospel is for adults, men and women, not Babies and small children. God takes care of them .

 

[Just_me_Mike]

But none of you are answering the question of why God made humans such that we wish to choose evil.

Answer is, the only people that were created to not wish for evil were Adam and Eve. Everyone else would know both good and evil, as said in Genesis, "Behold, now you are as one of us to know both Good and Evil".

Not that complicated

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Then who created us?

Or are you saying that some of us don't wish to choose evil, and that there are some people who are sinless?

None are sinless. Because sin is in the world. But God didnt create us to sin. Yet gave us the ability to. If God created us to be nothing but robots, doing all that He wanted us to do, we'd call Him a tyrant. Since He doesnt, He's unloving.

Right now, God's character is on trial. Satan accuses God of being unfair. Well He's proving He isnt.

 

[Smoke]

I don't know for sure. I would say they are innocent of good or evil not having knowledge of one way or another and for some time unable to comprehend. Can we not leave it there seeing the Gospel is for adults, men and women, not Babies and small children. God takes care of them .

Well, not really, because we weren't discussing who the gospel is for. We were discussing how people come to choose evil and bring all the suffering into the world.

Answer is, the only people that were created to not wish for evil were Adam and Eve.

It doesn't seem that they were, since they chose evil the first chance they got.

Everyone else would know both good and evil, as said in Genesis, "Behold, now you are as one of us to know both Good and Evil".

But why would knowing good and evil compel anybody to choose evil? Wouldn't you still have free will? And knowing good and evil, wouldn't you choose good, unless you were predisposed to choose evil?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

How do you do the multiple quotes???

 

[Peacewise]

But what makes us the kind of people who choose what feels good over what's good?

Seems to me that often what merely feels good is easier and then the pleasure passes, whilst what is good takes more effort yet it's good feeling lasts much longer.

Are we just as likely to choose good as evil?

I presume it varies for each individual.

If a person doesn't know the difference between good and evil, is he responsible for his choice?

Seems to me that if a person doesn't know that X is evil and does it then they are less evil then the person who knew X was evil and did it anyway. We are always responsible for every choice we make.

Why would God make people such that they don't know the difference, and then hold them accountable for not knowing?

What is this accountable you speak of?

I'm not sure whether we have free will, but if not, the illusion that we do is very strong. I am not consistently good or consistently evil. I have chosen evil before.


I respect his choice to give us free will. I do not respect his choice to make us such that we don't have the ability to consistently choose good. Why should I? If there is a Creator, he has made us as we are. If he blames us for the way he has made us, he is either a fool or a monster.

Thanks for expressing answers to my questions.

Do you understand that since we have free will we do have the ability to consistently choose good?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

None are sinless. Because sin is in the world. But God didnt create us to sin. Yet gave us the ability to. If God created us to be nothing but robots, doing all that He wanted us to do, we'd call Him a tyrant. Since He doesnt, He's unloving.

Right now, God's character is on trial. Satan accuses God of being unfair. Well He's proving He isnt.

This is a mistake, logically think it out for a second.

If we are born with the knowledge of good and evil, yet we are not strong as god to perfectly discern between the two, it is inevitable we will sometimes choose evil. It is hardly a choice, the fact is, NO ONE can go through life choosing good all the time, God wouldn't allow that, because if someone could do that, then their blood would be perfect and they could become the sacrifice to God for sins. God already predestined Jesus to do that, so there is zero zilch chance someone could choose good all the time.

In the end, it can't be free will. Freewill is just a confusion of the subject

 

[Just_me_Mike]

It doesn't seem that they were, since they chose evil the first chance they got.

I don't believe in free will, but predestination. there is no mention of free will in the bible, but plenty of predestination. Predestination answers all these questions, as it was intended for Adam and Eve to fail, so Jesus could come.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

This is a mistake, logically think it out for a second.

If we are born with the knowledge of good and evil, yet we are not strong as god to perfectly discern between the two, it is inevitable we will sometimes choose evil. It is hardly a choice, the fact is, NO ONE can go through life choosing good all the time, God wouldn't allow that, because if someone could do that, then their blood would be perfect and they could become the sacrifice to God for sins. God already predestined Jesus to do that, so there is zero zilch chance someone could choose good all the time.

In the end, it can't be free will. Freewill is just a confusion of the subject

I completely disagree. The decisions we make ARE our personal choices. If they werent, it would be unjust of God to punish us.

 

[Smoke]

None are sinless. Because sin is in the world. But God didnt create us to sin. Yet gave us the ability to. If God created us to be nothing but robots, doing all that He wanted us to do, we'd call Him a tyrant. Since He doesnt, He's unloving.

Right now, God's character is on trial. Satan accuses God of being unfair. Well He's proving He isnt.

Obviously he gave us the ability to choose evil. But why didn't he give us the ability to choose good? How come none of us are sinless?

 

[MSizer]

...Do you understand that since we have free will we do have the ability to consistently choose good?

Really? And you always know what is good? You're aware of every little consequence of each of your actions, and you take the time to factor them in always? You consider the chain of events that will or will not happen based on the various options you have at every second?

I think not. Your claim is impossible.

 

[Smoke]

I don't believe in free will, but predestination. there is no mention of free will in the bible, but plenty of predestination. Predestination answers all these questions, as it was intended for Adam and Eve to fail, so Jesus could come.

Well, that solves the problem of how evil and suffering came into the world. It was because God meant for evil and suffering to come into the world, and so designed us and the world so that it would.

Why did Jesus need to come?

 

[MSizer]

I completely disagree. The decisions we make ARE our personal choices. If they werent, it would be unjust of God to punish us.

Yet it is OK to emprison schizophrenics? Psychopaths should go to hell, even though there's a biological explanation for their social deviance which leads them to commit abhorrent acts?

The whole concept of being able to choose right from wrong is based on ignorance of the human mental condition. We are each somewhere on a spectrum of mental health, and that is a result of biology. Therefore, we are biologically predisposed to act in certain ways, thus making judgement conditions unique for every single individual. Some people know it's not acceptable to hurt others, and some people simply don't, even when they realize most other people feel that way.