I Can Not Respect A God who Allows Children to Suffer

[Beta]

But none of you are answering the question of why God made humans such that we wish to choose evil.

I have just said - as far as I understand that satan works through mankinds feelings and emotions which are far more expressive than Mind or cold facts.
And secondly man does not recognize evil in the way God does. WE are thick-skinned and very easily conned and deceived because we don't have the Mind of God. So we don't always see sin for what it really is. It is presented to us enticing and attractive and desireable. But the ulterior motive behind that facade is to kill us and deny us eternal life. We have to make a conscious choice for God in order to escape satan's hold over us. It means denying and giving up pleasures that satan makes attractive and many people are not willing to do that.
But scripture says satan will be cast into the abbyss when Christ returns and not allowed to deceive people for a thousand years. THEN it will be easier for people to believe God.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Obviously he gave us the ability to choose evil. But why didn't he give us the ability to choose good? How come none of us are sinless?

We do have the ability to do good. Just because we sin doesnt mean we arent good. Someone who has lied has sinned, but are they evil?

 

[Smoke]

I completely disagree. The decisions we make ARE our personal choices. If they werent, it would be unjust of God to punish us.

Okay. You don't believe with itwillend that God designed us to choose evil.
I agree with you that it would be unjust of God to punish us if he had.

But if we have a choice, and are not designed to choose evil, why is it that none of us consistently choose good? If we didn't have an inclination to evil, wouldn't there be people here and there who never chose evil? Shouldn't sinless people be as common as non-smokers, or teetotalers?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Yet it is OK to emprison schizophrenics? Psychopaths should go to hell, even though there's a biological explanation for their social deviance which leads them to commit abhorrent acts?

The whole concept of being able to choose right from wrong is based on ignorance of the human mental condition. We are each somewhere on a spectrum of mental health, and that is a result of biology. Therefore, we are biologically predisposed to act in certain ways, thus making judgement conditions unique for every single individual. Some people know it's not acceptable to hurt others, and some people simply don't, even when they realize most other people feel that way.

When did i say anyone specific should go to hell? The subject of hell wasnt even touched. Thing is, God judges the heart. I dont know how a lot of mental illnesses and conditions work. And i cant say this specific person is going to hell because they did such and such.......sooo........Dont really know where this came from. LOL

 

[MSizer]

We do have the ability to do good. Just because we sin doesnt mean we arent good. Someone who has lied has sinned, but are they evil?

So a man born with an amygdala that is 17% smaller than that of 99% of the population, who kills someone, is evil? How so? He doesn't have the mental capacity for morality. How can you say he wills to be evil? You can't - he doesn't have the ability to be any other way.

 

[Smoke]

I have just said - as far as I understand that satan works through mankinds feelings and emotions which are far more expressive than Mind or cold facts.
And secondly man does not recognize evil in the way God does. WE are thick-skinned and very easily conned and deceived because we don't have the Mind of God. So we don't always see sin for what it really is. It is presented to us enticing and attractive and desireable. But the ulterior motive behind that facade is to kill us and deny us eternal life. We have to make a conscious choice for God in order to escape satan's hold over us. It means denying and giving up pleasures that satan makes attractive and many people are not willing to do that.
But scripture says satan will be cast into the abbyss when Christ returns and not allowed to deceive people for a thousand years. THEN it will be easier for people to believe God.

So we choose evil because Satan is more persuasive than God?
Do you think God could ever learn to be as persuasive as Satan?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

Okay. You don't believe with itwillend that God designed us to choose evil.
I agree with you that it would be unjust of God to punish us if he had.

But if we have a choice, and are not designed to choose evil, why is it that none of us consistently choose good? If we didn't have an inclination to evil, wouldn't there be people here and there who never chose evil? Shouldn't sinless people be as common as non-smokers, or teetotalers?

I think most people do choose good more often times than not. BUT when they do sin, many dont view a lot of things they do as sin.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

So a man born with an amygdala that is 17% smaller than that of 99% of the population, who kills someone, is evil? How so? He doesn't have the mental capacity for morality. How can you say he wills to be evil? You can't - he doesn't have the ability to be any other way.

Where in the world did i say such a thing?

 

[Peacewise]

Really? And you always know what is good? You're aware of every little consequence of each of your actions, and you take the time to factor them in always? You consider the chain of events that will or will not happen based on the various options you have at every second?

I think not. Your claim is impossible.

Yes really. I don't assume to always know what is good and hence must take some time to consider the action. So yes I do try to be aware of every consequence of each of my actions, and I do take the time to factor them in to the best of my ability.

My claim is not impossible it's what I do and it sure isn't easy, though it does get more efficient. I'm not perfect in that process certainly, but I give it a go, and when I find my error I seek to correct my error, accepting the responsibility for my error and try to never make that error again.

Seems that what I've just described is simply a continuous improvement process and as such many people work this way. plan, prepare, implement, review and refine.

It is the people who implement without planning, preparing, reviewing and refining that cause the most harm, to themselves and others. I'm content to consider Plan Prepare and Review Refine even more important that implement.

 

[Smoke]

I think most people do choose good more often times than not. BUT when they do sin, many dont view a lot of things they do as sin.

So, whereas itwillend believes we sin because we know the difference between good and evil, you believe because we don't know the difference?

Why don't we know the difference? Are we responsible for knowing it?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

So, whereas itwillend believes we sin because we know the difference between good and evil, you believe because we don't know the difference?

Why don't we know the difference? Are we responsible for knowing it?

No. I didnt say we dont know the difference. LOL

Whats up with putting words in my mouth today????

I said they dont VIEW it as sin. Many dont view sex outside of marriage as sin. Or homosexuality as sin. Even cursing as sin.

 

[Smoke]

No. I didnt say we dont know the difference. LOL

Whats up with putting words in my mouth today????

I said they dont VIEW it as sin. Many dont view sex outside of marriage as sin. Or homosexuality as sin. Even cursing as sin.

They know it's a sin, but they don't view it as a sin? What does that mean?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Well, that solves the problem of how evil and suffering came into the world. It was because God meant for evil and suffering to come into the world, and so designed us and the world so that it would.

Why did Jesus need to come?

It would seem Jesus and god are one and the same, and in the context of this discussion is deeper than many will want to consider (not you) in my experience.
If Jesus was not god I admit I can't resolve the bible. If Jesus is god than it would appear god wanted all to know god experienced everything we experience as a human even death. Why? Love is the only thing I can think of.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

They know it's a sin, but they don't view it as a sin? What does that mean?

They can hear people shout it from the mountian tops. Read it in the bible. But they continue in it because they dont change their lifestyle. So much so, they really convince themselves its ok to do.

 

[Smoke]

They can hear people shout it from the mountian tops. Read it in the bible. But they continue in it because they dont change their lifestyle. So much so, they really convince themselves its ok to do.

If they're convinced it's not a sin, then they don't really know it's a sin, do they?

But what makes humans the kind of people who will convince themselves that a sin is not a sin? For instance, the Bible never says anywhere that we should accept Jesus as our personal Savior, but I have heard many people say the Bible teaches that. And not only do they not believe it's a sin to tell such a lie, but they believe it's a very good thing to tell this lie. They're trying to do good, but their desire to do good makes them lie. Why are people like that?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

 

[MSizer]

Where in the world did i say such a thing?

I'm not suggesting you said it - sorry - I know it's annoying to have words put in your mouth, but that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm simply pointing out that the whole concept of "sinners" being punished and "good people" being rewarded is not possible, becuase there is no line dividing the two categories. The human mental condition is far more complicated, and it's obvious that when iron aged people wrote down thier ideas about good and bad (scriptures), they didn't understand human nature. The fact that so many people still buy into those writings shows that the average person is no more aware today than they were 2000 years ago.

 

[LyricalDutchess]

If they're convinced it's not a sin, then they don't really know it's a sin, do they?

But what makes humans the kind of people who will convince themselves that a sin is not a sin? For instance, the Bible never says anywhere that we should accept Jesus as our personal Savior, but I have heard many people say the Bible teaches that. And not only do they not believe it's a sin to tell such a lie, but they believe it's a very good thing to tell this lie. They're trying to do good, but their desire to do good makes them lie. Why are people like that?

We're going in circles. We convince ourselves because we try and justify our wrongs. The reason as to way is individually based. The subject on accepting Christ not being scriptural is a WHOLE nother topic. LOL But its very much scriptural.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

We convince ourselves because we try and justify our wrongs

Ahh, but who get's to decide what is 'wrong' and what is 'right' if not ourselves?

 

[LyricalDutchess]

I'm not suggesting you said it - sorry - I know it's annoying to have words put in your mouth, but that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm simply pointing out that the whole concept of "sinners" being punished and "good people" being rewarded is not possible, becuase there is no line dividing the two categories. The human mental condition is far more complicated, and it's obvious that when iron aged people wrote down thier ideas about good and bad (scriptures), they didn't understand human nature. The fact that so many people still buy into those writings shows that the average person is no more aware today than they were 2000 years ago.

Thing is, none are good but the Father. Least not in the true sense of the word. Now there are good people when it comes to our standards of good. Many. But i can say you are going to hell because you dont believe in God. Whereas i can teach what the word of God says, i have no authority on whos going to heaven and whos not. Thats why God judges the heart. Because we as humans only tend to see the outside.