I don't particularly want to sin...

[Sheldon]

Homosexuality is an abomination, as is the approbation of it - but look who I'm talking to, one who believes that animals are homosexuals, and

Quelle surprise you ignored the evidence again, but homosexuality is, as the evidence demonstrates, a perfectly natural and harmless variation of adult sexual desires. I already linked research demonstrating objective evidence that homosexuality exists in other species, and that animals experience emotional loss, you have not even attempted to address that evidence. The inference for your beliefs in light of such bigotry and closed minded bias, is unavoidable.

that creatures who are so selfish, ruthless and vicious in their daily lives, engage in funeral rituals, lamenting the death of their offspring - after they just killed 10 other creature's children.

What a spectacularly stupid claim. Humans do precisely the same, or are you saying humans are not carnivores, and don't feel emotional loss?

 

[Sheldon]

in order to desperately try and make your myopic point.

 

[Sheldon]

I'm aware that the great apes, of which humans are but one, are not the only cognitively advanced species. I studied biology at college and then psychology at university. Neither subject is concerned with only the study of homo sapiens. What about you? Your posts suggest complete ignorance.

It is also wilful ignorance, as is always the case with closed minded bigotry. Look at the facts he has to deny to maintain his blinkered beliefs.

1. Humans are animals.
2. Human taxonomy is that they are part of a family of great apes.
3. The entirety of species evolution.
4. That homosexuality has been demonstrated to exist throughout the animal kingdom, and is not as he claims unnatural.
5. That many other animal species have been demonstrated to exhibit emotional loss and grief.
6. The geological facts that demonstrate a global flood has not happened.

That's just from memory.

 

[Secret Chief]

It is also wilful ignorance, as is always the case with closed minded bigotry. Look at the facts he has to deny to maintain his blinkered beliefs.

1. Humans are animals.
2. Human taxonomy is that they are part of a family of great apes.
3. The entirety of species evolution.
4. That homosexuality has been demonstrated to exist throughout the animal kingdom, and is not as he claims unnatural.
5. That many other animal species have been demonstrated to exhibit emotional loss and grief.
6. The geological facts that demonstrate a global flood has not happened.

That's just from memory.

Oh yes, I did geology at college too. Must have been off sick when we did The Flood.

 

[Secret Chief]

@DNB

“If we understand the profound depths of emotions animals can feel, this should make us question the existence of zoos and slaughterhouses around the world, and rethink those systems. Because at present there is a tremendous solace in understanding that the grief we ourselves feel is shared by all kinds of animals worldwide.”
- Dr Barbara J King, Emerita Professor of Anthropology and author of How Animals Grieve.

- The truth about animal grief | BBC Earth

 

[F1fan]

It’s good to see you have a healthy skepticism. That’s exactly how I was which led me to the truth.

And perhaps you are wrong about what you think the truth is? How can you be certain given the basis of what you think is truth is a supernatural force, and it isn't known to exist or even be plausible?

Let us help. Present the evidence you think was convincing, and maybe we will agree with you. You avoiding this seems to suggest to me you are not that confident in the evidence or your conclusions.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Terrorists are a tiny minority who make ridiculous claims. We all agree they are criminals. They can claim what they want.

1. they are not a "tiny" minority

2. One man's criminal is another man's hero.

3. You are missing the point I was actually making. Or ignoring it. I was replying to what you claimed that the "correct" message of the quran is. Claiming that these terrorists do not represent "true" islam and / or not "interpreting" the quran correctly. My point is that they say the same about other muslims. That it is not them that are incorrect, but the others. They use the quran to defend their actions just like their enemies use the quran to condemn their actions.

 

[DNB]

I'm aware that the great apes, of which humans are but one, are not the only cognitively advanced species. I studied biology at college and then psychology at university. Neither subject is concerned with only the study of homo sapiens. What about you? Your posts suggest complete ignorance.

You need to get your educational money back. What did it cost you to be taught that humans are apes?

 

[DNB]

You didn't actually even counter my point. Dolphins have group bonding, they morn their dead, they have group rules. Elephants have group bonding, mourn their dead and later visit the grave, and they have group rules. Other primates are no different. Jane Goodall has even observed behaviors in chimps that appears ritualistic in nature. It has been observed that a very young bonobo basically died of a broken heart when his mom died (he fell into a deep depression and quit eating).
It's unfortunate the damage Abraham's god has done by trying to convince us we are above the rest of life and significantly superior in intellectual capacities and conscious awareness.
I dare say even snakes are not purely instinct driven.

All animals are instinct driven, '...appears to be...' does not constitute incontrovertible fact. Man is a spiritual being, unlike any other creature on earth. Only man has moral awareness, and abstract thoughts - concepts that transcend the physical. Man is innately religious, and there is not a single corner of the world that doesn't testify to man's desire to attain to the sublime. Non-humans were created to serve man, and thus, we kill and eat them, as they do the same among themselves. Anyone with half a brain in their head can discern the innately simple and primitive, and one-dimensional, cognizance of non-human creatures.

 

[DNB]

As hilarious as your sweeping bigotry is, I'm going to have to go where the evidence leads.

You know something, Sheldon, your constant playing of the Bigot Card is making a profound indictment against yourself...
....me thinkest that thou dost protest too much!

 

[DNB]

Quelle surprise you ignored the evidence again, but homosexuality is, as the evidence demonstrates, a perfectly natural and harmless variation of adult sexual desires. I already linked research demonstrating objective evidence that homosexuality exists in other species, and that animals experience emotional loss, you have not even attempted to address that evidence. The inference for your beliefs in light of such bigotry and closed minded bias, is unavoidable.



What a spectacularly stupid claim. Humans do precisely the same, or are you saying humans are not carnivores, and don't feel emotional loss?

Humans who commit such atrocities, have invariably been classified as inhumane, depraved and primitive i.e. animals

 

[DNB]

Still engaging in childish entertainment, like the 'Big bang Theory'? And, now you're watching the 'Toy Story'? And what point do we grow up, and desist from embracing fantasies and delusions?

 

[DNB]

@DNB

“If we understand the profound depths of emotions animals can feel, this should make us question the existence of zoos and slaughterhouses around the world, and rethink those systems. Because at present there is a tremendous solace in understanding that the grief we ourselves feel is shared by all kinds of animals worldwide.”
- Dr Barbara J King, Emerita Professor of Anthropology and author of How Animals Grieve.

- The truth about animal grief | BBC Earth

Barbara needs to give here head a shake.

 

[Secret Chief]

Barbara needs to give here head a shake.

Godnose what you need then.

 

[Secret Chief]

What did it cost you to be taught that humans are apes?

My grant was to learn some science. What has it cost you to wilfully remain in such ignorance of a basic scientific consensus? But you're right, I should have just looked in any science book on the subject. To be fair though, the quote below will of course just bounce off you since your belief system will not permit acceptance.

"A hominid is a member of the family Hominidae, the great apes: orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees and humans."
- Hominidae - Wikipedia

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Non-humans were created to serve man

No, they were not. That is your belief, and very unfortunate for non-human life.

Anyone with half a brain in their head can discern the innately simple and primitive, and one-dimensional, cognizance of non-human creatures.

This too is your belief, and rather unfortunate. Crows and ravens, octopuses and dolphins, they all happen to be highly intelligent being who are even capable problem solvers. Crows are even good enough to be the only non-human to be able to figure out the hierarchy of another group. Many non-humans of have been observed working together in inter-species cooperation to achieve a common goal.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You need to get your educational money back. What did it cost you to be taught that humans are apes?

Eum... that humans are apes (and mammals and tetrapods and vertebrates and eukaryotes...) is covered in high school. One doesn't actually need a college or uni education to be taught the basics of the basics of biology and taxonomy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

All animals are instinct driven, '...appears to be...' does not constitute incontrovertible fact.

As opposed to "I believe it, that settles it"?

Having said that, another thing covered in high school, is how scientific theory doesn't result in "incontrovertible fact". Theories are testable explanatory models that can account for all the evidence as well as predict new evidence. The theories are valid and the best we got until new evidence shows up that doesn't fit.

This is so for all theories in science.
Scientific explanations can't be proven by definition. Proof is for mathematics.
Theories can only be supported by evidence. As evolution is. Lots and lots of solid evidence.

Man is a spiritual being, unlike any other creature on earth.

Every species is "unlike any other creature". It's their unique traits that makes them a separate species.

Only man has moral awareness

No. All social species have a moral awareness. One more complex then the other. But all social species have it. It's pretty much an inevitable necessity whenever the slightest need for cooperation or mutual interests come up.

As humans have the most complex "social group", it is not surprising for them to have the most complex social constructs in terms of morals / rules of conduct.

, and abstract thoughts - concepts that transcend the physical.

What do you mean specifically by that?

Man is innately religious

Pretty much all animals have a tendency to be superstitious. Even pigeons, as an infamous experiment once showed.

, and there is not a single corner of the world that doesn't testify to man's desire to attain to the sublime. Non-humans were created to serve man, and thus, we kill and eat them, as they do the same among themselves.

Well aren't we a bit narcistic... "all this are belong to us!!"

Anyhow, in case you didn't notice, everything alive on this planet is pretty much hunted down and / or otherwise consumed by something else alive on this planet. Humans are no exception.

Plenty of predators will be more then happy to shred humans apart, eat them and let the young ones play with the carcass. Or even nasty insects or parasites who will put their eggs in your eyeball and have them hatch there with the newborn literally eating their way out.

Nature is pretty nasty sometimes....
Anyhow, humans are just as much part of the general food chain then other animals are.

Anyone with half a brain in their head can discern the innately simple and primitive, and one-dimensional, cognizance of non-human creatures.

And someone with a full brain who paid a bit of attention in high school, would understand that the psychology of animals goes much deeper then that, that the difference between us and the other great apes (on all levels) is much smaller then narcistic humans would like to think or admit it is and that this diversity of species and "ways of life" are pretty well understood and explained in the collective of scientific fields that together make up evolutionary biology.

 

[Secret Chief]

No, they were not. That is your belief, and very unfortunate for non-human life.

This too is your belief, and rather unfortunate. Crows and ravens, octopuses and dolphins, they all happen to be highly intelligent being who are even capable problem solvers. Crows are even good enough to be the only non-human to be able to figure out the hierarchy of another group. Many non-humans of have been observed working together in inter-species cooperation to achieve a common goal.

Thought this was interesting...

"Due to the close genetic relationship between humans and the other great apes, certain animal rights organisations, such as the Great Ape Project, argue that nonhuman great apes are persons and should be given basic human rights. Twenty-nine countries have instituted research bans to protect great apes from any kind of scientific testing."

- Hominidae - Wikipedia

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Thought this was interesting...

"Due to the close genetic relationship between humans and the other great apes, certain animal rightsorganizations, such as the Great Ape Project, argue that nonhuman great apes are persons and should be given basic human rights. Twenty-nine countries have instituted research bans to protect great apes from any kind of scientific testing."

- Hominidae - Wikipedia

I would support such notion.
Or at least a "Great Ape Rights".


It's freaky how "human like" they are in a lot of ways. It's not "human like" off course... it's just "great ape". We say "human like" because most people tend to assume that plenty of our cognitive faculties are "human only".

And it off course doesn't help when plenty of people are basicly told they as humans are "above animals" (which also installs the false idea that humans are not animals).

It's amazing to find out that they aren't. That in reality, we share quite a few of such faculties. When I learned about how other great apes pass the "spot test", showing they are very self-aware, it blew me away.

Since then I always feel sorry for the chimps at the zoo. Can't help it. I don't get that feeling at all when watching a koala or an owl or whatever.


Imo, being self-aware, it must also understand even more so then other animals that it is being held captive.
Being self-aware, they will likely also understand better the concept of "other individuals" as opposed to the self. So I think that at the zoo for example, they understand on some level that they are captives while the humans running around and staring at them, are free.

I don't know if this is actually the case, but it seems reasonable to me.