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"I Heard You Mormons...."
- Thread starter DeepShadow
- Start date
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Why not just say "don't consume unhealthy things."? Because forbidding item X while allowing item Y, which is just as unhealthy if not more so, just seems to defeat any point or purpose.
Wouldn't that depend what the point or purpose is? And just because something isn't explicitly prohibited doesn't mean you have to have it.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
All I'm saying is that something important like divine authority should be concise, coherent and consistent.
Charity
Let's go racing boys !
Most divine authority is concise, coherent and consistent it is the people who are not.......
While, item Y may or may not have been in existence at the time of the statute. The bottom-line is tea and coffee. But we are also encouraged to make smart decisions for ourselves. Thus, many people swear off things such as soda even if the Church itself has not expressly interpreted the statute as such. I think "don't consume unhealthy things" expresses the spirit of the law and I agree with you whole-heartedly.
"Hot drinks" has been interpreted as "tea and coffee." How much more consice, coherent or consistent can it be?
Thats great but Tea is most definitely healthy for most people. Coffee has health benefits if used responsible in adulthood and even a wine a day is better for most then no wine ever.
Smoking Cigerettes is one of the most effective treatments for some diseases. (IBS for instance) If done responsibly there is no reason to say its unhealthy. (Whether smoking can be done responsibly is up for debate since I needed chantix to quit but I still dont smoke anymore!!! woot!)
Don't consume unhealthy things is a great way to interpret it but what was said and commanded sounds personally reasonable to me if you were a normal uninspired regular, superstitious man born and raised around the time Joe was.
To say God commands us not to drink tea, coffee, alcohol and to not smoke is just blatent nonsense IMHO. How one would go about digesting that rationally is to start with rationalizations like... well I think he meant dont consume things that are unhealthy etc etc...
J Bryson
Well-Known Member
I heard you Mormons are indirectly responsible for The Donny and Marie Show. I blame all of you for getting "I'm A Little Bit Country, I'm A Little Bit Rock And Roll" stuck in my head during most of my elementary school years.
May tomorrow
Be a perfect day
May you find love and laughter
Along the way
May God keep you
In his tender care
Till he brings us together again....
May tomorrow
Be a perfect day
May you find love and laughter
Along the way
May God keep you
In his tender care
Till he brings us together again....
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Oh man! Does it get any cheesier that this?
J Bryson
Well-Known Member
The saddest thing? I did that from memory.
But the answer to your rhetorical question is "Yes".
And they called it puppy love
Oh, I guess they'll never know
How a young heart really feels
And why I love her so
And they called it puppy love
Just because we're in our teens
Tell them all it isn't fair
To take away my only dream
I cry each night my tears for you
My tears are all in vain
I'll hope and I'll pray that maybe someday
You'll be back in my arms once again
Someone, help me, help me, help me please
Is the answer up above
How can I, how can I tell them
This is not a puppy love
Although Paul Anka shares responsibility there.
You're certainly free to your opinion. The fact you advocate so-called responsible smoking is blatent nonsense IMHO. There are known negative consequences for drinking coffee and tea, but feel free to ignore those too.
Shall we start quoting stats about how much healthier Utah Mormons are then the rest of the country?
J Bryson
Well-Known Member
It's not enough for redemption, say I!
DarkMaster24
Active Member
White and Nerdy...now that's a good song. Allthough it kind of hits close to home.
Hmmm...
First I did not advocate responsible smoking and the implied benefit was only meant for those who had a particular disease that might benefit from smoking and the cited example of IBS. Do not put words in my mouth and I think my struggle to quit and stated use of chantix was meant to indicate the debateable nature of responsible smoking in the first place. My stated reason was that some with a particular disease may live longer and in more comfort by smoking then without.
Second I dont want an either or fallacy argument with utah mormons living longer even if that is true.
Beyond that you imply to have some well defined studies that say its because they dont drink hot tea but only iced tea that they live longer.
No. What you might have is some account of mormons living longer in utah that you accept out of hand and even if true can you prove its because you dont drink coffee and tea. hee hee.
Now I've read the abstracts of lds vrs non lds studies performed by byu of utah but statistically speaking mormons are so new that even if mormons in utah live longer then non mormons in utah and irresponsible smoking and alcohol use do not adequately explain it you would still need more data.
My point is tea even hot tea is regarded for most as healthy and a powerful source of antioxidants. Further what is hot tea? There about 1000 varieties from every flavor and range from decaf to high caf. Some are made from plants like valarien root which aid sleep and digestion others from completely different plants but with no science whatsoever your going to carte blanche tell me hot tea is bad for you and wrong in the eyes of the lord because Joe said so?
You are doing exactly what I said. You are making rationalizations to make it fit your world view. Utah mormons live longer so TEA makes you die faster and is bad for you BalanceFx. Its simple fact... Do you want me to post studies that prove my world view and really have nothing to do with your argument? Cause you said smoking was good and advcoted it BalanceFx. Why should we listen to you?
Hmmm...
First I did not advocate responsible smoking and the implied benefit was only meant for those who had a particular disease that might benefit from smoking and the cited example of IBS. Do not put words in my mouth and I think my struggle to quit and stated use of chantix was meant to indicate the debateable nature of responsible smoking in the first place. My stated reason was that some with a particular disease may live longer and in more comfort by smoking then without.
Second I dont want an either or fallacy argument with utah mormons living longer even if that is true.
Beyond that you imply to have some well defined studies that say its because they dont drink hot tea but only iced tea that they live longer.
No. What you might have is some account of mormons living longer in utah that you accept out of hand and even if true can you prove its because you dont drink coffee and tea. hee hee.
Now I've read the abstracts of lds vrs non lds studies performed by byu of utah but statistically speaking mormons are so new that even if mormons in utah live longer then non mormons in utah and irresponsible smoking and alcohol use do not adequately explain it you would still need more data.
My point is tea even hot tea is regarded for most as healthy and a powerful source of antioxidants. Further what is hot tea? There about 1000 varieties from every flavor and range from decaf to high caf. Some are made from plants like valarien root which aid sleep and digestion others from completely different plants but with no science whatsoever your going to carte blanche tell me hot tea is bad for you and wrong in the eyes of the lord because Joe said so?
You are doing exactly what I said. You are making rationalizations to make it fit your world view. Utah mormons live longer so TEA makes you die faster and is bad for you BalanceFx. Its simple fact... Do you want me to post studies that prove my world view and really have nothing to do with your argument? Cause you said smoking was good and advcoted it BalanceFx. Why should we listen to you?
I never said tea makes you die faster - don't put words in my mouth. And, can you try not to sensationalize everything?
Can you calm down and have a rationale conversation? Let me know.
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Here's some info for the casual reader. Not trying to prove or disprove anything. Not making any claims. Just showing what others have researched and said.
CANCER IN UTAH MORMON MEN BY LAY PRIESTHOOD LEVEL -- GARDNER and LYON 116 (2): 243 -- American Journal of Epidemiology
CANCER IN UTAH MORMON MEN BY LAY PRIESTHOOD LEVEL -- GARDNER and LYON 116 (2): 243 -- American Journal of Epidemiology
I'd be interested to know how this balances out against, say, LDS rates of tropical diseases. I have no statistics, but intuitively, I would think that with their missionary work, the LDS Church would probably have a significantly higher percentage of members who have been exposed to things like malaria, chagas disease and bird flu than most other groups or the American population at large.
Does this put Mormons at higher risk? Would it make an impact on the average life expectancy of Mormons as a group? Dunno.
There is no sensationalism. You implied tea has negative effects and I was ignoring those and if tea is so good for you then why do Utah Mormons live longer?
Tea has negative effects... What tea? As stated there are 1000s of kinds made from all varieties of plants. The act of running hot water through plants of any kind has negative effects on the human body?
And what would the correlation be to life expectancy? People who do not consume hot water that has been filtered through plant material of any variety live longer?
What negative effects am I ignoring and what teas have these properties?