"I Heard You Mormons...."

[Sententia]

It is generally understood that the Word of Wisdom prohibits camellia sinensis.

At this rate Im not sure you even want to discuss the topic of consuming hot water that has steeped in the plant camellia sinensis. (Although I am inclined to note that this plant has the word SIN in its name).

However. In the spirit of optimism... You mentioned ignoring the negative effects. What are these negative effects? What is the cause of them? Does Caffiene play a role?

I guess I will add that this is not the first time I have posed this question either. However if I have to ask everything 4 times before you answer I will grow very bored before we ever finish this discussion.

However I am an atheist and I drink coffee and tea and alcohol too. I deny the holy spirit and I used to smoke. I think caffiene is the cats meow and refute superstitious beliefs and want proof before I believe in things like gold plates spirited to heaven. I can see how you would hate me. (Not that you ever said you did... I am stating an empathy with you based on your responses so far. Its my words and not words in your mouth.) But unlike moroni's plates this particular tea is here right now and I would gather it's detrimental and beneficial effects can and have been studied and probably largely depend on responsible use and your genetic make up.

So what are these negative effects?

Disclaimer: Watchmen only says what I have quoted him to say. If for some reason I have implied he has said more then what is quoted then that is my opinion and my translation of his words. I may ask many times for clarifications that he may or may not eventually provide but REGARDLESS unless its quoted you can not attribute what I said as being what he said. Even if it seems I am translating correctly I am not a mormon and what he thinks is common knowledge among everyone is not always so obvious to this holy ghost denying atheist.

 

[Father Heathen]

"Hot drinks" has been interpreted as "tea and coffee." How much more consice, coherent or consistent can it be?

I get that, but if people are deliberately exploiting loopholes to the point of defeating the purpose, then why not just disregard the whole thing (which you should, anyway. Coffee and tea are pretty tasty)?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I get that, but if people are deliberately exploiting loopholes to the point of defeating the purpose, then why not just disregard the whole thing (which you should, anyway. Coffee and tea are pretty tasty)?

What do you see as the purpose, exactly?

 

[Father Heathen]

What do you see as the purpose, exactly?

Well, regarding that "hot drinks" means coffee and tea (even they're cold), one would assume caffeine is the issue. What other concern that's also a connection between the two could there be? And people are saying sodas are okay because they're not mentioned (because it was written before they were even invented.) But that just negates the whole thing, doesn't it? It just strikes me as dishonest. And even if it's not caffeine that was the issue, why adhere to something that's so seemingly random for no apparent reason?
On top of that, I don't get why someone would do or not do something just because of what a book says, and yet give no thought as to why they're actually doing it.

 

[Apex]

On top of that, I don't get why someone would do or not do something just because of what a book says, and yet give no thought as to why they're actually doing it.

You assume too much. Some people may just go by what the Bible or Book of Mormon say without thinking about it. But stating that we, in general, act like mindless slaves to our religious texts with no thought of our own is disingenuous. You really need to try to work on giving theists, and more specifically Christians, a greater amount of respect when it comes to their intelligence and ability to think for them selves.

 

[RemnanteK]

Well, regarding that "hot drinks" means coffee and tea (even they're cold), one would assume caffeine is the issue. What other concern that's also a connection between the two could there be? And people are saying sodas are okay because they're not mentioned (because it was written before they were even invented.) But that just negates the whole thing, doesn't it? It just strikes me as dishonest. And even if it's not caffeine that was the issue, why adhere to something that's so seemingly random for no apparent reason?
On top of that, I don't get why someone would do or not do something just because of what a book says, and yet give no thought as to why they're actually doing it.

I get the deal about no caffeine, it's a drug, and it's addictive, and it can cause problems.
I myself do drink caffeine from time to time, but I don't go looking for it.
I even work with 'atheists' that don't drink it, mostly dew to heart issues.
Point being if not moderated anything can be 'Bad" for you.
I mean really if we bible followers "really' took the body is a temple thing to the max we would all have to move out of big cities.
Pollution is way more detrimental to heath than caffeine in my opinion.

I also agree, people shouldn't do anything because a person or book says the should.
Everyone needs to find out for themselves what is right and true and good, for them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well, regarding that "hot drinks" means coffee and tea (even they're cold), one would assume caffeine is the issue.

Maybe. Dunno. I note that the "even if they're cold" bit isn't explicitly mentioned in the clarification the LDS folks mentioned in the thread. My impression is that the people who avoid cold coffee and tea do so more with a "better safe than sorry" attitude than an "I know God doesn't want me to drink this" attitude. I wouldn't be surprised if other Mormons avoid hot herbal teas with the same "better safe than sorry" attitude.

What other concern that's also a connection between the two could there be?[/qoute]
Umm.... "God doesn't want you to drink these two specific things", maybe?

And people are saying sodas are okay because they're not mentioned (because it was written before they were even invented.) But that just negates the whole thing, doesn't it? It just strikes me as dishonest. And even if it's not caffeine that was the issue, why adhere to something that's so seemingly random for no apparent reason?

Dunno. Why set aside every seventh day for God? Why not do it every eight or six?

On top of that, I don't get why someone would do or not do something just because of what a book says, and yet give no thought as to why they're actually doing it.

Frankly, neither do I, but the Mormons are far from unique in this regard.

 

[DarkMaster24]

I couldn't be a Mormon. I'm addicted to coffee and wouldn't even think of giving it up for the simple reason that a religon demands I do.

Yay for sinning..

 

[J Bryson]

I couldn't be a Mormon. I'm addicted to coffee and wouldn't even think of giving it up for the simple reason that a religon demands I do.

Yay for sinning..

Yeah, for UUs, coffee is nearly a sacrament. You don't see many of us converting to LDS for that reason. Well, that's one reason, at least.

 

[idea]

OK - are we still listing off "I heard you Mormon" stuff? because I recently heard a new one:

.... worship Adam as our God.
Adam God




Ephesians 3:14-15 "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,"

of course "the whole family in heaven and earth is named" after Adam
see Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon

 

[idea]

Just FYI:

WORD OF WISDOM
A law of health revealed by the Lord for the physical and spiritual benefit of the Saints (D&C 89). It has become commonly referred to as the Word of Wisdom. The Lord has always taught his followers principles of health. The Lord revealed to Joseph Smith which types of foods to eat and which to avoid, along with a promise of temporal and spiritual blessings for obeying the Word of Wisdom.
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, Lev. 10:9. Wine is a mocker, and strong drink is raging, Prov. 20:1. Strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it, Isa. 24:9. Daniel would not defile himself with the king's meat and wine, Dan. 1:8. If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy, 1 Cor. 3:16–17. Drunkards shall not inherit the kingdom of God, 1 Cor. 6:10 (Gal. 5:21). Whoso forbiddeth that man should not eat meats is not ordained of God, D&C 49:18–21. All things which come of the earth are to be used with judgment, not to excess, D&C 59:20. The Lord counseled the Saints to not use wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks, D&C 89:1–9. Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals, D&C 89:10–17. Obedience to the Word of Wisdom brings temporal and spiritual blessings, D&C 89:18–21.
(Guide to the Scriptures | WWord of Wisdom:Entry)

~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.arthurhu.com/index/lifeexpe.htm

 

[DarkMaster24]

Seeing as I'm not LDS that doesn't apply to me, hehe.

Does that mean that I can still enter heavan, since I'm not a Mormon? Moreover, those rules don't apply to me, right?

 

[DarkMaster24]

Yeah, for UUs, coffee is nearly a sacrament. You don't see many of us converting to LDS for that reason. Well, that's one reason, at least.

Yeah. Who would want to give up coffee? It's only the best drink there ever was..

 

[idea]

Seeing as I'm not LDS that doesn't apply to me, hehe.

Does that mean that I can still enter heavan, since I'm not a Mormon? Moreover, those rules don't apply to me, right?

We are only accountable for what we know. We do not condemn anyone, we do temple work for them so that they can have everything we have if they so choose.

Yeah. Who would want to give up coffee? It's only the best drink there ever was..

There are things that are better than coffee...

 

[J Bryson]

There are things that are better than coffee...

Well, yeah, but you're only supposed to do that within the bounds of holy matrimony.

 

[DarkMaster24]

We are only accountable for what we know. We do not condemn anyone, we do temple work for them so that they can have everything we have if they so choose.

That's reassuring.

There are things that are better than coffee...

Maybe that's true for you, but personally, coffee is my favorite thing to drink. I don't think I could ever give it up. Coffee is good.

 

[SoyLeche]

Earlier in this thread I saw the comments of Black LDS members, and I say PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! LOL

And I say, since the advent of Photoshop, pics aren't necessarily all that useful as proof

 

[SoyLeche]

I'd be interested to know how this balances out against, say, LDS rates of tropical diseases. I have no statistics, but intuitively, I would think that with their missionary work, the LDS Church would probably have a significantly higher percentage of members who have been exposed to things like malaria, chagas disease and bird flu than most other groups or the American population at large.

Does this put Mormons at higher risk? Would it make an impact on the average life expectancy of Mormons as a group? Dunno.

I don't know about that. I have heard that Mormon missionaries have a lower mortality rate during their time abroad than their peers who don't go on missions. The missionaries sometimes end up in risky circumstances (dangerous areas, exposure to the diseases you mentioned), but then again, they avoid the things that tend to kill people their age (i.e. alcohol, cars, and any combination of the two).

Not sure if that means anything, and I've never actually seen a study, I've just heard the conclusion stated.

 

[SoyLeche]

I wouldn't be surprised if other Mormons avoid hot herbal teas with the same "better safe than sorry" attitude.

Yeah - a lot of Mormons won't drink herbal teas. My sister's husband* is from Peru. They drink hot stuff all the time down there. For Christmas one year I got him an electric kettle with an assortment of things that require hot water** (instant oatmeal, hot chocolate, herbal teas, etc). My brother's wife thought I was terrible for giving herbal tea, because "we aren't supposed to drink that".

Mormons*** don't tend to have the habit of drinking hot anything. We'll drink the occasional hot cocoa, but that's more of a "it's a snowy day, I want a treat" than a "I need a cup of cocoa to get going in the moring". Maybe a couple of times a month, and only in the winter months. It's just not a part of our culture.

* there are a couple of different "in-laws" in this story, so I'll go into more detail to avoid confusion.

** we have one of these, and we LOVE it. We use it pretty much every time we need to boil water (for pasta mostly - the kettle boils water faster than the microwave does)

*** in the United States at least

 

[Sententia]

And I say, since the advent of Photoshop, pics aren't necessarily all that useful as proof

Wait... Gold plates spirited to heaven... no pics... no proof... like text and hear say...

Granted I admire the skeptism... but I wonder if you know what your implying...

What if you just have faith in the pics... Invoking Photoshop even as a possiblilty would be almost as a blasphemous as saying we used words to lie about plates of gold.

I dunno. I guess I find it almost disingenuous to hear a mormon question standards of evidence. (And at the same time hopeful?)