I Just Proved That Jesus Is A False Messiah In Less Than 5 Minutes

[dybmh]

In the past, the records were kept in the temple in Jerusalem, I believe. How about now, where do you think the records are kept?

No doubt. I am asking about now though, current times. The records were stored. But what about since then, do you think the Jews are keeping records of genealogical descent now? If so, would you know where?

It's maintained now as word of mouth, family to family, oral tradition. For families that are Levites or Kohens they receive a special honor in the ceremonial reading of the Torah; so, it's easy to know whether your family is among those lineages. For families that are in the Davidic line, it's also passed down generation to generation. There isn't a written record kept anywhere other than individual family trees and ancestry information.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's maintained now as word of mouth, family to family, oral tradition. For families that are Levites or Kohens they receive a special honor in the ceremonial reading of the Torah; so, it's easy to know whether your family is among those lineages. For families that are in the Davidic line, it's also passed down generation to generation. There isn't a written record kept anywhere other than individual family trees and ancestry information.

thank you for giving your thoughts on the matter.
I believe some of it is oral tradition, or word of mouth, right? But before the temple was destroyed by the Romans, weren't written records kept in the temple?

 

[YoursTrue]

mary was the feminine aspect of christ, jesus was the masculine.

but then, colossians 3:11 says everyone is; which kind of agrees with john 21:15 and the lambs. when jesus asked peter to feed the lambs; he was speaking of christ. not everyone is aware of their true nature, the spirit of love. in some it is latent, in some it is growing, in others fully understood and revealed. love enlightens.


john 21:15

Interesting. Mary's parents were perfect? By the way, do you believe they evolved?

 

[YoursTrue]

It's maintained now as word of mouth, family to family, oral tradition. For families that are Levites or Kohens they receive a special honor in the ceremonial reading of the Torah; so, it's easy to know whether your family is among those lineages. For families that are in the Davidic line, it's also passed down generation to generation. There isn't a written record kept anywhere other than individual family trees and ancestry information.

The last perhaps potential messiah was M. Schneerson. Do you know his lineage from the first century CE?

 

[rational experiences]

Kings never existed.

First men not king's. Just humans before brothers got crowned.

Brain prickled burnt. Conscious mind changed by burning gas fallout.

Holy water past.
Ice the saviour future of both a cold gas cooled from hot gas and heated water cooled.

In heavens above life.

Theists men believed in falling star wisdom how to convert earths mass.

Copied it.

First they designed civilisation building by bully murderers. Slavery.

Became a position a man a rich man then a king. By crown on head.

Natural man first
Nasty brother became rich man king.
Rich man king invented thesis of science.

Rich man king owned lords in trade invention. Attacked their own life.

Write the testimonial.

First no religion or ceremony. Just natural family.

Rich man introduced poor man by changing natural equal man's life.

The human only truth.

If you quote I was a king first. It was before inventive science sacrificed life.

As both national DNA changed. As did human memory.

 

[dybmh]

thank you for giving your thoughts on the matter.
I believe some of it is oral tradition, or word of mouth, right? But before the temple was destroyed by the Romans, weren't written records kept in the temple?

It's a good question. I don't know, to be honest.

The last perhaps potential messiah was M. Schneerson. Do you know his lineage from the first century CE?

I don't know his lineage; but, while he was alive, the Rebbe was deeply committed to bringing "Mochiach Now!". He spoke of Mochiach as someone else, in the 3rd person.

 

[Clara Tea]

Jesus never was and never will be the messiah. Here is why.

He failed one of the first OT prophecies which was to be descended from king David and king Solomon. Genesis 49:10 states that the messiah would descend from king David's side and king Solomon in Chronicles 22:9-10. Jesus already failed this due to a virgin birth. Mary in the NT has no genealogy except for it being hinted at in Luke 1:34-36. The angel confirmed Mary is biologically blood related to Elizabeth. And Luke 1:5 clearly states that Elizabeth is descended from king Aaron. Therefore since Mary is blood related to Elizabeth, she also follows that lineage. So we can conclude Mary is descended from king Aaron of the Levi tribe. There is no mention other than this of her genealogy.


We can also disregard her being descended from king David and Solomon at this point and also because she is not mentioned anywhere in the NT that she was descended from those two anyway. Now, even though Joseph is descended from king David and Solomon, he is disqualified from having any affiliation with Jesus since he made no biological contribution to Jesus' birth as clearly mentioned in Matthew 1:22-25. Only after his birth did Mary and Joseph biologically "consummate." This is a clear indication that Jesus failed this OT prophecy.

What can we logically conclude from this fact alone? That Jesus is NOT the messiah. And I just made the case for Judaism that much stronger ironically...

Farfetched overlooked detail: If David was a descendent of God, and Jesus was a descendent of God, then both David and Jesus were descendents of God. So, Jesus would not be a descendent of David, but would be a cousin.

Still, I think that you have, indeed, proven that Jesus was not the Messiah. Yet, how do we know that the prophecy was correct about the House of David?

Much of the ancient Jewish religion was wiped out by the Egyptians, including the ancient Hebrew language. Jews pieced together their language (Hebrew) from memory, and it is somewhat like the old Hebrew language. So, they can "somewhat" understand the ancient texts.

Could the exact details of the prophecy of a Messiah have gotten lost over the years?

 

[PruePhillip]

Interesting. Mary's parents were perfect? By the way, do you believe they evolved?

The Jews say Jesus didn't tick the boxes, wonder what Shneerson ticked?

 

[PruePhillip]

mary was the feminine aspect of christ, jesus was the masculine.

but then, colossians 3:11 says everyone is; which kind of agrees with john 21:15 and the lambs. when jesus asked peter to feed the lambs; he was speaking of christ. not everyone is aware of their true nature, the spirit of love. in some it is latent, in some it is growing, in others fully understood and revealed. love enlightens.


john 21:15

The scripture is not concerned for whether you show femine, masculine, old, young, rich, poor, Jew, Gentile, black, white etc..
There is no masculine or feminine aspect to Christ - he came to show us God, not 21st Century sex politics.

 

[joelr]

The virgin birth theory was added later. Its a common belief among Pagan religions. Jesus never made any such claim. The Nazareth family that Jesus came out of had been an ordinary family apart from Marrys encounter with Gabriel and Josephs dream. Joseph and Mary would have been married and their first born Jesus was one of a number of children that they had.

We can see in the reaction that other members of the tiny village of Nazareth had towards Jesus when he returned during his public teaching.


The Rejection at Nazareth
(Mark 6:1–6; Luke 4:16–30)

53When Jesus had finished these parables, He withdrew from that place. 54Coming to His hometown, He taught the people in their synagogue, and they were astonished. “Where did this man get such wisdom and miraculous powers?” they asked. 55“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother’s name Mary, and aren’t His brothers James, Joseph,g Simon, and Judas? 56Aren’t all His sisters with us as well? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57And they took offense at Him.

But Jesus said to them, “Only in his hometown and in his own household is a prophet without honor.” 58And He did not do many miracles there, because of their unbelief.
The Rejection at Nazareth
(Mark 6:1–6; Luke 4:16–30)

There was NO indication in the community of Nazareth that Jesus was anything other than the legitimate son. However while conceived the natural way, I do fervently believe that the miracle of the Son of God becoming the person of Mary's baby at conception is the miracle of miracles.

There is no such thing as "pagan" religions. Virgin birth was from older myths. So was salvation, savior demigods, salvation, baptism, Heaven as a destination for redeemed souls, national God promoted to supreme God, God vs the Devil in a cosmic war, a 2nd coming of a messianic figure and a final battle where all followers get resurrected and live on Earth in paradise, all older myths from Greek and Persian religion. When Hellenism swept through that region all of the religions were Hellenized and adopted those myths. Christianity began calling the others pagan. But in reality they were so similar to Christianity 2nd century apologists had to tell people that the devil went back in time and made the other religions look that way to fool people.

None of those myths are in the OT except for late messianic prophecies. They were in Greek/Persian religion and during the 2nd Temple Period 500-100 BC, both cultures occupied Israel and greatly influenced their theology.

Joseph and Mary are just characters Mark came up with. Matthew added virgin born. The Persian world savior was to be virgin born of human parents.

 

[Fool]

Interesting. Mary's parents were perfect? By the way, do you believe they evolved?

mary's mother was anna. you're introduced to her in luke 2:36-38.

your sarcasm is duly noted

 

[YoursTrue]

True, in some ways Jesus was getting back to the basics of salvation by faith and for ALL of Gods children on earth. It wasn't so much that he was creating a "new way" but he was revealing something that we didn't know or a truth that had been lost from ancient times; the Son of God has always been the way to the Father. He was now on earth in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

Interesting that a voice from heaven was heard at Jesus' baptism when he was about 30 years old declaring that he was God's son. Thanks for your comment.

 

[Fool]

The scripture is not concerned for whether you show femine, masculine, old, young, rich, poor, Jew, Gentile, black, white etc..
There is no masculine or feminine aspect to Christ - he came to show us God, not 21st Century sex politics.

in the image of god he created them, male and female he created them.

fyi, the spirit is considered feminine as respects the shekinah in the OT.


if you understood the essenes and judaism, vs greek culture; which is what the nt was written in, you would understand that women could be prophets too. jesus was considered 1st a prophet.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2367724/jewish/Tzaddik.htm

 

[YoursTrue]

There is no such thing as "pagan" religions. Virgin birth was from older myths. So was salvation, savior demigods, salvation, baptism, Heaven as a destination for redeemed souls, national God promoted to supreme God, God vs the Devil in a cosmic war, a 2nd coming of a messianic figure and a final battle where all followers get resurrected and live on Earth in paradise, all older myths from Greek and Persian religion. When Hellenism swept through that region all of the religions were Hellenized and adopted those myths. Christianity began calling the others pagan. But in reality they were so similar to Christianity 2nd century apologists had to tell people that the devil went back in time and made the other religions look that way to fool people.

None of those myths are in the OT except for late messianic prophecies. They were in Greek/Persian religion and during the 2nd Temple Period 500-100 BC, both cultures occupied Israel and greatly influenced their theology.

Joseph and Mary are just characters Mark came up with. Matthew added virgin born. The Persian world savior was to be virgin born of human parents.

We know that historical records remain about Jesus (not too many other than the Bible but they're there) as well as that of the early Christians. They were not following a myth or giving up their lives for a myth. Much of history is lost anyway, and new discoveries are made from time to time about cities or places we never knew about previously. I believe the outline of history in the bible about Jesus.

 

[YoursTrue]

mary's mother was anna. you're introduced to her in luke 2:36-38.

your sarcasm is duly noted

sorry you feel that way.
I was not being sarcastic at all because the question is vital in reference to humankind and the claim that Anna and Mary were perfect. Sorry you feel it was sarcastic but it was not. Because if mankind evolved from an unknown common ape ancestor as scientists claim, how could anyone be immaculately conceived? Or not immaculately conceived. Please do not take that as sarcasm. But thank you.

 

[Colt]

There is no such thing as "pagan" religions. Virgin birth was from older myths. So was salvation, savior demigods, salvation, baptism, Heaven as a destination for redeemed souls, national God promoted to supreme God, God vs the Devil in a cosmic war, a 2nd coming of a messianic figure and a final battle where all followers get resurrected and live on Earth in paradise, all older myths from Greek and Persian religion. When Hellenism swept through that region all of the religions were Hellenized and adopted those myths. Christianity began calling the others pagan. But in reality they were so similar to Christianity 2nd century apologists had to tell people that the devil went back in time and made the other religions look that way to fool people.

None of those myths are in the OT except for late messianic prophecies. They were in Greek/Persian religion and during the 2nd Temple Period 500-100 BC, both cultures occupied Israel and greatly influenced their theology.

Joseph and Mary are just characters Mark came up with. Matthew added virgin born. The Persian world savior was to be virgin born of human parents.

Those are mostly ideas that you came up with.

 

[Colt]

Interesting that a voice from heaven was heard at Jesus' baptism when he was about 30 years old declaring that he was God's son. Thanks for your comment.

Yes, and in by belief that voice that Jesus heard was the Father within him that declared the truth about the identity of his Son.

 

[YoursTrue]

The virgin birth theory was added later. Its a common belief among Pagan religions. Jesus never made any such claim. The Nazareth family that Jesus came out of had been an ordinary family apart from Marrys encounter with Gabriel and Josephs dream. Joseph and Mary would have been married and their first born Jesus was one of a number of children that they had.

We can see in the reaction that other members of the tiny village of Nazareth had towards Jesus when he returned during his public teaching.


The Rejection at Nazareth
(Mark 6:1–6; Luke 4:16–30)

53When Jesus had finished these parables, He withdrew from that place. 54Coming to His hometown, He taught the people in their synagogue, and they were astonished. “Where did this man get such wisdom and miraculous powers?” they asked. 55“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother’s name Mary, and aren’t His brothers James, Joseph,g Simon, and Judas? 56Aren’t all His sisters with us as well? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57And they took offense at Him.

But Jesus said to them, “Only in his hometown and in his own household is a prophet without honor.” 58And He did not do many miracles there, because of their unbelief.
The Rejection at Nazareth
(Mark 6:1–6; Luke 4:16–30)

There was NO indication in the community of Nazareth that Jesus was anything other than the legitimate son. However while conceived the natural way, I do fervently believe that the miracle of the Son of God becoming the person of Mary's baby at conception is the miracle of miracles.

I am going to ask you the same question I asked Fool who thought I was being sarcastic. But I am not. Do you believe that all mankind evolved by natural selection slowly over time from ancestral beings, including others considered as unknown common ancestors? Did homo sapiens, including Mary, Anna and Jesus come about as part of the human race by evolution? It is absolutely important to know this. Are organisms by natural selection perfect and did Mary, Jesus and Anna one about as a product of evolutionary transmission from ancestral animals before humans are thought by many to have evolved?

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, and in by belief that voice that Jesus heard was the Father within him that declared the truth about the identity of his Son.

Well ok thanks for your response. I may not stay now online but yes, the question comes up about evolution and if men are descendants of an unknown apelike ancestor via the process of evolution and natural selection. Thanks for helping because it certainly affects how we see the situation.

 

[Colt]

I am going to ask you the same question I asked Fool who thought I was being sarcastic. But I am not. Do you believe that all mankind evolved by natural selection slowly over time from ancestral beings, including others considered as unknown common ancestors? Did homo sapiens, including Mary, Anna and Jesus come about as part of the human race by evolution? It is absolutely important to know this. Are organisms by natural selection perfect and did Mary, Jesus and Anna one about as a product of evolutionary transmission from ancestral animals before humans are thought by many to have evolved?

Yes, evolution was the technique of creation for our world. The human Jesus was the natural product of conception between Joseph and Marry. However the preexisting Son of God becoming the person of Mary's baby at conception was an unfathomable miracle.

Adam and Eve arrived on an earth that was already populated and fallen. The "crafty beast" was already evil, already working against Gods will for the pair. Cain feared people out in the world away from his own. He went to Nod and found a wife.