I know not all Muslims are Islamists, but...

[Pastek]

The issue unlike commonly thought is not that there are a small percentage of Muslims who are extremist but that there is a greater majority who support it. The reason why extremism is not being attacked is primarily because no Muslim wishes to do anything about it as they side with the extremist by heart.
Muslims are taught to never speak ill of other Muslims although many do when it comes to claiming certain ones as heretics.

What the hell are you talking about ?

 

[F0uad]

What the hell are you talking about ?

He pretends that he is a Ex-Muslim and speaks on the behalf of all Muslims nowadays, this is not the first time.

 

[Assad91]

The issue unlike commonly thought is not that there are a small percentage of Muslims who are extremist but that there is a greater majority who support it. The reason why extremism is not being attacked is primarily because no Muslim wishes to do anything about it as they side with the extremist by heart.

Wow, so you can see what is in the majority of Muslims hearts? How nice.

And again, already been through this. THe Majority of MUslims do denounce terrorism and extremism. I even posted a few links to just simply touch the subject. I guess they too were overlooked how convenient

Muslims are taught to never speak ill of other Muslims although many do when it comes to claiming certain ones as heretics. You see this in Indonesia and Malaysia all the time in regards to Ahmadis and al-Arqam supporters.

What a lie. We Muslims are to speak against all injustice. And are allowed to speak against fellow Muslims who do wrong. Maybe when you was a muslim, if you had listioned to more then Saudi inspired scholars who seem to have the past time of denouncing all who disagree as heretics, you would know better.

Muslims and Christians both have agendas but the issue is that one thrives in a secular world while the other does not.This obviously creates violence and chaos.
This cannot be helped and it is the product of society and the religion built from it.

What a load of lies again. Nothing in Islam prohibits secular education and teaching. Muslims once thrived and made great strides in secular education and research. Still to this day, one of the top Sunni schools, Al-Azhar, teaches both Islamic education and secular. We simply have a problem of those who think secular education is haram. Which comes from colonial times, when Muslims after being humiliated decided all western influences were bad, as they were imposed on them.

 

[Falvlun]

I thought this was a good opinion article:

The Problem of Muslim Leadership

Of course, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not terrorists or sympathetic to terrorists. Equating all Muslims with terrorism is stupid and wrong. But acknowledging that there is a link between Islam and terror is appropriate and necessary.

This week, Prime Minister David Cameron and London Mayor Boris Johnson have repeated the reassuring statements of the Muslim leaders to the effect that Lee Rigby’s murder has nothing to do with Islam.

But many ordinary people hear such statements and scratch their heads in bewilderment. A murderer kills a young father while yelling “Allahu akbar” and it’s got nothing to do with Islam?

This disconnect is a problem because it simply doesn't ring true. We need a better narrative to explain these attacks; claiming that they have nothing to do with Islam just doesn't cut the mustard. But, as the author continues, we still need to make it clear that all Muslims are not terrorists, and that Islam is not intrinsically a dangerous religion:

I don’t blame Western leaders. They are doing their best to keep the lid on what could become a meltdown of trust between majority populations and Muslim minority communities.

But I do blame Muslim leaders. It is time they came up with more credible talking points. Their communities have a serious problem. Young people, some of whom are not born into the faith, are being fired up by preachers using basic Islamic scripture and mobilized to wage jihad by radical imams who represent themselves as legitimate Muslim clergymen.

I wonder what would happen if Muslim leaders like Julie Siddiqi started a public and persistent campaign to discredit these Islamist advocates of mayhem and murder. Not just uttering the usual laments after another horrifying attack, but making a constant, high-profile effort to show the world that the preachers of hate are illegitimate. After the next zealot has killed the next victim of political Islam, claims about the “religion of peace” would ring truer.

I wonder too. I think this is an excellent suggestion. Let the PSAs roll!

 

[Octavia156]

One who does not deserve capital punishment

so are people who speak out against Islam innocent?

 

[Octavia156]

Pfft, You got muslims bending over everytime a terrorist attack happens, in order to apologize. How many times does leaders, and memebers have to ******* apologize to be good enough? Or do you wish for soem muslims come and drop to your knees? Get the **** out of here.

how old are you? - you sound about 18 with all your swearing and agression, makes you look a bit immature.....



Yeh I think Muslims should bend over in apology everytime a terroist attack happens in their name.

Just as the pope had to bend over backwards to apologise for his paedophile priests.

And as this man points out - there are plenty of places you can live if you want to live under Islamic rule:
[youtube]i6Zk6CK9TU4[/youtube]
Christopher Hitchens - Islamic Sharia Law - YouTube

 

[Octavia156]

The issue unlike commonly thought is not that there are a small percentage of Muslims who are extremist but that there is a greater majority who support it. The reason why extremism is not being attacked is primarily because no Muslim wishes to do anything about it as they side with the extremist by heart.
Muslims are taught to never speak ill of other Muslims although many do when it comes to claiming certain ones as heretics. You see this in Indonesia and Malaysia all the time in regards to Ahmadis and al-Arqam supporters.
For example when Scott Lively subtly introduced Ugandans to the opposition of homosexuality through fear mongering it made them desire a bill to treat homosexuals as felony criminals. This was kept extremely quiet amongst the Christian community because quite a few of them agreed with him and Pat Robinson was assuredly one of them. Muslims and Christians both have agendas but the issue is that one thrives in a secular world while the other does not.This obviously creates violence and chaos.
This cannot be helped and it is the product of society and the religion built from it.

Intersting point.

You might like this, takes a similar position to you:

[youtube]an7TaDQ5Yo0[/youtube]
Christopher Hitchens on Islam - YouTube

 

[Assad91]

how old are you? - you sound about 18 with all your swearing and agression, makes you look a bit immature.....



Yeh I think Muslims should bend over in apology everytime a terroist attack happens in their name.

Just as the pope had to bend over backwards to apologise for his paedophile priests.

And as this man points out - there are plenty of places you can live if you want to live under Islamic rule:

As I mentiooned, Muslim leaders AND lay Muslim DO apologize. What else can we do so we don't have to be accused? Press statements, public apologies, condemnations, fatwas, education programs, etc from our leaders is not good enough? Twitter post, social media campaigns, social campaigns (my jihad ring a bell?), etc, are not good enough?

Well than what else? Do you expect us to make extremism disappear magically? We do a lot as is.

And why the random reminder of sharia countries? I made no mention of wanting to live under state enforced sharia. It wasnt even part of my post you replied to. Why did you post it this random inflammatory reminder?

 

[Assad91]

I think some people just want Islam to be the boogie man, to direct hatred towards. Its the only conclusion after posting with facts that show these accusations to be untrue and unfair. Still hold onto the lies as if no proof has been given. Posting random inflammatory rhetoric that comes from assuming things..

 

[LuisDantas]

I thought this was a good opinion article:

The Problem of Muslim Leadership





This disconnect is a problem because it simply doesn't ring true. We need a better narrative to explain these attacks; claiming that they have nothing to do with Islam just doesn't cut the mustard. But, as the author continues, we still need to make it clear that all Muslims are not terrorists, and that Islam is not intrinsically a dangerous religion:





I wonder too. I think this is an excellent suggestion. Let the PSAs roll!

NOW we are cooking with gas! Excellent post, Falvlun.

Edited to add: a more complete, easily accessible version of the article's text seems to be at http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323475304578503613890263762.html

 

[Pastek]

I think some people just want Islam to be the boogie man, to direct hatred towards. Its the only conclusion after posting with facts that show these accusations to be untrue and unfair. Still hold onto the lies as if no proof has been given. Posting random inflammatory rhetoric that comes from assuming things..

The fact that their compatriote died in that kind of manner, make that people wants some culprits.
Also, not understanding/liking a specific religion make it worse

I can understand Octavia in a sens, but don't like what said Sterling Archer which is complete ********

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Again ...

From WIKIPEDIA:

The Muslim wars of imperialist conquest have been launched for almost 1,500 years against hundreds of nations, over millions of square miles (significantly larger than the British Empire at its peak). The lust for Muslim imperialist conquest stretched from southern France to the Philippines, from Austria to Nigeria, and from central Asia to New Guinea. This is the classic definition of imperialism -- "the policy and practice of seeking to dominate the economic and political affairs of weaker countries."

Could we get the "from WIKIPEDIA" link?

... i.e., the WIKIPEDIA [sic] link for the above assertion.

 

[F0uad]

Using Christopher Hitchen about religion just shows how much you know about religion in general.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Intersting point.

You might like this, takes a similar position to you:

[youtube]an7TaDQ5Yo0[/youtube]
Christopher Hitchens on Islam - YouTube

Nobody is willing to cast down a true blooded shaykh apparently. Muslims (primarily Sunni) refuse to denounce other Sunni Muslims and especially shaykhs who preach hatred.
I made a thread in regards to this exposing Bilal Phillips a fairly well known Islamic teacher who is well received. Nobody answered the thread at all. He has been used numerous times on Islamic forums and sites and the fact he teaches violence, bigotry, hatred and extremist views goes unnoticed.
No Muslim will speak against a well received Islamic scholar. Muslims claim to have no clergy but these shaykh hold authoritative commands in their words and all Muslims take heed of them.
This is just an utter pity and the sad part is I have cut all ties to all of my Muslim friends as of now. I had my heart entirely broken by overhearing a friend behind my back.
This means I know of at least 60 people who agree with some form of extremist Islam. Whether it be politics or social issues they have agreed to it.
I do not ask for Muslims to denounce violence, I just wish of them to denounce those that teach and practice it. I know of many peaceful Muslims but I know that a larger number do not care about the violence or subtly support the extremism by heart. I do not hate Muslims for this but I admit I am becoming annoyed by it.
They rally over general unoffensive images being drawn of Muhammad but do not rally to raise awareness to stop violence.

 

[Pastek]

I made a thread in regards to this exposing Bilal Phillips a fairly well known Islamic teacher who is well received. Nobody answered the thread at all. He has been used numerous times on Islamic forums and sites and the fact he teaches violence, bigotry, hatred and extremist views goes unnoticed.

A 1h30 video...
He's not an international famous Sheikh just because some people uploaded some of his videos or talked about him in forums.
It doesn't mean the majority of muslims know him.

No Muslim will speak against a well received Islamic scholar. Muslims claim to have no clergy but these shaykh hold authoritative commands in their words and all Muslims take heed of them.

Proof ?
I suggest you to know much more the muslims before making such claims.

If you don't like Islam or muslims it's your right.
If you've had bad experiences with some muslims and you're angry, it's ok.

But don't generalise and don't talk about things you're not sure or don't know enought about.

 

[Assad91]

Nobody is willing to cast down a true blooded shaykh apparently. Muslims (primarily Sunni) refuse to denounce other Sunni Muslims and especially shaykhs who preach hatred.

That is such a lie.

I made a thread in regards to this exposing Bilal Phillips a fairly well known Islamic teacher who is well received. Nobody answered the thread at all. He has been used numerous times on Islamic forums and sites and the fact he teaches violence, bigotry, hatred and extremist views goes unnoticed.
No Muslim will speak against a well received Islamic scholar.

So you make all these generalizations because you are butt hurt that nobody posted on your thread? Maybe Bilal Phillips isn't that known around here? I can barely watch his little 5 min videos, why would I watch all those videos you posted so I could respond? Yeah no.

 

[Octavia156]

Most of Muslims are part of your culture. How can British muslims not respect your culture? lol

In today's paper I was yet again saddened and disappointed to learn that a load of beautiful war memorials in London had been vandalised with the word ISLAM sprayed painted all over them. Noone who died in service to their conutry deserves their memorials vandalised.
This is disrespectful to our culture.

Likewise the Muslims who 'protested' at the funeral-esque parades at Wooden Bassett - where our dead soldiers are flown to. Horrible for the griveing family to hear British Muslims shouting hatred or stuff like "you deserved it" at the coffins.

This is disrepectful of our culture.

Or yesterday in the news - 3 muslim inmates held a prison guard hostage for 4 hours in reaction to the prison holding prayers for Lee Rigby, the soldier that was beheaded.

I'm not sure how this behaviour would be treated in the US.... but in the UK we seem to just take it on the chin.

Apologies for the out of contect Sharia vid - I thought it was in response to something you had written 5 pages back but I was mistaken... you had told me to "get the **** out of here" - which was rather rude and immature. Thats probably why I posted it.... as, understandably, its kinda the sentiment I feel towards *certain* Muslims living in Britian right now!

 

[Octavia156]

Using Christopher Hitchen about religion just shows how much you know about religion in general.

Perhaps you are right - he knows far far more than me!!! :bow:

 

[Assad91]

In today's paper I was yet again saddened and disappointed to learn that a load of beautiful war memorials in London had been vandalised with the word ISLAM sprayed painted all over them. Noone who died in service to their conutry deserves their memorials vandalised.
This is disrespectful to our culture.

Any proof it was done by muslims?

Likewise the Muslims who 'protested' at the funeral-esque parades at Wooden Bassett - where our dead soldiers are flown to. Horrible for the griveing family to hear British Muslims shouting hatred or stuff like "you deserved it" at the coffins.

That is a shame. Here its only WBC who does that.

Or yesterday in the news - 3 muslim inmates held a prison guard hostage for 4 hours in reaction to the prison holding prayers for Lee Rigby, the soldier that was beheaded.

This is disrepectful of our culture.

They are crimininals. Hopefully they will be thrown in the hole then. BUt I see no reason to blame all Muslims

Apologies for the out of contect Sharia vid - I thought it was in response to something you had written 5 pages back but I was mistaken... you had told me to "get the **** out of here" - which was rather rude and immature. Thats probably why I posted it.... as, understandably, its kinda the sentiment I feel towards *certain* Muslims living in Britian right now!

I guess you Brits don't have such a phrase. It isn't a literal thing as in "get out of our country". But it doesn't surprise me you have xenophobic feelings. I guess I should feel pity. But you didn't answer my question. Not all British Muslims do these things. What about the law abiding, peaceful Muslims? Or are you going to cite the rowdy ******** and apply them to all?

And it sounds like the fringe of Muslims want to fight with the, hopefully, fringe of Brits who wish to fight the Muslims. Setting fire to Masjids and attacking random Muslims.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In today's paper I was yet again saddened and disappointed to learn that a load of beautiful war memorials in London had been vandalised with the word ISLAM sprayed painted all over them. Noone who died in service to their conutry deserves their memorials vandalised.
This is disrespectful to our culture.

Likewise the Muslims who 'protested' at the funeral-esque parades at Wooden Bassett - where our dead soldiers are flown to. Horrible for the griveing family to hear British Muslims shouting hatred or stuff like "you deserved it" at the coffins.

This is disrepectful of our culture.

Or yesterday in the news - 3 muslim inmates held a prison guard hostage for 4 hours in reaction to the prison holding prayers for Lee Rigby, the soldier that was beheaded.

I'm not sure how this behaviour would be treated in the US.... but in the UK we seem to just take it on the chin.

Apologies for the out of contect Sharia vid - I thought it was in response to something you had written 5 pages back but I was mistaken... you had told me to "get the **** out of here" - which was rather rude and immature. Thats probably why I posted it.... as, understandably, its kinda the sentiment I feel towards *certain* Muslims living in Britian right now!

Why not take a break from further rabid quote-mining at least long enough to respond to post #172?