I think Islam is a totalitarian ideology with a religious facet.

[icehorse]

SW - I think there's merit in your idea here, but I think the seeds of the change are older than what you're saying here. The Wahabi influence for example is more than 100 years old.

I also think that over the last 500 years or so Christians have been quicker (although by no means *quick*), to give ground to science, and that's also put Islam behind the times.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I also think that over the last 500 years or so Christians have been quicker (although by no means *quick*), to give ground to science, and that's also put Islam behind the times.

500 years ago the Church put Galileo under house arrest for saying the sun is the center the of solar system. Science didn't really take off until the Enlightenment, when deism, atheism, and agnosticism became more common and people could publish writings concerning without fear of legal repercussions, as states were leaning increasingly more towards secularism.

 

[outhouse]

Ultimately, that's what Islam is, a complete way of life.

That's the problem. By some peoples view it is severe fanaticism to live ancient men's mythology that had little understanding of nature.

what is wrong with that?

Required fanaticism and severe fundamentalism that refuses academia and knowledge.

It once was the global center for learning and scientific advancement. It is no longer, and now far from it.


So I ask you why is that? is it the refusal of knowledge and academia to live this religion?

 

[outhouse]

to give ground to science, and that's also put Islam behind the times.

Ill take it further. Some of us have studied history and learned mans mythological errors it has made in the past living mythology.

Some countries give its people freedom to grow from what I call primitive mythology.

So it was the environment that gave us freedom not the religion per say.


Here in the USA we have a severe fanaticism problem that fights academia. Luckily we teach the children because we know the parents no matter how solid facts are, sadly will not change their minds.

We are literally letting the old ways die out and addressing what we can, via the classroom and TV.

You notice there are no TV shows on the wonders of creation

But plenty showing the universe and evolution.

 

[Aquitaine]

Mysogyny is a Western problem not Islaamic.

In Islaam gays can be gays as long as there is no sodomizing.


Islaam is an Semitic religion, it comes from Semites. You are talking nonsense.



Muslims actually brought science back in Medieval times. So again another bullcrap claim.


Marriage is only allowed after puberty. I wouldnt call 16 year olds children.


Aid for what? You are not making sense whatsoever.




What is 'championing of suffering'?

Islam does promote mysogyny, it isn't limited to just "the west".
Saying you accept homosexuals but forbid them from expressing their sexuality is kind of contradictory to say the least, that would be like saying "in the west muslims can be muslim so long as they don't follow Islam".
Your prophet was a pedophile.
The Medieval period was how many centuries ago? Not to mention it is argued that most of Islam's Golden Age happened via the Abbasid Caliphate, and not necessarily Islam in itself.

 

[Kirran]

The majority of the world's Muslims would prefer to be ruled by Sharia. On the other hand, while I would agree that there are probably a handful of "Muslim secularists", I'd have to guess that as a percentage, they would be a tiny percentage.

Yes, a minority. But it nevertheless exists.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I think religion in general must be marginalized. I'm most concerned with the negative influences that Abrahamic religions have on the world, and of those, I'm most concerned with Islam.

Ibrahim did not provide for the humanitarian religion
Ibrahim Old idea of humanity
Namely, that the Creator of the universe has one
I hope that the Atkhalt between Ibrahim who carried this idea and between Islam, which is different from the ideology of Abraham
Islam does not belong to Abraham

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Islam does not mean peace
It is common mistakes
Islam means surrender
And the teachings of Islam is not peace
He ideology of thought
And military and combat

 

[Robert Landbeck]

I think religion in general must be marginalized. I'm most concerned with the negative influences that Abrahamic religions have on the world, and of those, I'm most concerned with Islam.

Given that, I think the first mistake we make is to declare Islam to be a "religion". That's a misnomer.

Instead, we should be honest and simply say that:
Islam is a totalitarian ideology with a religious component.

If that is the case, and I am not disputing the suggestion, why is Christianity anything more than neo-paganism with a theological spin on top? There was a time when the early church was just as totalitarian as Islam is today. Think crusades or inquisition. The early Roman church always had tyrannical ambitions for absolute political power, and some would suggest, however implausible, it still does! Happily for the world, that was ripped from their grasp by history and their own incompetence.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

That's the problem. By some peoples view it is severe fanaticism to live ancient men's mythology that had little understanding of nature.



Required fanaticism and severe fundamentalism that refuses academia and knowledge.

It once was the global center for learning and scientific advancement. It is no longer, and now far from it.


So I ask you why is that? is it the refusal of knowledge and academia to live this religion?

How do you work that one out? Islam told us the world was round, in fact, a particular shape, like an ostrich egg (the earth is not entirely spherical, as any physicist on earth would tell you) well over 500 years before the vast majority of humanity knew that to be true. Does this not show an understanding of nature? Would you maybe like to admit you were wrong on that regard? Because you quite clearly were, unless you could show me verses of the Quran claiming the world was flat...as was the accepted knowledge throughout academia at the time. I'll be waiting. In fact, if you can prove me otherwise, I will quite easily disown my faith.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Islam does not mean peace
It is common mistakes
Islam means surrender
And the teachings of Islam is not peace
He ideology of thought
And military and combat

Entirely wrong. Islam, as is often the case with many Arabic words, has a root word, in this case Salam, which means...yes you guessed it, peace but, something else which is a case with arabic, a single word can mean an entire sentence in english or many other languages and the literal translation of Islam is:

To obtain peace by submitting one's will to Allah.

This one word gives us an explanation on how to obtain peace, saying something or someone is peaceful is not enough, it is also important that we understand how to achieve that peace. And we do not submit our will to any worldly figure, or a worldly ideology, or a military force, or an economic force and so on and so forth. We submit ourselves to God, which is more than just saying "ah yeah, I'm a muslim" but that requires from us, 5 daily prayers, fasting, pilgrimage, giving money and help to the poor, obtaining education, spreading the truth, looking after the orphaned and the elderly, all these things are done and then we can say we have submitted ourselves to Allah. And in all these selfless acts, we find peace.

 

[leibowde84]

What is the negative influence?

Separation from the modern world and the global economy. Bad for everyone, as it encourages separation.

 

[icehorse]

TC -

I think you left a few things out of your vision:

1 - You gotta deal with those billions of non-believers that the Quran teaches you - 500 times - to despise.
2 - You also have to submit to a theocracy; fallible humans who will curtail what you can hear and say.
3 - This theocracy will also interpret Islam in ways that you might not agree with, but you will be forced to submit.
4 - Your world will sink back into primitive times as your theocracy disagrees with science and modernity.

In a word, you must give up your mind.

 

[Useless2015]

Islam does promote mysogyny, it isn't limited to just "the west".
Saying you accept homosexuals but forbid them from expressing their sexuality is kind of contradictory to say the least, that would be like saying "in the west muslims can be muslim so long as they don't follow Islam".
Your prophet was a pedophile.
The Medieval period was how many centuries ago? Not to mention it is argued that most of Islam's Golden Age happened via the Abbasid Caliphate, and not necessarily Islam in itself.

Islaam teaches women to dress with modesty, in the West women are taught to dress like escorts.
Homosexuality is the test God gave them, not acting on it is rewarding.
You can't really call someone a pedophile if it was the norm 1400 years ago.
And explain why science at one point was encouraged in Islaam? Why would it not be allowed now? Whats the Islaamic reason?

 

[Useless2015]

Separation from the modern world and the global economy. Bad for everyone, as it encourages separation.

Can you name some examples?

 

[leibowde84]

Can you name some examples?

Modesty, marriage to adherents to other faiths/no-faith not encouraged, and the idea that all people be united under one religion.

 

[leibowde84]

Islaam teaches women to dress with modesty, in the West women are taught to dress like escorts.

This is actually a great example. Most women in the west are "taught" to dress with modesty, and they do, in actuality. Just go out in DC on any weekday, and you will see. Obviously, there are exceptions, but there is no real reason to think of any harm being done. Muslims should dress the way they want, and even escorts should dress the way they want. Neither should judge the other. That being said, modesty is a subjective term. What is modest to some, might not be modest to others. Thus, this attitude of judging your opinion of immodesty is a MAJOR ISSUE. Also, I think we should encourage committed relationships, no matter whether they are homosexual or heterosexual. There is a lot to be gained by committing yourself to another. But, again, you judge homosexuality as being "wrong" or "inappropriate", going by mere religious beliefs not shared by most. Again, this causes a MAJOR ISSUE.

People should be free to be modest or immodest in their dress. We should applaud freedom of choice. People shoudl be able to be with the person they want to, assuming both consent legally. We should applaud freedom of choice. If you think these things go against God's will, that is your prerogative. But, your opinion on the matter is no more valuable than anyone else's. This is the main problem I see with religious adherence in general. It creates a plethora of unneeded and unwarranted judgment.

 

[outhouse]

Does this not show an understanding of nature?

NO, it shows an understanding of dead luck.

Would you maybe like to admit you were wrong on that regard?

NO. I also stated "very little" not completely ignorant.

So your saying no part of the koran contains mythology?

 

[outhouse]

You can't really call someone a pedophile if it was the norm 1400 years ago.

Normal does not make it right when you hurt children.

Normal was to copy religious tradition from previous cultures and claim god told you new information.

Do you think it was OK to copy biblical mythology?

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

NO, it shows an understanding of dead luck.



NO. I also stated "very little" not completely ignorant.

So your saying no part of the koran contains mythology?

How many times can one be lucky? As a medical student, I know, very well in fact, the procedure of embryonic development. It is exceptionally well put in the Quran. As is the fact that the earth orbits the sun. In fact, the Quran tells us that the sun itself moves, a fact not discovered until many, many centuries after the revelation of the Quran. How many times can one be lucky and absolutely spot on? Your argument can hold no weight until you bring proof that the Quran has no understanding of nature. As I have brought you clear evidence of it's understanding of nature.