i think jesus was confused...or maybe luke and john were

[sincerly]

john is the only gospel that stipulates this notion.

the synoptic gospels do not....

So what does that have to do with the price of corn in Europe?

then why do believers still get sick?

Believers are still human and vulnerable to the conditions of this world; just as are non-believers.

what did yeshua teach...? there is no way of knowing...
it's the gnostics edited theology vs main stream edited theology.

Just as Jesus said of the O.T. writings----"It is written". "Search the scriptures---they testify of me".

 

[waitasec]

So what does that have to do with the price of corn in Europe?

that jesus was confused or maybe luke and john were...

Believers are still human and vulnerable to the conditions of this world; just as are non-believers.

so whats the real difference between a believer and a non believer?
a right to be arrogant?

Just as Jesus said of the O.T. writings----"It is written". "Search the scriptures---they testify of me".

circular logic doesn't go far.

 

[waitasec]

Just as you have previously posted, the disciples were looking for Jesus to "restore the kingdom of Israel" from the rule of the Roman Empire.

according to john 15:15 the disciples knew that he was to be crucified

 

[waitasec]

That was Matt.21:17; and had you read the incontext content you would not had concluded that Jesus was on the run from HIS hour of betrayal and willing sacrifice. (or at that time.) He returned to the city the next morning. Wrong! Again.

i see you are still in denial that jesus was a man on the run...
all throughout his ministry...

pretty impressive god you got there

 

[sincerly]

according to john 15:15 the disciples knew that he was to be crucified

That's correct---Matt.26:2, "Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified."

 

[waitasec]

That's correct---Matt.26:2, "Ye know that after two days is [the feast of] the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified."

knowing jesus was to be handed over to the jewish authorities
and then asking if they should prevent that from happening is a contradiction...

oops

 

[sincerly]

knowing jesus was to be handed over to the jewish authorities
and then asking if they should prevent that from happening is a contradiction...

oops

No Oops or contradiction. Just a misconception of the mission of Jesus. The disciple's mistaken idea was to free Israel from Roman rule(Acts1:6). Again, Jesus "Hour had come" and IT could not have been prevented and the Disciples had no Authority to "prevent" or "hand over" Jesus to the Mob.

 

[sincerly]

that jesus was confused or maybe luke and john were...

To the contrary, because only one writer included a detail doesn't mean the other writers were wrong or right. It only means that detail/item/fact/piece of information was OR was not in the writing. It has nothing to do with "confusion". That's your false claim.

so whats the real difference between a believer and a non believer?
a right to be arrogant?

From your posts it would seem so.

circular logic doesn't go far.

You seem to have gotten this thread to over 300 post by your erroneous "circular logic".

 

[waitasec]

that jesus was confused or maybe luke and john were...

To the contrary, because only one writer included a detail doesn't mean the other writers were wrong or right. It only means that detail/item/fact/piece of information was OR was not in the writing.

a rather important detail that says THEY KNEW as THEIR ACTIONS DEFEATED the idea that THEY KNEW..

did they know jesus was supposed to be sacrificed on the cross for the betterment of humanity or not?
judging by their actions they didn't....so either jesus was confused or maybe luke and john were...

 

[sincerly]

a rather important detail that says THEY KNEW as THEIR ACTIONS DEFEATED the idea that THEY KNEW..

did they know jesus was supposed to be sacrificed on the cross for the betterment of humanity or not?
judging by their actions they didn't....so either jesus was confused or maybe luke and john were...

Nope. since you refuse to accept the Bible as a BOOK of truth, and continue to be duped by what was written by Ehrman and "Your own" erroneous Ideas, the Idea you are presenting is as old as the Fall of mankind.
Adam and EVE knew that they were not to eat of that tree, but they believed a lie as their "actions show". Which wasn't for the betterment of humanity, but/and they hadn't even begun to "be fruitful and multiply".
However, we living today certainly are able to see and reap the results.

It is still you who are "confused". You know----human beings have histotically shown by their actions that they know what is right/best. Prov.14:12, "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death."
What they know isn't allowed to over-ride that which they want to believe.

 

[waitasec]

Nope. since you refuse to accept the Bible as a BOOK of truth, and continue to be duped by what was written by Ehrman and "Your own" erroneous Ideas, the Idea you are presenting is as old as the Fall of mankind.
Adam and EVE knew that they were not to eat of that tree, but they believed a lie as their "actions show". Which wasn't for the betterment of humanity, but/and they hadn't even begun to "be fruitful and multiply".
However, we living today certainly are able to see and reap the results.

It is still you who are "confused". You know----human beings have histotically shown by their actions that they know what is right/best. Prov.14:12, "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death."

you know why i think the bible isn't the book of truth?
because of these types of inconsistencies...that and it's just a justification for bad behavior...just like anything else.

are you so desperate that you need to mention a literal interpretation of adam and eve? a story that was conjured up by goat herders thousands of years ago who didn't have the slightest notion about the psychology of this fable? really?

if the tree was the tree of knowledge of good and evil, could they tell the difference between good and evil BEFORE they partook of it? :no:
if disobedience is contingent on KNOWING the difference good and evil then why be held accountable...for being disobedience since they were unaware of the meaning of their actions?

ignorance is highly susceptible to manipulation...

and please do not equate ignorance to stupidity if you do i will barf out a lung...


we aren't talking about humans in history pal...we are discussing that the narrative is contradictory and self defeating especially when taken literally...
and for some reason it has to be taken literally...why? just because.

:ignore:

 

[sincerly]

you know why i think the bible isn't the book of truth?
because of these types of inconsistencies...that and it's just a justification for bad behavior...just like anything else.

are you so desperate that you need to mention a literal interpretation of adam and eve? a story that was conjured up by goat herders thousands of years ago who didn't have the slightest notion about the psychology of this fable? really?

if the tree was the tree of knowledge of good and evil, could they tell the difference between good and evil BEFORE they partook of it? :no:
if disobedience is contingent on KNOWING the difference good and evil then why be held accountable...for being disobedience since they were unaware of the meaning of their actions?

ignorance is highly susceptible to manipulation...

and please do not equate ignorance to stupidity if you do i will barf out a lung...


we aren't talking about humans in history pal...we are discussing that the narrative is contradictory and self defeating especially when taken literally...
and for some reason it has to be taken literally...why? just because.

:ignore:

I'm here existing today and so are you. You may choose to believe that your ancesters just popped out of nothing; but for me, Adam and Eve gave birth to the human Beings who inhabit this earth today. NO subforms. Thank-you. Not just because, but because of a living Creating GOD.

And "manipulation" by such as your posts produces more "ignorance" as to the true source of all things seen and was recorded for one admonition..

 

[waitasec]

I'm here existing today and so are you. You may choose to believe that your ancesters just popped out of nothing; but for me, Adam and Eve gave birth to the human Beings who inhabit this earth today. NO subforms. Thank-you. Not just because, but because of a living Creating GOD.

what does that have to do with sin?
if the tree was the tree of knowledge of good and evil, could they tell the difference between good and evil BEFORE they partook of it?
if disobedience is contingent on KNOWING the difference good and evil then why be held accountable...for being disobedience since they were unaware of the meaning of their actions?

And "manipulation" by such as your posts produces more "ignorance" as to the true source of all things seen and was recorded for one admonition..

now you're just being desperate....

as you continually avoid the questions


we are discussing that the narrative is contradictory and self defeating especially when taken literally...
and for some reason it has to be taken literally...why? just because.

 

[sincerly]

what does that have to do with sin?
if the tree was the tree of knowledge of good and evil, could they tell the difference between good and evil BEFORE they partook of it?
if disobedience is contingent on KNOWING the difference good and evil then why be held accountable...for being disobedience since they were unaware of the meaning of their actions?

It is called "disobedience"----which is declared to be sin. The "tree of knowledge" was just a test of their sincerity to have GOD as their GOD. Yes,Just as you know right actions from wrong actions----there was a command against that action.
Wrong! They were well aware of their actions and chose to believe a contrary source of information(much like you and Ehrman).

And "manipulation" by such as your posts produces more "ignorance" as to the true source of all things seen and was recorded for one's admonition..

Your reply:

now you're just being desperate....

Truth isn't desperate, just factual.

as you continually avoid the questions

I have "continually answered your questions"---but they don't agree with your erroneous beliefs.

we are discussing that the narrative is contradictory and self defeating especially when taken literally...
and for some reason it has to be taken literally...why? just because.

Truth is literal and the contradiction is in your beliefs and not of the Scriptures.

 

[waitasec]

It is called "disobedience"----which is declared to be sin.

disobedience is contingent on being aware of what good and evil mean.
sin...is not mentioned in this narrative.

The "tree of knowledge" was just a test of their sincerity to have GOD as their GOD. Yes,Just as you know right actions from wrong actions----there was a command against that action.

how could they be tested as beings who were unaware of the meaning
"thou shall not" when the understanding of good and evil were kept from them?

Wrong! They were well aware of their actions and chose to believe a contrary source of information(much like you and Ehrman).

explain how they were aware of the moral consequences if they couldn't tell between good and evil...

Truth isn't desperate, just factual.

then why resort to disclaimers and made up definitions of words?

I have "continually answered your questions"---but they don't agree with your erroneous beliefs.

no, your beliefs are erroneous...so there.

Truth is literal and the contradiction is in your beliefs and not of the Scriptures.

still avoiding the question:

did they know jesus was supposed to be sacrificed on the cross for the betterment of humanity or not?
judging by their actions they didn't....so either jesus was confused or maybe luke and john were...

 

[sincerly]

disobedience is contingent on being aware of what good and evil mean.
sin...is not mentioned in this narrative.

They had been told that to eat of the fruit of that tree would end in death.
Rom.5:14, "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

how could they be tested as beings who were unaware of the meaning
"thou shall not" when the understanding of good and evil were kept from them?

See above.

explain how they were aware of the moral consequences if they couldn't tell between good and evil...

See above. There is no "Sin" where there is no law. God's thus saith the Lord is law.

Truth isn't desperate, just factual.

your reply:

then why resort to disclaimers and made up definitions of words?

I,ve only disputed your erroneous claims with facts and the right definitions of words.

no, your beliefs are erroneous...so there.

We shall see.

still avoiding the question:

did they know jesus was supposed to be sacrificed on the cross for the betterment of humanity or not?
judging by their actions they didn't....so either jesus was confused or maybe luke and john were...

To the contrary, Knowing that Jesus was to be crucified was told them. Their actions were in response to their own agenda/beliefs concerning the restoration of the Nation of Israel from Roman rule.
Your erroneous claims are still what is confused.

 

[waitasec]

They had been told that to eat of the fruit of that tree would end in death.
Rom.5:14, "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

nevertheless sin...the awareness of doing wrong is contingent on knowing the difference

See above.





See above. There is no "Sin" where there is no law. God's thus saith the Lord is law.



your reply:


I,ve only disputed your erroneous claims with facts and the right definitions of words.

see above

We shall see.

will we?

To the contrary, Knowing that Jesus was to be crucified was told them. Their actions were in response to their own agenda/beliefs concerning the restoration of the Nation of Israel from Roman rule.
Your erroneous claims are still what is confused.

oh so they didn't want the restoration of israel...since this was the only way god would have it
makes sense :areyoucra

 

[sincerly]

nevertheless sin...the awareness of doing wrong is contingent on knowing the difference

James 4:17, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin." Adam and Eve knew the difference---They just had not suffered the consequences of that disobedience---as yet. They had been told the consequences of "wrong doing".
One doesn't have to experience the results of wrong actions to be aware of the consequences/differences of such actions. Obedience reflects Love, Respect, Honor, the Authority, etc. of the one who has decreed/commanded the "Thou shall not".

will we?

Yes, there is only an after-life for those whose "Beliefs" are in agreement with what GOD has said. With "NO GOD", there is only this life. There will be a Judgment of one's "beliefs/actions".

oh so they didn't want the restoration of israel...since this was the only way god would have it
makes sense :areyoucra

Nope! I didn't say nor hint that was my position. It has been you that denies that Peter drew the sword with that thought in mind.
God's plan hasn't been altered by HIM or Man.(Man has "thought" to change GOD'S times and Laws.)

 

[waitasec]

James 4:17, "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin." Adam and Eve knew the difference---They just had not suffered the consequences of that disobedience---as yet. They had been told the consequences of "wrong doing".
One doesn't have to experience the results of wrong actions to be aware of the consequences/differences of such actions. Obedience reflects Love, Respect, Honor, the Authority, etc. of the one who has decreed/commanded the "Thou shall not".

they didn't know good from evil....thusly they didn't know obeying was good.

Yes, there is only an after-life for those whose "Beliefs" are in agreement with what GOD has said. With "NO GOD", there is only this life. There will be a Judgment of one's "beliefs/actions".

unsupportable tripe

Nope! I didn't say nor hint that was my position. It has been you that denies that Peter drew the sword with that thought in mind.
God's plan hasn't been altered by HIM or Man.(Man has "thought" to change GOD'S times and Laws.)

but peter knew jesus sacrifice was the plan...yet peter and the others who asked to draw their swords all of a sudden forgot what it was they were looking out for when the betrayer arrived


this is a lame and laughable argument.

 

[sincerly]

they didn't know good from evil....thusly they didn't know obeying was good.

Are you saying that being told, "Ye shall surely die" was something "good"???

Yes, there is only an after-life for those whose "Beliefs" are in agreement with what GOD has said. With "NO GOD", there is only this life. There will be a Judgment of one's "beliefs/actions".

unsupportable tripe

If it is "unsupportable tripe"----what is your after-life to be like/supposed to represent?. Just dust???

but peter knew jesus sacrifice was the plan...yet peter and the others who asked to draw their swords all of a sudden forgot what it was they were looking out for when the betrayer arrived


this is a lame and laughable argument.

What has been a "lame and laughable argument" is the many posts which this thread has continued to be a merry-go-round with the many repeated false claims by you.
It has been shown you the multiple times Jesus told the disciples that HE was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. In none of those times, was it ever hinted that HIS disciples were to prevent it. Though it was asked, only Peter actually drew the sword and used it---without awaiting for permission to do so. Impulsively and acting on his own ideas.(The restoring the Nation of Israel.)
They were to be "looking out that they fall not into temptation." Peter failed miserably-- With the sword and denying his Lord/Master.