i think jesus was confused...or maybe luke and john were

[waitasec]

Are you saying that being told, "Ye shall surely die" was something "good"???

how were they to know if dying was something bad if they didn't know the difference between good and evil?

If it is "unsupportable tripe"----what is your after-life to be like/supposed to represent?. Just dust???

i don't know and i don't pretend to know...

What has been a "lame and laughable argument" is the many posts which this thread has continued to be a merry-go-round with the many repeated false claims by you.
It has been shown you the multiple times Jesus told the disciples that HE was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. In none of those times, was it ever hinted that HIS disciples were to prevent it. Though it was asked, only Peter actually drew the sword and used it---without awaiting for permission to do so. Impulsively and acting on his own ideas.(The restoring the Nation of Israel.)
They were to be "looking out that they fall not into temptation." Peter failed miserably-- With the sword and denying his Lord/Master.

Though it was asked,

:biglaugh:

and it has been shown to you multiple times that either jesus was confused or luke and john were...
as if they knew they were waiting to hand jesus over to the betrayer and then they all of sudden forgot why they were to keep watch but remembered to ask to draw their swords...?

all of this so that you can maintain the notion that jesus wasn't on the run
:clap brilliant...

 

[sincerly]

how were they to know if dying was something bad if they didn't know the difference between good and evil?

i don't know and i don't pretend to know...

Your second answer answers your first question. I know that to die is bad.(I still don't want to die and I've lived a full life span.)

and it has been shown to you multiple times that either jesus was confused or luke and john were...
as if they knew they were waiting to hand jesus over to the betrayer and then they all of sudden forgot why they were to keep watch but remembered to ask to draw their swords...?

all of this so that you can maintain the notion that jesus wasn't on the run
:clap brilliant...

It has been shown you the multiple times Jesus told the disciples that HE was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. In none of those times, was it ever hinted that HIS disciples were to prevent it. Though it was asked, only Peter actually drew the sword and used it---without awaiting for permission to do so. Impulsively and acting on his own ideas.(The restoring the Nation of Israel.)
They were to be "looking out that they fall not into temptation." Peter failed miserably-- With the sword and denying his Lord/Master

The Scriptures are plain---Jesus was ready to face that "hour had come for HIM to be Crucified". HE was NOT "on the run"---that is your false claim.
NO Matter how many times you repost those false claims---they will NOT ever be true.

 

[waitasec]

Your second answer answers your first question. I know that to die is bad.(I still don't want to die and I've lived a full life span.)

no it doesn't...
see what you so profoundly fail in understanding is that IF this is a literal interpretation we are post fall... adam and eve didn't know jack pre fall

It has been shown you the multiple times Jesus told the disciples that HE was going to Jerusalem to be crucified.

right...so either jesus was confused or luke and john were

 

[sincerly]

no it doesn't...
see what you so profoundly fail in understanding is that IF this is a literal interpretation we are post fall... adam and eve didn't know jack pre fall

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Back to the topic. What has been a "lame and laughable argument" is the many posts which this thread has continued to be a merry-go-round with the many repeated false claims by you.
It has been shown you the multiple times Jesus told the disciples that HE was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. In none of those times, was it ever hinted that HIS disciples were to prevent it.
Though it was asked, only Peter actually drew the sword and used it---without awaiting for permission to do so. Impulsively and acting on his own ideas.(The restoring the Nation of Israel.)
They were to be "looking out that they fall not into temptation." Peter failed miserably-- With the sword and denying his Lord/Master.
Also, your claim of Jesus asking the Disciples to watch and pray to prevent being arrested is/was a false claim. The "hour" for which Jesus came to earth had arrived and Jesus was carrying out the "Will of the Father".
Peter's action's didn't deter the prophesied, "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world".

Neither was Jesus nor the disciples "confused" concerning the fulfillment of the "Everlasting Gospel" and its fulfillment, and that is evidenced in the epistles following the "four Gosples".

And really, neither are you confused, because you have stated that you have chosen to view the Bible as myths, and Jesus???---just another human being?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Four gospels or one gospel with four writers?
The gospel according to Matthew
The gospel according to Mark
The gospel according to Luke
The gospel according to John
Not four separate gospels but one gospel written by four.
I suppose it could be correct grammar to make gospel plural.
My dictionary also only uses the word gospel as singular.

 

[Muffled]

right. the record that you go by cannot be validated.

however, there are irreconcilable differences because no one can validate what he said...see how that works?

then why did they attempt to prevent his arrest?
show me where jesus encouraged the disciples to flee...
as the narrative stands in john, jesus is supposedly a willing sacrifice while mark and matthew portray jesus as scared
as we read in thy synoptic gospels, he was hiding out, which is why he asked the disciples to stay awake..."to keep watch"
if jesus wasn't hiding out why did he ask the disciples to stay awake to watch him pray by himself...?

mark 14:34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”
35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him.

this is not consistent with the confident picture john paints of jesus

john 16:33 “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” 17:1 After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:
“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

2 very different scenes. fear in the synoptic narratives and not a word of fear in johns account. not one. read chapter 17...not even a mention of the sleepy disciples where in mark 14, matthew 26 and luke 22 it's an important part of the story. in the gospels jesus gets up 3 times to wake them up to watch him pray...? no. he wanted them to look out for the betrayer which is consistent as to why they asked to reach for their swords when they were caught.

by the time he was speaking to pilot it was over so of course there was no fighting...besides his disciples tried to prevent him from being arrested because every narrative says they did.

then why keep watch? and the the synoptic gospels all have him yelling, get up lets go here comes my betrayer!!

doesn't add up though...the point was to die in the flesh to be with god.
the disciples would be killed and their disciples would be killed...heck they were fed to the lions so i don't particularly understand your argument here.
what is the point of a growing church if the point is to die in the flesh, to get to heaven.

luke 12:32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom. 33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. 34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Please excuse my lapse into worldliness. The Holy Spirit validates His word.

The only one doing that was Peter and his problem is a lack of comprehension of the spiritual nature of the mission of Jesus. He is the one who was reprimanded by Jesus for denying that Jesus should be crucified when He told them in advance that it would happen.

John 18:8 Jesus answered, I told you that I am he; if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

Saying this to the temple guards effectively communicated to the disciples that He wished them to depart without being arrested.

I do not see any place where jesus is pictured as frightened. Apprehensive, no doubt seeing the great pain He would endure. It reminds me of sitting in the dentists office anticipating the pain. I wassn't afraid of the pain but it was not something I was looking forward to as a pleasant experience.

There is no such reference. Jesus already knew that Judas would betray Him and that Judas knew where to find Him.

This is the kind of watching that a person does at the bedside of a sick person who might die. If I become in that state, I would like someone to stand by me and pray with me.

It is different because two different scenes occur at different times. The John passage is in advance of the things to occur as stated here:

John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass,

However Jesus is not telling Pilot about what happened in the past but what the reality was in the present. Jesus wasn't forming an army to attack Rome and His desciples were well aware of the fact that He was going to the cross voluntarily.

A growing church was something that Jesus commanded the disciple to produce by preaching the Gospel. Having treasure in Heaven is not the same thing as going there. I have treasure in Heaven but I am still living here.

 

[Muffled]

here are some..
did jesus get kissed in john?
was he kissed in the synoptic gospels?

did jesus approach judas in the synoptic gospels?
did jesus approach judas in john?

in john, what is the focus of this scene in gethsemane, his prayer or waking up the disciples?
in the synoptics, what is the focus of this scene in gethsemane, his prayer or waking up the disciples?

what was jesus doing when judas arrived in the synoptic gospels...?
what was jesus doing when they were met up by judas in john?

These are not examples of the texts disagreeing but of the texts containing different information. If one witness says a man is wearing a red shirt and another says he was wearing blue pants the witnesses are not in disagreement but are just providing different peices of information.

 

[Muffled]

Do some reasearch on the authors.
Read the gospels and compare the stories.
Reasearch is fun!

I agree and waitasec causes me to do that but you do not because you simply talk off the top of your head without providing any proof. You might as well try to stop the wind by blowing against it.

 

[waitasec]

Please excuse my lapse into worldliness. The Holy Spirit validates His word.

that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation
what that tells me is, there's no standard to reason with.

The only one doing that was Peter and his problem is a lack of comprehension of the spiritual nature of the mission of Jesus. He is the one who was reprimanded by Jesus for denying that Jesus should be crucified when He told them in advance that it would happen.

the others asked if they should draw their swords....why would they ask that if they didn't lack comprehension to understand the spiritual nature of the mission of jesus?

John 18:8 Jesus answered, I told you that I am he; if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:

this little tid bit by the way, supports my argument.
in the synoptic gospels there is no mention of jesus telling those who were arresting him to leave his disciples alone as he wasn't kissed in the john's narrative...while in the synoptic gospels that was the sign...therefore the jesus character had to separate himself from the rest of the crew in john.

Saying this to the temple guards effectively communicated to the disciples that He wished them to depart without being arrested.

however that isn't fleeing....that isn't running away from a situation.

I do not see any place where jesus is pictured as frightened. Apprehensive, no doubt seeing the great pain He would endure. It reminds me of sitting in the dentists office anticipating the pain. I wassn't afraid of the pain but it was not something I was looking forward to as a pleasant experience.

matthew 26:38...“My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

mark 14:34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”
35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him.

luke 22:42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[c]

now please show me a passage in john where jesus is distressed to the point of sweating blood where in john does jesus say 'not my will but yours be done' in the prayer he prayed right before his arrest?

There is no such reference. Jesus already knew that Judas would betray Him and that Judas knew where to find Him.

then why ask them to keep watch while he prayed...
apparently jesus the god man needed assistance with his omniscient powers and needed his disciples to be on the look out...where as he was able to predict peter's denial..it doesn't add up. :no:
mark 14:34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”
watch for what? there is nothing to watch out for if they were waiting to hand jesus over to the authorities...let the authorities do all the work...
if jesus was the willful sitting duck

This is the kind of watching that a person does at the bedside of a sick person who might die. If I become in that state, I would like someone to stand by me and pray with me.

but you are not jesus the god man.

It is different because two different scenes occur at different times. The John passage is in advance of the things to occur as stated here:

i wonder how much time jesus was experiencing this wide range of feelings from the last supper up until his arrest? are we talking a few hours
where jesus was either happy go lucky or sweating blood from fear. it doesn't add up.

However Jesus is not telling Pilot about what happened in the past but what the reality was in the present. Jesus wasn't forming an army to attack Rome and His desciples were well aware of the fact that He was going to the cross voluntarily.

regardless, the narratives say they wanted to prevent his arrest...

 

[waitasec]

These are not examples of the texts disagreeing but of the texts containing different information. If one witness says a man is wearing a red shirt and another says he was wearing blue pants the witnesses are not in disagreement but are just providing different peices of information.

different information that contradict each other no less.

how can he walk up to the authorities and say that he is jesus
while he's talking to his disciples to stay awake?

how can he be kissed and not kissed at the same time?

 

[waitasec]

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

:spit: iow, you understand how flawed your argument is...
all this time you finally decide it's off topic... a lame bow out i must say.

Back to the topic. What has been a "lame and laughable argument" is the many posts which this thread has continued to be a merry-go-round with the many repeated false claims by you.

your argument is a false claim.
you have failed to show how everything i have presented to you is to be reconciled...
no amount of magic tape can help you fix the obvious problem that the synoptic gospels and the gospel of john are contradictory
:sorry1:

It has been shown you the multiple times Jesus told the disciples that HE was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. In none of those times, was it ever hinted that HIS disciples were to prevent it.

are you arguing with yourself AGAIN?
:areyoucra
that was never something i was arguing against...

Though it was asked, only Peter actually drew the sword and used it---without awaiting for permission to do so. Impulsively and acting on his own ideas.(The restoring the Nation of Israel.)
They were to be "looking out that they fall not into temptation." Peter failed miserably-- With the sword and denying his Lord/Master.
Also, your claim of Jesus asking the Disciples to watch and pray to prevent being arrested is/was a false claim. The "hour" for which Jesus came to earth had arrived and Jesus was carrying out the "Will of the Father".
Peter's action's didn't deter the prophesied, "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world".

in light of the knowledge of the importance of waiting to hand jesus over to the authorities...why the hell ask to draw their swords to prevent that from happening?

Neither was Jesus nor the disciples "confused" concerning the fulfillment of the "Everlasting Gospel" and its fulfillment, and that is evidenced in the epistles following the "four Gosples".

right thats why each narrative fits like a glove...not.

And really, neither are you confused, because you have stated that you have chosen to view the Bible as myths, and Jesus???---just another human being?

i fail to see how this has anything to do with the argument;
jesus was confused or luke and john were...

 

[waitasec]

Four gospels or one gospel with four writers?
The gospel according to Matthew
The gospel according to Mark
The gospel according to Luke
The gospel according to John
Not four separate gospels but one gospel written by four.
I suppose it could be correct grammar to make gospel plural.
My dictionary also only uses the word gospel as singular.

4 gospels written for 4 different audiences.
not intended for the audience of today...thats for sure.
see what happens when it is assumed it's for today...?
you get many many interpretations
all while the holy spirit is MIA for this very important part of the process of conveying .... what, i don't know

 

[sincerly]

iow, you understand how flawed your argument is...
all this time you finally decide it's off topic... a lame bow out i must say.

To the contrary, I'm still here and discussing Adam and Eve(death) is off-topic for this topic.

And really, neither are you confused, because you have stated that you have chosen to view the Bible as myths, and Jesus???---just another human being?

i fail to see how this has anything to do with the argument;
jesus was confused or luke and john were...

Are you denying that your false claims aren't rooted in your agenda to negate the Truthfulness of the Bible and The Creator GOD of all things HE Made??

It is your "thinking" which is "confused" and which has been shown to be distorted by that "thinking" into false claims.

 

[waitasec]

To the contrary, I'm still here and discussing Adam and Eve(death) is off-topic for this topic.

sure whatever you say...i believe you :no:

Are you denying that your false claims aren't rooted in your agenda to negate the Truthfulness of the Bible and The Creator GOD of all things HE Made??

It is your "thinking" which is "confused" and which has been shown to be distorted by that "thinking" into false claims.

1st off, my claims are not false. they are supported by the inconsistent and irreconcilable gospel narratives.
2ndly, my agenda is to point out the irreconcilable and inconsistent gospel narratives
3rdly i don't understand how someone who questions is confused as what they are questioning is confusing in the first place

 

[sincerly]

sure whatever you say...i believe you :no:

That's the same contradictory attitude which produced the false claims in the first, second, and third place.

1st off, my claims are not false. they are supported by the inconsistent and irreconcilable gospel narratives.
2ndly, my agenda is to point out the irreconcilable and inconsistent gospel narratives
3rdly i don't understand how someone who questions is confused as what they are questioning is confusing in the first place

How about considering your first two words of the topic---"I Think". It was that action which concocted the false claims you presented.
The Gospel narratives are accurate and together produce a more detailed picture of what occurred.

 

[waitasec]

That's the same contradictory attitude which produced the false claims in the first, second, and third place.

do even know what contradictory means?

How about considering your first two words of the topic---"I Think". .

obviously you haven't considered the verb "think"
i get it. it's hard for some.

 

[sincerly]

do even know what contradictory means?

Yes, And your:""""sure whatever you say...i believe you :no:"""" is an excellent example.

obviously you haven't considered the verb "think"
i get it. it's hard for some.

From all of your posts, it is obviously hard for some to "get" that your conclusions to your "I think" is false.
And you fault Peter for acting in/on his belief that the Messiah/Jesus was here to free the Nation of Israel from the Roman Empire.

 

[waitasec]

Yes, And your:""""sure whatever you say...i believe you :no:"""" is an excellent example.

what does contradiction mean do you suppose?

From all of your posts, it is obviously hard for some to "get" that your conclusions to your "I think" is false.
And you fault Peter for acting in/on his belief that the Messiah/Jesus was here to free the Nation of Israel from the Roman Empire.

it obvious you like being told what you mama told you to believe....

 

[sincerly]

what does contradiction mean do you suppose?

Originally Posted by sincerly
Yes, And your:""""sure whatever you say...i believe you :no:"""" is an excellent example.

You obviously don't know what it means since I showed you an excellent example made by you. Also, your posts are contradictions of the context of the scriptures.

it obvious you like being told what you mama told you to believe....

Wrong again, in your "thinking conclusions". I respected my parents. They never "told what to believe".

 

[waitasec]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Yes, And your:""""sure whatever you say...i believe you :no:"""" is an excellent example.

You obviously don't know what it means since I showed you an excellent example made by you. Also, your posts are contradictions of the context of the scriptures.

your excellent example?

get over yourself...plaaaeeeeezzzzzzz

Wrong again, in your "thinking conclusions". I respected my parents. They never "told what to believe".

yet you were raised in a christian home...right?