i think jesus was confused...or maybe luke and john were

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Waitasec, The Four Gospels are/have been the recordings by four writers and concerning the Life/activities and teachings of Jesus Christ and why HE came to earth. They each wrote the accounts of eyewitnesses( Two personal and two as obtained from others who were eyewitnesses.) They each expressed the details as they were impressed to record the various aspects of/for the 3 1/2 years of The Ministry Of Jesus and some from the birth of Jesus. Therefore, while they are focused on/with the same "Principles and events" during the Life of Jesus, they can't be expected to use the same words or give the same details exactly alike. That wasn't their goal. Just as Luke stated in (1:1-3). "what we most suredly believe".

your ducking technique is getting old....

That "ducking technique" is the giving of the facts of the scriptures which are refused by your only choosing to twist the scriptures into false ideas. (As these many posts attest.)

each author wrote for a different audience...
i still don't see how this has to do with the disciples not knowing why jesus was turing himself in...

Waitasec, NOT any of those four Gospels are addressed to a "different audience". As I have shown you previously, Luke 1:1-3, "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us", That "US" is any and all Believers in Jesus Christ and the Salvation the Sacrifice HE did by the Actions HE "fulfilled" in these verses we are discussing.
For 3 1/2 years, Jesus taught those disciples concerning the right relationship toward GOD and their fellow Beings. And the acheiving of that goal. Whatever they didn't understand before the Resurrection was put in a right prespective as shown by Luke on that Resurrection day. Luke24:27, 44-48, "And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.....And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things."

why did the disciples ask to draw their swords?
edit:
you are saying if jesus' kingdom were of this world angels would come and fight for it?

so who would fight if his kingdom were not of this world...his disciples?

Waitasec, none of the Gospels(nor scriptures to my knowledge) address the "Why" specifically. That was a question of your "asking and surmisings to answer"(which do not equal to facts).
As stated, the question by the Disciples in Acts1:6, appears to supply the answer; otherwise, I suggest you ask Peter on the Day when the Redeemed will be Resurrected.

Who are the "servants" associated with a kingdomnot of this world? Who are the inhabitants who will make up HIS Kingdom on the new earth??

 

[waitasec]

That "ducking technique" is the giving of the facts of the scriptures which are refused by your only choosing to twist the scriptures into false ideas. (As these many posts attest.)

your opinion is moot...and it has nothing to do with the contradicting narratives in relation to jesus being arrested

Waitasec, NOT any of those four Gospels are addressed to a "different audience". As I have shown you previously, Luke 1:1-3, "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us", That "US" is any and all Believers in Jesus Christ and the Salvation the Sacrifice HE did by the Actions HE "fulfilled" in these verses we are discussing.
For 3 1/2 years, Jesus taught those disciples concerning the right relationship toward GOD and their fellow Beings. And the acheiving of that goal. Whatever they didn't understand before the Resurrection was put in a right prespective as shown by Luke on that Resurrection day. Luke24:27, 44-48, "And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.....And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things."

this has nothing to do with the contradicting narratives concerning jesus being arrested.

Waitasec, none of the Gospels(nor scriptures to my knowledge) address the "Why" specifically. That was a question of your "asking and surmisings to answer"(which do not equal to facts).
As stated, the question by the Disciples in Acts1:6, appears to supply the answer; otherwise, I suggest you ask Peter on the Day when the Redeemed will be Resurrected.

the most honest response so far...
acts 6 is after the they attempted to prevent jesus from being arrested...
in the gospels we have this:

jesus knew he was being sought out by th jewish authorities and we don't know why the disciples where hanging out with jesus or why he was asking them to stay awake...from their POV other than to “Stay here and keep watch.” watch for what?
a)as a look out in the attempt to prevent his arrest or
b) to meet the betrayer

a) as a look out, that would imply they knew jesus being sought out by jewish authorities to arrest him and would explain why they asked if they should draw their swords in an attempt to prevent his arrest.
b) if they knew they were going to hand jesus over to the betrayer then asking if they should draw their swords doesn't add up.

Who are the "servants" associated with a kingdomnot of this world? Who are the inhabitants who will make up HIS Kingdom on the new earth??

did the disciples attempt to prevent his arrest?

 

[sincerly]

your opinion is moot...and it has nothing to do with the contradicting narratives in relation to jesus being arrested


this has nothing to do with the contradicting narratives concerning jesus being arrested.

Both have to do withThe truths of the Gospels----which include the arrest scene. The "what we most suredly believe." and there were no "contradictions" therein.

so then why did he ask his servants to get swords and why did his servants fight if his kingdom was not of this world?]

Luke22:35, Jesus said, "When I sent you "without"---lacked you anything?" vs.36,"now I say buy a sword." That was just hours before the arrest. Had the disciples been "sent anywhere"?? :no: Nor was there any place to buy such. They did find two swords, but what was their purpose? Jesus had just eaten the passover meal meal with them and stated that those emblems of Bread and wine referred to HIS Sacrifice shed for "you". They had been told two days before that HE would be "Betrayed and Crucified".vs.37, "For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end."
Luke isn't producing any contradictions. Jesus was not contradicting the scriptures HE came to Fulfill. Jesus explained that HIS Kingdom vss.29-30 would be include those HE would give the Disciples----still future.
Only one of the disciples drew the sword and smote/cut off the ear of one of the mob who came to arrest Jesus. Jesus never resisted nor gave permission for any of the Disciples to Resist and HE went meekly with them.

You are insisting that Jesus had a Kingdom in this world---contradicting Jesus."My kingdom is not of this world".

Why----Why---if his kingdom was not of this world?

the most honest response so far...
acts 6 is after the they attempted to prevent jesus from being arrested...
in the gospels we have this:

jesus knew he was being sought out by th jewish authorities and we don't know why the disciples where hanging out with jesus or why he was asking them to stay awake..

Waitasec, in conjunction to Acts1:6 there is John6:14-15, "Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, "This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone. "
Also, Mark15:7, "And there was [one] named Barabbas, [which lay] bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection. " That "insurrection" was to overthrow the Roman dominion of the Nation of Israel. Again, very much on the minds of the Jewish people. And a factor of the Disciples question. and more likely the answer to the "Why" of Peter's actions than the bundle of assumptions concocted by you.

from their POV other than to “Stay here and keep watch.” watch for what?
a)as a look out in the attempt to prevent his arrest or
b) to meet the betrayer

a) as a look out, that would imply they knew jesus being sought out by jewish authorities to arrest him and would explain why they asked if they should draw their swords in an attempt to prevent his arrest.
b) if they knew they were going to hand jesus over to the betrayer then asking if they should draw their swords doesn't add up.

You left out (c)Mark14:38, "Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly [is] ready, but the flesh [is] weak. " Jesus had warned Peter that before the night was over he would deny Jesus three times.
Those others(by you) are false assumptions.---to bolster your false claims.

did the disciples attempt to prevent his arrest?

Jesus didn't command Peter's actions---Peter acted on his own and was reprimanded. Which leaves your claims baseless.

 

[waitasec]

Both have to do withThe truths of the Gospels----which include the arrest scene. The "what we most suredly believe." and there were no "contradictions" therein.

Luke22:35, Jesus said, "When I sent you "without"---lacked you anything?" vs.36,"now I say buy a sword." That was just hours before the arrest. Had the disciples been "sent anywhere"?? :no: Nor was there any place to buy such. They did find two swords, but what was their purpose? Jesus had just eaten the passover meal meal with them and stated that those emblems of Bread and wine referred to HIS Sacrifice shed for "you". They had been told two days before that HE would be "Betrayed and Crucified".vs.37, "For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end."
Luke isn't producing any contradictions. Jesus was not contradicting the scriptures HE came to Fulfill. Jesus explained that HIS Kingdom vss.29-30 would be include those HE would give the Disciples----still future.
Only one of the disciples drew the sword and smote/cut off the ear of one of the mob who came to arrest Jesus. Jesus never resisted nor gave permission for any of the Disciples to Resist and HE went meekly with them.

You are insisting that Jesus had a Kingdom in this world---contradicting Jesus."My kingdom is not of this world".




Waitasec, in conjunction to Acts1:6 there is John6:14-15, "Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, "This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone. "
Also, Mark15:7, "And there was [one] named Barabbas, [which lay] bound with them that had made insurrection with him, who had committed murder in the insurrection. " That "insurrection" was to overthrow the Roman dominion of the Nation of Israel. Again, very much on the minds of the Jewish people. And a factor of the Disciples question. and more likely the answer to the "Why" of Peter's actions than the bundle of assumptions concocted by you.

this has nothing to do with the contradicting narratives in relation to jesus being arrested
:sorry1:

You left out (c)Mark14:38, "Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly [is] ready, but the flesh [is] weak.

you conveniently left out:
37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Couldn’t you keep watch for one hour?
FAIL....


the contrast between john and the other gospels are undeniable
john's account contradicts jesus being interrupted in the other 3 gospels.

mark
43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared.

matthew
47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived.

luke
47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them.

and now john
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”

Those others(by you) are false assumptions.---to bolster your false claims.

your insistence to ignore the options are noted.

Jesus didn't command Peter's actions---Peter acted on his own and was reprimanded. Which leaves your claims baseless.

jesus didn't claim that jesus would command the prevention of his arrest
silly.
excellent work..bravo!!!

your contribution to this debate has far exceeded anyone i have ever encountered here on the RF :bow: :clap

:sarcastic

 

[sincerly]

this has nothing to do with the contradicting narratives in relation to jesus being arrested
:sorry1:[/quote]

All the Gospels clearly show that Jesus was arrested. The only contradictions are those claims by You in manipulating the Scriptures by the casting of doubt on the events and the true messages of what is being said/done. Well!! You did say that Bart D. Ehrman was a factor. :sorry1:, but you have been duped. However, believe as you choose.

you conveniently left out:
37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Couldn’t you keep watch for one hour?
FAIL....

You mean "FAIL" because I showed that the watching was in relation to "lest ye enter into temptation" rather than you false assumption/claim that the "watching was to avoid arrest/help Jesus flee."

the contrast between john and the other gospels are undeniable
john's account contradicts jesus being interrupted in the other 3 gospels.

mark
43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared.(NIV)
(KJV)"And immediately, while he yet spake, cometh Judas, one of the twelve, and with him a great multitude with swords and staves, from the chief priests and the scribes and the elders. "

matthew
47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived.

luke
47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them.

and now john
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out(stepped out; went forth) and asked them, “Who is it you want?”

Let's look at that speaking"
(Matt.26:46), "Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me."
(Mark14:42), "Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand."
(Luke22:46), "And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation."
(John18:1,3), "When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples........ Judas then, having received a band [of men] and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons."

There were no "interruptions of speaking". Jesus knew the betrayer was coming and while They were coming "thither" Jesus was awakening the disciples as HE "went forth" to meet them.
John didn't address the praying in the garden issue; Jesus had prayed to the Father and spoke to the Disciples after the supper and before they went into the garden and John writes then of Judas and the Mob.

Nothing Ehrman has assummed/twisted/claimed is valid. The Scriptures and Bible are to be trusted over the speculation of man.

your insistence to ignore the options are noted.

Man made options are to be ignored.

jesus didn't claim that jesus would command the prevention of his arrest
silly.
excellent work..bravo!!!

???????? I miss your point....Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of HIS "arrest"and the resultant Crucifixion and Resurrection.

your contribution to this debate has far exceeded anyone i have ever encountered here on the RF :bow: :clap :sarcastic

I doubt that "This debate" is over or that our scriptural differences/encounters are at an end. Those three smiles are proof thereof.
My "contributions" will continue.

 

[waitasec]

All the Gospels clearly show that Jesus was arrested.

what are you talking about? i never claimed jesus wasn't arrested...
i said:

this has nothing to do with the contradicting narratives in relation to jesus being arrested

what you failed to focus on in that statement is:
the contradicting narratives

You mean "FAIL" because I showed that the watching was in relation to "lest ye enter into temptation" rather than you false assumption/claim that the "watching was to avoid arrest/help Jesus flee."

wow...

37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Couldn’t you keep watch for one hour? 38, "Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly [is] ready, but the flesh [is] weak.

jesus asked them to stay awake by praying to keep them from the temptation of falling asleep so they could keep watch...as “The spirit truly [is] ready, but the flesh [is] weak.”

Let's look at that speaking"

you changed my argument, those were not the passages i presented
here...deal with these instead...if you can.

mark
43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared.

matthew
47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived.

luke
47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them.

(John18:1,3), "When Jesus had spoken these words, he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples........ Judas then, having received a band [of men] and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons."

There were no "interruptions of speaking". Jesus knew the betrayer was coming and while They were coming "thither" Jesus was awakening the disciples as HE "went forth" to meet them.

here is the entire passage in john 18

1When Jesus had spoken these words, (his prayer) he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples. (where they were tempted to fall asleep and asked to keep watch in the synoptic gospels)

2And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples.

3Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.

lets insert any one of the 3 gospels here..mark 14:37...matthew 26:47 or luke 22:47
lets use luke
47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him
john 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?

so who approached who?


if you put all 4 gospels together, you got jesus SPEAKING to his disciples and asking them to pray and keep watch as he was being betrayed with a kiss and then walking up to the betrayer at the same time asking ‘who is it you want’...this is irreconcilable...

matthew 26:36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

45 Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour has come, and the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”

mark 14:32 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”
35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba,[f] Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Couldn’t you keep watch for one hour? 38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

39 Once more he went away and prayed the same thing. 40 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. They did not know what to say to him.

41 Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”

luke 22: 39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[c]
45 When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. 46 “Why are you sleeping?” he asked them. “Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.”
47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
49 When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?”

john 18
1 When he had finished praying, Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it.
2 Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples. 3 So Judas came to the garden, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and the Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.

4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”

i notice a trend with you...
you only put one slither of the passage which you twist around to fit your argument...
i have presented the entire scene 4 times and it clearly shows there are irreconcilable differences.

John didn't address the praying in the garden issue; Jesus had prayed to the Father and spoke to the Disciples after the supper and before they went into the garden and John writes then of Judas and the Mob.

right, it’s a contradicting narrative in relation to jesus being arrested in the synoptic gospels narrative.

Nothing Ehrman has assummed/twisted/claimed is valid. The Scriptures and Bible are to be trusted over the speculation of man.

Man made options are to be ignored.

:biglaugh:
what a piece of work.
peculation of man...
are you kidding me? :foot:

???????? I miss your point....

yes you have.

Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of HIS "arrest"and the resultant Crucifixion and Resurrection.

wow just wow
you're making things up...i'm not arguing about the crucifixion and resurrection....
i am only pointing out the irrconcileable differences of the synoptic gospels account compared to johns gospel

i responded to what you said...

Jesus didn't command Peter's actions---Peter acted on his own and was reprimanded. Which leaves your claims baseless.

to which i responded with

jesus didn't claim that jesus would command the prevention of his arrest

i never claimed that jesus commanded peter's actions
you are making up your own argument AGAIN so you resort to moving goal posts...

I doubt that "This debate" is over or that our scriptural differences/encounters are at an end. Those three smiles are proof thereof.
My "contributions" will continue.

your contributions are quite entertaining, by all means please continue...

 

[sincerly]

what are you talking about? i never claimed jesus wasn't arrested...
i said:

what you failed to focus on in that statement is:
the contradicting narratives

Waitasec, were not your claims that Jesus himself had asked the Apostles to "watch" so that he could flee the arrest?? That HIS statement of "let's be going" was an admission of "fleeing from His arresters/betrayer??
Those "claims"( and others) of yours were shown to be false claims and therefore, not a part of the contextual narrative.

wow...
37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Couldn’t you keep watch for one hour? 38, "Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly [is] ready, but the flesh [is] weak".

jesus asked them to stay awake by praying to keep them from the temptation of falling asleep so they could keep watch...as “The spirit truly [is] ready, but the flesh [is] weak.”

Waitasec, they were(Peter--had not Peter been warned that he would deny Jesus three times before the night was over??) to pray to watch "last ye enter into temptation". NOT as you supplied----watch for betrayers so I can Flee.

you changed my argument, those were not the passages i presented
here...deal with these instead...if you can.

Right, the incontext passages did show your false supposed meaning for those verses to be erroneous. I changed nothing; however, incontextually, the verses showed the truthfullness of the Scriptural messages.

here is the entire passage in john 18

1When Jesus had spoken these words, (his prayer) he went forth with his disciples over the brook Cedron, where was a garden, into the which he entered, and his disciples. (where they were tempted to fall asleep and asked to keep watch in the synoptic gospels)

"His prayer" was finished before Jesus and HIS Apostles entered(went forth) the garden It was the other writers who described the action of the Apostles in the garden (NOT John).
It is your wanting to "insert the writings of one of the others" "at this point" which makes that claim of yours false---"contradictory narratives".

luke

47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him
john 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?

so who approached who?

if you put all 4 gospels together, you got jesus SPEAKING to his disciples and asking them to pray and keep watch as he was being betrayed with a kiss and then walking up to the betrayer at the same time asking ‘who is it you want’...this is irreconcilable...

There is no conflict. You left out part of John's account of the meeting.John18:3 explains, "Judas then, having received a band [of men] and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons." and vs.4. Jesus and the Apostles, "went forth" . The groups approached each other---on meeting, Judas is stated to have approached Jesus to Kiss HIM as was pre-arranged to indicate who the mob was to arrest. No Contradiction or "confusion".

i notice a trend with you...
you only put one slither of the passage which you twist around to fit your argument...
i have presented the entire scene 4 times and it clearly shows there are irreconcilable differences.

You claim that I only "put one slither(sliver?) of the passage which you twist to fit your argument and i have presented the entire scene 4 times and it clearly shows there are irreconcilable differences"
First of all, 'that slither(sliver) of a passage" is all that is needed to prove your "claims" (the irreconcilable differences) as being contradictory to the Context.
Second, no matter how much of the truth is added---just a "slither"(sliver) of a false claim renders the whole false.

right, it’s a contradicting narrative in relation to jesus being arrested in the synoptic gospels narrative.

To the contrary, What it does is not have any supporting material for the twisting which was done in the other Gospels which included the sleeping scene. The twisting done in the other Gospels were shown to be erroneous. Therefore, your(Ehrman's) claims "FAIL".

:biglaugh:
what a piece of work.
peculation of man...
are you kidding me? :foot:

Yes, the Bible with its truth is a marvelous "piece of work" and all geared toward the Salvation of Sin Guilty Mankind.
The "speculation of man" in opposition to GOD'S Plan is doomed to failure.
No, I'm not kidding. You can chew on your foot all you like, but the truth found in the Bible does cure "foot in mouth disease".

 

[waitasec]

Waitasec, were not your claims that Jesus himself had asked the Apostles to "watch" so that he could flee the arrest?? That HIS statement of "let's be going" was an admission of "fleeing from His arresters/betrayer??
Those "claims"( and others) of yours were shown to be false claims and therefore, not a part of the contextual narrative.

holy guacamole batman...
the "lets be going" is not about jesus being arrested or not, it's about the narrative being irreconcileable between the synoptic gospels and the gospel of john...john paints a completely different picture than the other 3.

Waitasec, they were(Peter--had not Peter been warned that he would deny Jesus three times before the night was over??) to pray to watch "last ye enter into temptation". NOT as you supplied----watch for betrayers so I can Flee.

but see, jesus wasn't just taliking to peter...he was asking 3 of them to not fall into the temptation of sleep, but to keep watch...it's there...and there is no mention of the denial...only keep watch and pray lest you fall into temptation...why did he want them to stay awake...peter can't deny jesus if he's sleeping...

mark 14:33 He took Peter, James and John along with him,

matthew 26
43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

45 Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour has come, and the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”

he doesn't single peter out, dear....:no:

Right, the incontext passages did show your false supposed meaning for those verses to be erroneous. I changed nothing; however, incontextually, the verses showed the truthfullness of the Scriptural messages.

no it didn't. deal with the passages i provided.

"His prayer" was finished before Jesus and HIS Apostles entered(went forth) the garden It was the other writers who described the action of the Apostles in the garden (NOT John).

and?

It is your wanting to "insert the writings of one of the others" "at this point" which makes that claim of yours false---"contradictory narratives".

well who approached who?
was jesus approached by judas or was judas approached by jesus?

There is no conflict. You left out part of John's account of the meeting.John18:3 explains, "Judas then, having received a band [of men] and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons." and vs.4. Jesus and the Apostles, "went forth" . The groups approached each other---on meeting, Judas is stated to have approached Jesus to Kiss HIM as was pre-arranged to indicate who the mob was to arrest. No Contradiction or "confusion".

but you are leaving out what the other gospels are saying...
jesus was asking the disciples to stay awake...his attention was on his disciples
47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
however in john jesus approaches judas and co
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”

5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.

“I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

7 Again he asked them, “Who is it you want?”

“Jesus of Nazareth,” they said.

8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. If you are looking for me,

You claim that I only "put one slither(sliver?) of the passage which you twist to fit your argument and i have presented the entire scene 4 times and it clearly shows there are irreconcilable differences"
First of all, 'that slither(sliver) of a passage" is all that is needed to prove your "claims" (the irreconcilable differences) as being contradictory to the Context.
Second, no matter how much of the truth is added---just a "slither"(sliver) of a false claim renders the whole false.

well your slither of an argument is so snake like and slimy you're gonna have to clean off the gloop in order for me to be able to see what it is.

To the contrary, What it does is not have any supporting material for the twisting which was done in the other Gospels which included the sleeping scene. The twisting done in the other Gospels were shown to be erroneous. Therefore, your(Ehrman's) claims "FAIL".

"what are words for...when no one listens there's no use talking at all"
this post shows the irreconcilable differences between the synoptic gospels and the gospel of john

Yes, the Bible with its truth is a marvelous "piece of work" and all geared toward the Salvation of Sin Guilty Mankind.
The "speculation of man" in opposition to GOD'S Plan is doomed to failure.
No, I'm not kidding. You can chew on your foot all you like, but the truth found in the Bible does cure "foot in mouth disease".

well who approached who?
was jesus approached by judas or was judas approached by jesus?

There is no conflict. You left out part of John's account of the meeting.John18:3 explains, "Judas then, having received a band [of men] and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons." and vs.4. Jesus and the Apostles, "went forth" . The groups approached each other---on meeting, Judas is stated to have approached Jesus to Kiss HIM as was pre-arranged to indicate who the mob was to arrest. No Contradiction or "confusion".

but you are leaving out what the other gospels are saying...
jesus was asking the disciples to stay awake...his attention was on his disciples...he wasn't approaching judas
"while he was still speaking" to the disciples.
47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
however in john jesus doesn't get kissed and jesus approaches them.
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”

5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.

“I am he,” Jesus said.


was jesus singled out with a kiss in john :no:
:sorry1: your absolutely wrong.

 

[sincerly]

holy guacamole batman...
the "lets be going" is not about jesus being arrested or not, it's about the narrative being irreconcileable between the synoptic gospels and the gospel of john...john paints a completely different picture than the other 3.

but see, jesus wasn't just taliking to peter...he was asking 3 of them to not fall into the temptation of sleep, but to keep watch...it's there...and there is no mention of the denial...only keep watch and pray lest you fall into temptation...why did he want them to stay awake...peter can't deny jesus if he's sleeping... [/quote

Mark14:37 and Matt.26:40, again, point out your "slithering" ways with the truth of the scriptures. "And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour[color]"?
Peter was the only one who had been told of his immediate danger of "Denial"---A temptation by Satan----Which occurred as schedualed.
John didn't write about Peter's humiliating activity in the garden, but that doesn't make John and the other Gospels as "being irreconcileable". Nor does your false claims that the Scriptures support your and Ehrman's assumptions that Jesus is Confused. Each of the Gospels from the initial chapter to the end gives the same message ----Jesus' life was focused 0n the salvation plan which was prophesied/instituted from before the foundation of the world and the fall of mankind at Eden.

Your repeated twisting of the Scriptures can not change that fact nor the prophesied End of evil.

he doesn't single peter out, dear....:no:

Of course, you refuse to acknowledge the truth of Matthew and Mark(above).

no it didn't. deal with the passages i provided.

I did by showing in context that the "the passages you provided" didn't "suggest" as you claimed.

and?

Agreed, you tried and failed to prove anything but false accusations/insinuations. Such as:

well who approached who?
was jesus approached by judas or was judas approached by jesus?

Judas and the band of men he brought with him, "came thither" and Jesus and those with HIM "went forth" to meet them. In The account of their meeting, it was necessary for Judas to "approach" and "Kiss" Jesus in order for that "band" to know(the signal/sign) who it was they were to take back to those religious leaders who had sent them with Judas.:yes:

but you are leaving out what the other gospels are saying...

To the contrary, what I am showing is that the incontext Scriptures ARE NOT SAYING WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING THEM TO BE SAYING.

jesus was asking the disciples to stay awake...his attention was on his disciples

47 'While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”

To the contrary, HE was Praying to the Father concerning the ordeal HE was soon to endure. But that doesn't mean that HE/Jesus wasn't concerned with the sleeping instead of being alert to the "Temptation"/trial and Peter's "denial".
Jesus already knew that Judas would betray HIM that very night(What you do --do quickly.) Again, no confusion on the part of Jesus. As Jesus stated, "The hour is come". Jesus was resigned to the finishing of the work the Father had given HIM to DO. And On the Cross said, "IT IS FINISHED!"

however in john jesus approaches judas and co
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?” 5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6 When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground. 7 Again he asked them, “Who is it you want?” “Jesus of Nazareth,” they said. 8 Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he. If you are looking for me,

In context, the groups met, Judas "approached Jesus and with the "sign of the Kiss"--- kissed Jesus. and Jesus asked of the group, "Whom seek ye". They take Jesus and the Disciples "scatter" as prophesied.

well your slither of an argument is so snake like and slimy you're gonna have to clean off the gloop in order for me to be able to see what it is.

When you remove all the false claims made by you associated with this thread, you will easily see the truth of the events.

"what are words for...when no one listens there's no use talking at all"
this post shows the irreconcilable differences between the synoptic gospels and the gospel of john

Your post only shows the "confusion" of the events as contrived by you and Ehrman.

was jesus singled out with a kiss in john :no:
:sorry1: your absolutely wrong.

Did you acknowledge how delicious "See's candies" are in this post???:no:

 

[waitasec]

part 1


jesus wasn't just talking to peter...he was asking 3 of them to not fall into the temptation of sleep in gethsemane/mt of olives

Mark14:37 and Matt.26:40, again, point out your "slithering" ways with the truth of the scriptures. "And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour[color]"?
Peter was the only one who had been told of his immediate danger of "Denial"---A temptation by Satan----Which occurred as schedualed.
John didn't write about Peter's humiliating activity in the garden, but that doesn't make John and the other Gospels as "being irreconcileable". Nor does your false claims that the Scriptures support your and Ehrman's assumptions that Jesus is Confused. Each of the Gospels from the initial chapter to the end gives the same message ----Jesus' life was focused 0n the salvation plan which was prophesied/instituted from before the foundation of the world and the fall of mankind at Eden.

Of course, you refuse to acknowledge the truth of Matthew and Mark(above).

here we have jesus talking to 3

mark 14:32 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”
35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba,[f] Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Couldn’t you keep watch for one hour? 38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

39 Once more he went away and prayed the same thing. 40 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. They did not know what to say to him.

41 Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”
43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared. With him was a crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests, the teachers of the law, and the elders.
44 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him and lead him away under guard.” 45 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Rabbi!” and kissed him. 46 The men seized Jesus and arrested him.


1. what is the focus of this scene in gethsemane, peter's denial or that the disciples were falling asleep?
2. how can they deny jesus if they are asleep?
3. where was jesus and co when judas arrived?
4. was jesus speaking to the disciples when judas arrived?


here:
matthew 26:36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”

43 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44 So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

45 Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour has come, and the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 46 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”
47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.


1. what is the focus of this scene in gethsemane, peter's denial or that the disciples were falling asleep?
2. how can they deny jesus if they are asleep?
3. where was jesus and co when judas arrived?
4. was jesus speaking to the disciples when judas arrived?


here:
luke 22: 39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.[c]
45 When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. 46 “Why are you sleeping?” he asked them. “Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.”
47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”


1. what is the focus of this scene on the mt of olives, peter's denial or that the disciples were falling asleep?
2. how can they deny jesus if they are asleep?
3. where was jesus and co when judas arrived?
4. was jesus speaking to the disciples when judas arrived?



however in john, not a word about the sleepy disciples


john 18:1 When he had finished praying, Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it. 2 Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples. 3 So Judas came to the garden, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and the Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.

but wait a second...
1. where are the sleepy disciples? that entire scene is not mentioned in john...
2. where was jesus when he was praying? there is no mention of jesus going back and forth in gethsemane/mt of olives in chapter john 17 asking the disciples to stay awake either.
3. in mark matthew and luke jesus is praying in gethsemane/mt of olives and that is where jesus greets judas with open arms (according to you that is)
but here in john we have another contradiction jesus prayed in gethsemane/mt of olives but then they go to a garden where they welcome judas the betrayer and his company with open arms (according to you).
but yet they asked to draw their swords for some strange reason :sarcastic

4. was jesus praying in gethsemane/mt of olives or did they move to another location, where they were happily reunited with the betrayer in the garden as jesus was still talking to his disciples about not sleeping in gethsemane/mt of olives?

john 18:1 When he had finished praying, Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it. 2 Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples. 3 So Judas came to the garden, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and the Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons. 4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”

5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.

“I am he,” Jesus said.

5. where is the kiss in john?
6. what is the focus of this scene in the garden, peter's denial or that the disciples were falling asleep?
7. how can they deny jesus if they are asleep?
8. where was jesus and co when judas arrived?
9. was jesus speaking to the disciples when judas arrived?

answer each question according to the respective gospel
and you will see the irreconcilable differences just keep adding up...

 

[Rhadamanthus]

For they are "4" different Gospels, they are "4" completion different "Jesus"
each Four being Played Individually by "Mark-Matthew-Luke-John", that contains a slight different Thesis.

Mark (Original, Greek Style Jewish Hero)
Matthew (emphasis on Anti-Jewish Agenda, OT Plaigerism/Josephus)
John (written as Against Marcion)
Luke-Acts (fattened up with OT Plaigerism/Josephus/Homer)

It is impossible for Mark-Matthew-John-Luke/Acts to be all right at same
time, so you must pick the 1 out of 4

 

[waitasec]

part 2

I did by showing in context that the "the passages you provided" didn't "suggest" as you claimed.

no you didn't.
here is the context:
mark
14:43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared. 44 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him and lead him away under guard.” 45 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Rabbi!” and kissed him. 46 The men seized Jesus and arrested him.

matthew
26:47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.


luke 22:47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them.

this was happening in gethsemane/mt of olives while jesus was praying and asking the sleepy disciples to stay awake

however in john it says this
18:1 When he had finished praying (what was accounted in mark 14:32-46, matthew 26:36-49 and luke 22:39-48) Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it. 2 Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples. 3 So Judas came to the garden, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and the Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.

according to mark, matthew and luke, jesus was still speaking to his sleepy disciples in gethsemane/mt of olives
however john takes jesus out of gethsemane/mt of olives by relocating them to another place other than the place he was praying. john 18:1 contradicts mark 14:32-46, matthew 26:36-49 and luke 22:39-48

this is irreconcilable

Your repeated twisting of the Scriptures can not change that fact nor the prophesied End of evil.

this has nothing to do with the contradicting narratives between the synoptic gospels and the gospel of john

Agreed, you tried and failed to prove anything but false accusations/insinuations. Such as:

so you won’t answer the question…
who approached who?
was jesus approached by judas or was judas approached by jesus?

mark 14:43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared. With him was a crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests, the teachers of the law, and the elders.
44 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him and lead him away under guard.” 45 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Rabbi!” and kissed him. 46 The men seized Jesus and arrested him.
Matthew26:47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.

Luke 22:47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48 but Jesus asked him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”

John 18:2 Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples. 3 So Judas came to the garden, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and the Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.
4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”
5 “Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied.
“I am he,” Jesus said.

so why did jesus say, "i am he" in john, when in mark, matthew and luke have judas point out jesus by kissing him?
we don't see jesus asking "who do you want?" in mark, matthew and luke. we see jesus asking the disciples to stay awake and being interrupted when judas appears in mark, matthew and luke...not in john.

To the contrary, what I am showing is that the incontext Scriptures ARE NOT SAYING WHAT YOU ARE CLAIMING THEM TO BE SAYING.

i laid them out for you from beginning to end comparing the synoptic gospels and the gospel of john :sorry1: i did.

it's up to you to answer the questions i posited...
but i have a feeling you're just going to :ignore: them

 

[sincerly]

part 2

no you didn't.
here is the context:
mark
14:43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared. 44 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him and lead him away under guard.” 45 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Rabbi!” and kissed him. 46 The men seized Jesus and arrested him.

matthew
26:47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve,:sleep:clubs, sent from the chief priests and the elders of the people. 48 Now the betrayer had arranged a signal with them: “The one I kiss is the man; arrest him.” 49 Going at once to Jesus, Judas said, “Greetings, Rabbi!” and kissed him.


luke 22:47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them.

this was happening in gethsemane/mt of olives while jesus was praying and asking the sleepy disciples to stay awake

however in john it says this
18:1 When he had finished praying (what was accounted in mark 14:32-46, matthew 26:36-49 and luke 22:39-48) Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it. 2 Now Judas, who betrayed him, knew the place, because Jesus had often met there with his disciples. 3 So Judas came to the garden, guiding a detachment of soldiers and some officials from the chief priests and the Pharisees. They were carrying torches, lanterns and weapons.

according to mark, matthew and luke, jesus was still speaking to his sleepy disciples in gethsemane/mt of olives
however john takes jesus out of gethsemane/mt of olives by relocating them to another place other than the place he was praying. john 18:1 contradicts mark 14:32-46, matthew 26:36-49 and luke 22:39-48

this is irreconcilable

What is "irreconcilable" is your comments and the "context of the scriptural verses" in part one and two.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke do record some happenings in "gethsemane/mt of olives" that John didn't address in his Gospel. But that isn't a contradiction or "irreconcilable difference---Only an choice of what to write(as he wrote in 21:25).
You posted John18:1, but added your own erroneous conclusion that the Prayer Jesus finished was the same as Jesus was praying in the Garden. Did You not read """Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it."""

The Prayer John wrote was "finished" was still at the place where they had eaten the Passover and from where Judas left to obtain that mob. THEN, HE left with the disciples and crossed over into the Garden. Matthew(26:37) and John and James were the three who "went yonder with HIM to pray".
John then describes the meeting of the groups Judas and those who he brought to arrest Jesus "came to the garden"/"thither" and (John 18:4), Jesus and those disciples He had awakened "went forth" because "the hour had come" for HIM to be betrayed.
Jesus had specifically told Peter that Peter would deny Jesus three times before the night was over. During the Praying in the Garden they were asked to Pray as well that "they enter not into temptation".
The Disciples knew of the impending Arrest and Crucifixion because Jesus had told them as late as two days previously.(even at the Passover supper).
Upon the groups meeting, We see the first "temptation"in the asking, "shall we draw the sword??" We see Peter failing the "temptation"---by actually drawing the sword and cutting off the ear. Later, Peter would also deny Christ three times as predicted. There are no contradictions.
BTW, Luke(1:1-3) nor anyone else ever commanded/asserted that the "declarations of beliefs" had to be word/event/parable/etc. just like the other writers expressed these things in their "Gospels".
Luke mentioned an angel attending/strengthening Jesus in the Garden---but this isn't recorded by the others. That doesn't mean it isn't true/fact.

Waitasec, that "kiss" only was a sign of who they were to arrest. But like Peter and impulsively, Jesus wanted to know from that Mob who THEY intended to TAKE. "I have lost none". Those Angels may have been called for had the Mob stated "ALL of you". But , their limiting the Arrest to Jesus only allowed the Apostles to "scatter" as prophesied.

All "confusion" and "irreconcilable" ideas were from you contrived "false light" on the events.:yes:

 

[waitasec]

What is "irreconcilable" is your comments and the "context of the scriptural verses" in part one and two.
Matthew, Mark, and Luke do record some happenings in "gethsemane/mt of olives" that John didn't address in his Gospel. But that isn't a contradiction or "irreconcilable difference---Only an choice of what to write(as he wrote in 21:25). [/qYou posted John18:1, but added your own erroneous conclusion that the Prayer Jesus finished was the same as Jesus was praying in the Garden. Did You not read """Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it."""

The Prayer John wrote was "finished" was still at the place where they had eaten the Passover and from where Judas left to obtain that mob. THEN, HE left with the disciples and crossed over into the Garden. Matthew(26:37) and John and James were the three who "went yonder with HIM to pray".

nope.... john 14:31
"...Arise, let us go from here."
takes them out of the passover scene...

john 15 and 16 is a theology the writer(s) of john's gospel was trying to sell. you don't find jesus saying any of that in mark 14 matthew 26 or luke 22.

even john's prayer in chapter 17... contradict the prayer mark 14, matthew 26, and luke 22
how can he be saying: mk 14:36 And He said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will.”
mt 26:39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.”
luke 2242 saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.”
compare that to...
jn 17:1"...Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

this is a contradiction.
glorify your son who'd been given authority over all flesh, and has eternal life...i have finished the work...so glorify me with the glory i had before the world was. “Abba, Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will.”

these are two very different emotions....
john's jesus is confident and in control...
the synoptic gospels portray a scared unsure jesus.

and why is he talking about himself in 3rd person...in john

"3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent". strange.

John then describes the meeting of the groups Judas and those who he brought to arrest Jesus "came to the garden"/"thither" and (John 18:4), Jesus and those disciples He had awakened "went forth" because "the hour had come" for HIM to be betrayed.

prove it...show me where it says that in mark, matthew and luke.
jesus is asking the disciples to stay awake they don't go anywhere in the synoptic gospels...in john he prays his prayer then relocates...
that isn't happening in the the synoptic gospels....you can't show me what happened in john's gospel to explain what is happening in the synoptic gospels....that is the point.

Jesus had specifically told Peter that Peter would deny Jesus three times before the night was over. During the Praying in the Garden they were asked to Pray as well that "they enter not into temptation".

why ask the to keep watch...? you didn't answer that question.
how can peter be tempted to deny jesus if he was asleep?
what was the point in keeping him/them awake?
to tempt him....i suppose, according to the gospel of sincerly.

The Disciples knew of the impending Arrest and Crucifixion because Jesus had told them as late as two days previously.(even at the Passover supper).
Upon the groups meeting, We see the first "temptation"in the asking, "shall we draw the sword??"

had they been asleep they wouldn't have drawn the swords...

We see Peter failing the "temptation"---by actually drawing the sword and cutting off the ear. Later, Peter would also deny Christ three times as predicted. There are no contradictions.

had he been asleep, he wouldn't have done that

Waitasec, that "kiss" only was a sign of who they were to arrest. But like Peter and impulsively, Jesus wanted to know from that Mob who THEY intended to TAKE. "I have lost none". Those Angels may have been called for had the Mob stated "ALL of you". But , their limiting the Arrest to Jesus only allowed the Apostles to "scatter" as prophesied.

nevertheless the question still stands, did jesus get kissed in john? :no:
was he kissed in the synoptic gospels :yes:

did jesus approach judas in the synoptic gospels? :no:

did jesus approach judas in john? :yes:

what is the focus of this scene in gethsemane, peter's denial or that the
disciples were falling asleep in john...? neither.

what is the focus of this scene in gethsemane, peter's denial or that the
disciples were falling asleep in the synoptic gospels...the disciples were falling asleep

where was jesus and co when judas arrived in the synoptic gospels...? same place where jesus was praying.

where was jesus and co when judas arrived in johns gospel? in a different location after jesus' prayer

was jesus speaking to the disciples when judas arrived in the synoptic gospels :yes:

was jesus speaking to the disciples when judas arrived in johns gospels :no:

was jesus praying in gethsemane/mt of olives? in the synoptic gospel :yes:

did they move to another location after jesus prayer in the synoptic gospels? :no:

 

[sincerly]

nope.... john 14:31
"...Arise, let us go from here."
takes them out of the passover scene...

john 15 and 16 is a theology the writer(s) of john's gospel was trying to sell. you don't find jesus saying any of that in mark 14 matthew 26 or luke 22.

Yes, but that trip from the place of the passover supper to the the place "where was a garden" didn't stop the dialogue which was Jesus had begun. Paul acknowledged that promise of a comforter and HIS work in these verses:
Eph.1:13, "In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"
Eph.4:30, "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

In John 16:29-30, the disciples acknowledge what Jesus has been telling them on the way to the garden. "His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God."
That which Jesus told the Disciples and HIS prayer on the way to the garden are not the same as is recorded by those who recorded the prayer of Jesus at the garden. That is your(and Ehrman's) intended "added comments" to the truths written by the Gospel writers.
Thess.4:8, "He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit."

even john's prayer in chapter 17... contradict the prayer mark 14, matthew 26, and luke 22
how can he be saying: mk 14:36 And He said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will.”
mt 26:39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.”
luke 2242 saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.”
compare that to...
jn 17:1"...Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

this is a contradiction.
glorify your son who'd been given authority over all flesh, and has eternal life...i have finished the work...so glorify me with the glory i had before the world was. “Abba, Father, all things are possible for You. Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will.”

these are two very different emotions....
john's jesus is confident and in control...
the synoptic gospels portray a scared unsure jesus.

John is telling the Gospel concerning the Life and teachings of Jesus Christ from the divine point of view. John 1:1-3, 14, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Why shouldn't John's Jesus be confident and in control?? He is the SON of the Living GOD. HE is about to be Crucified and by so doing secure the Salvation/redemption of mankind from the curse of sin.

The synoptic Gospel writers are telling the same Life's story concerning the same Jesus, but from the "incarnated"/ humanity side of HIS Being.(as john 1:14 acknowledged) Tempted and tried in every way mankind is ,but without succumbing to the temptation(SIN), but as such, is still the Redeemer/Atonement for Sinners.

Therefore, in HIS humanity, Jesus showed emotions just as you and I would. No contradiction to/of the principles or facts. Again, those were supplied by your added comments of skepticism/assumptions.

"3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent". strange.

Are you acknowledging that "Eternal Life" is by/from belief in the Creator GOD and Jesus Christ whom GOD sent to show the "WAY"?? It isn't "strange"--- only "few find(are willing to follow) that narrow path".

prove it...show me where it says that in mark, matthew and luke.

Proof is where it is seen---not in a place where it is not mentioned. You would do well to keep the writer's gospel's in the context of that writer rather than trying to apply one writer's comments to another writer's record/expressions

why ask the to keep watch...? you didn't answer that question. that was answered in the context---"Lest you fall into temptation"----the "watching was joined to the praying".
how can peter be tempted to deny jesus if he was asleep?see above
what was the point in keeping him/them awake?see above
to tempt him....i suppose, according to the gospel of sincerly.Each of the Gospels had warned of the the temptation which would befall Peter specifically, but all would be tempted the "use the sword" as has been shown.

had they been asleep they wouldn't have drawn the swords...

nor would they have "went forth".

nevertheless the question still stands, did jesus get kissed in john? :no:

a lack of anthing being recorded doesn't confirm or deny it. Nor prove a contradiction.

was he kissed in the synoptic gospels :yes:

That was the agreed signal/sign; but doesn't prove John to be "contradictory" by not recording it in his recorded Gospel.

did jesus approach judas in the synoptic gospels? :no:

That was answered above, It was a sign pre-arranged by Judas and the band he brought; nothing disputed by John.

did jesus approach judas in john? :yes:

The groups approached each other, but Judas in his role to point out Jesus to the Mob approached Jesus in that capacity.

what is the focus of this scene in gethsemane, peter's denial or that the
disciples were falling asleep in the synoptic gospels...the disciples were falling asleep

the focus was upon Jesus praying and secondarily upon the (3)disciples who were told to watch and pray that they fall not into temptation.

where was jesus and co when judas arrived in the synoptic gospels...? same place where jesus was praying.

where was jesus and co when judas arrived in johns gospel? in a different location after jesus' prayer

the same place---in both

was jesus speaking to the disciples when judas arrived in the synoptic gospels :yes:

was jesus speaking to the disciples when judas arrived in johns gospels :no: Yes, in both accounts--- Matthew and Mark acknowledge that John was with them in the garden. Jesus spoke saying "arise ", "let's be going" and in John on the way to the Garden Jesus had been speaking to all the Disciples.

was jesus praying in gethsemane/mt of olives? in the synoptic gospel :yes:

did they move to another location after jesus prayer in the synoptic gospels? :no:

In John's accounting, the prayer he recorded and the speaking was ON THE WAY to the garden; whereas, the other Gospels were recording the prayers IN THE garden of Jesus agonizing concerning the ordeal that was just before HIM. No conflict/Contradictions.

 

[waitasec]

Yes, but that trip from the place of the passover supper to the the place "where was a garden" didn't stop the dialogue which was Jesus had begun.

<snip> moot.


In John 16:29-30, the disciples acknowledge what Jesus has been telling them on the way to the garden. "His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God."
That which Jesus told the Disciples and HIS prayer on the way to the garden are not the same as is recorded by those who recorded the prayer of Jesus at the garden. That is your(and Ehrman's) intended "added comments" to the truths written by the Gospel writers.
Thess.4:8, "He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit."

that doesn't matter...john 16 they are on their way to mt of olives...where jesus prayed
then in chapter 18:1 When he had finished praying, Jesus left with his disciples and crossed the Kidron Valley. On the other side there was a garden, and he and his disciples went into it.

synoptic gospels have it like this
1 last supper
2 prayer at mt of olives/gethsemane
3 wake up sleepy heads
4 prayer at mt of olives/gethsemane
5 wake up sleepy heads
6 prayer at mt of olives/gethsemane
7 wake up sleepy heads here comes my betray....mark 14:43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared....
matthew 26: 47 While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived.
luke 22:47 While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him,
no mention of going to the kidron valley in the synoptic gospels
or walking up to judas :no:

according to john
1 last supper
2 jesus talks on his way to the mt of olives john 15 and 16
3 john 17 jesus prays (according to the synoptic gospels mt of olives)
4 then they relocate to the the kidron valley john 18:1
5 jesus approaches them john 18:4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, &#8220;Who is it you want?&#8221;
6 arrest

there is a big discrepancy, we are not talking about omission...the sequence of events DO NOT ADD UP between the synoptic gospels and johns gospel...
it's there i didn't make it up....as much as you would like to say that i have, i haven't....

John is telling the Gospel concerning the Life and teachings of Jesus Christ from the divine point of view. John 1:1-3, 14, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

Why shouldn't John's Jesus be confident and in control?? He is the SON of the Living GOD. HE is about to be Crucified and by so doing secure the Salvation/redemption of mankind from the curse of sin.

because the jesus in the other gospels isn't...
"why have you forsaken me" isn't in john... but we see..."it is finished"
2 very different narratives.

no where does it say, "Take this cup away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will, but what You will." in johns gospel. :no:
instead you have a confident jesus that contradicts a scared jesus in the mark and matthew...

The synoptic Gospel writers are telling the same Life's story concerning the same Jesus, but from the "incarnated"/ humanity side of HIS Being.(as john 1:14 acknowledged) Tempted and tried in every way mankind is ,but without succumbing to the temptation(SIN), but as such, is still the Redeemer/Atonement for Sinners.

no they are not...
each gospel is taylor made for a particular time and audience, which is why we see discrepancies all over the place

Therefore, in HIS humanity, Jesus showed emotions just as you and I would.

which contradicts the confident jesus no less...

No contradiction to/of the principles or facts. Again, those were supplied by your added comments of skepticism/assumptions.

so was jesus confident or scared depends on what gospel your reading :yes:

Are you acknowledging that "Eternal Life" is by/from belief in the Creator GOD and Jesus Christ whom GOD sent to show the "WAY"?? It isn't "strange"--- only "few find(are willing to follow) that narrow path".

actually, i find it strange that jesus refers to himself in 3rd person as he prays to himself :areyoucra

Proof is where it is seen---not in a place where it is not mentioned. You would do well to keep the writer's gospel's in the context of that writer rather than trying to apply one writer's comments to another writer's record/expressions

if i have two conflicting accounts as to the whereabouts of a
suspect i need to do a little more research and not just take one persons word over the other...sorry i'll take bible scholars words over yours any day along with a dose of critical thinking.

a lack of anthing being recorded doesn't confirm or deny it. Nor prove a contradiction.
That was the agreed signal/sign; but doesn't prove John to be "contradictory" by not recording it in his recorded Gospe

That was answered above, It was a sign pre-arranged by Judas and the band he brought; nothing disputed by John.


The groups approached each other, but Judas in his role to point out Jesus to the Mob approached Jesus in that capacity

the focus was upon Jesus praying and secondarily upon the (3)disciples who were told to watch and pray that they fall not into temptation.]the same place---in both

sorry i have no idea what your point is here...the way you responded is very confusing.

Yes, in both accounts--- Matthew and Mark acknowledge that John was with them in the garden. Jesus spoke saying "arise ", "let's be going"

you forgot to mention
mark 14:42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!&#8221;
43 Just as he was speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, appeared.

see what you are saying here is that jesus says, 'wake up, lets go meet my betrayer!
so here comes the age old question, why did the disciples ask if they should draw their swords if jesus told them the reason for staying awake was to greet the betrayer with open arms?
in the synoptic gospels, the scene is set as if they were being approached by judas in a surprise attack.. and contradicts jesus approaching judas in john's gospel where they meet the betrayer waiting for him in the garden...
john 18:4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him went out and asked them, &#8220;Who is it you want?&#8221;

In John's accounting, the prayer he recorded and the speaking was ON THE WAY to the garden; whereas, the other Gospels were recording the prayers IN THE garden of Jesus agonizing concerning the ordeal that was just before HIM. No conflict/Contradictions.

on the way and in the
are contradictions

if it were on the way to the garden, why did he ask the disciples to 14:32 &#8220;Sit here while I pray.&#8221;
mt 26:36 .. &#8220;Sit here while I go over there and pray.&#8221;

luke 22: 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, &#8220;Pray that you will not fall into temptation.&#8221; 41 He withdrew about a stone&#8217;s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed,

i don't get how one can sit and walk at the same time

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly
Yes, but that trip from the place of the passover supper to the the place "where was a garden" didn't stop the dialogue which Jesus had begun.[/quote]

<snip> moot.

Just because it totally destroys your false preconceived conclusions doesn't make it "moot". Matt.26:30-31, 36, "And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives. Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad..... Then cometh Jesus with them unto a place called Gethsemane, and saith unto the disciples, Sit ye here, while I go and pray yonder. "
Matthew, also, records a continuing dilogue with the Disciples on the way to the garden.

I am aware of what all four of the writers of the Gospels are saying and they are are in agreement with the essentials of their accounts even in the inclusions or absences of particular details.

How many of the Gospels mentioned the Hymn which they sang?? Or the Angel which comforted Jesus??

there is a big discrepancy, we are not talking about omission...the sequence of events DO NOT ADD UP between the synoptic gospels and johns gospel...
it's there i didn't make it up....as much as you would like to say that i have, i haven't....

There are no big nor small discrepancies in the accountings. What is seen is the recordings in their own words the accountings of the life of Jesus and the events which happened in HIS LIFE----Not any dictation for them to follow.

As has continually been shown is the "confusion" and "discrepancies" claimed by you---have been concocted by Ehrman and yourself.

each gospel is taylor made for a particular time and audience, which is why we see discrepancies all over the place

That is contrary to Luke's Gospel(Good News) and purpose. Luke 1:1-3; and continuing in Acts1:1-3. "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,"" And what were they told to teach and had been teaching when they "took in hand" to record them?? Matt.28:19-20, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

so was jesus confident or scared depends on what gospel your reading :yes:

:no:, what is driving that assumption is NOT the Gospels NOR the writers, but your own assumed negative comments/remarks.

actually, i find it strange that jesus refers to himself in 3rd person as he prays to himself :areyoucra

More of your misunderstanding of the scriptural Truth. Jesus is praying to HIS Father who sent HIM to complete the Plan of salvation which was made and promised from "before the foundation of the world".

...why did the disciples ask if they should draw their swords if jesus told them the reason for staying awake was to greet the betrayer with open arms?

Case in point. The disciples were told to pray and remain alert(watch) "lest ye fall into temptation"----NOT the "IF reason" you concluded----"to greet the betrayer with open arms?"

...in the synoptic gospels, the scene is set as if they were being approached by judas in a surprise attack.. and contradicts jesus approaching judas in john's gospel where they meet the betrayer waiting for him in the garden...
john 18:4 Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him went out and asked them, “Who is it you want?”

Your "the scene is set as if " is a preconceived conclusion because all the Gospels have said that Jesus knew and made the disciples aware of the betrayal happening that night. It wasn't a "surprise" and no contradiction. Both the "coming" and "going " groups met . Judas did "approach" Jesus to give that pre-signal kiss.

on the way and in the

are contradictions

if it were on the way to the garden, why did he ask the disciples to 14:32 “Sit here while I pray.”
mt 26:36 .. “Sit here while I go over there and pray.”

luke 22: 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, “Pray that you will not fall into temptation.” 41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed,

i don't get how one can sit and walk at the same time

First, John Didn't write anything about the "in the garden" events before the encounter of the two groups. Second, The "praying" and instructions/admonitions/etc. which John recorded was done "on the way" from the passover site to that garden.
You will be able to "get how"---only when you quit trying to make the four Gospels fit into your/Ehrman's falsely contrived conclusions.

 

[waitasec]

Just because it totally destroys your false preconceived conclusions doesn't make it "moot".

you quoting paul was moot...

Case in point. The disciples were told to pray and remain alert(watch) "lest ye fall into temptation"----NOT the "IF reason" you concluded----"to greet the betrayer with open arms?"

why was it so important that they were to remain awake in the synoptic gospels?
how does one fall into temptation when they are asleep?

they weren't so sleepy in john as they were on their way to the kidron valley...were jesus approaches judas...
he didn't approach judas in the synoptic gospels...

this is the huge discrepancy...the narrative is inconsistent.
on one hand we have a scared jesus who wanted his cup taken but was willing to do his will:areyoucra (never understood that)
and in the other hand we see a very confident jesus "knowing all that was going to happen"

Judas did "approach" Jesus to give that pre-signal kiss.

not in john...
:sorry1:

Your "the scene is set as if " is a preconceived conclusion because all the Gospels have said that Jesus knew and made the disciples aware of the betrayal happening that night. It wasn't a "surprise" and no contradiction. Both the "coming" and "going " groups met . Judas did "approach" Jesus to give that pre-signal kiss.

tell you what, 1 you show me where jesus told them they were to meet the betrayer in the synoptic gospels since your claim is that all the gospels mention this.
2 show me where jesus approached judas (as he was talking to the disciples) in the synoptic gospels
3 show me where jesus was kissed in john's gospel,
4 show me the harmonious sequence of events
if you cannot show me my argument still stands no matter how much you disagree...

First, John Didn't write anything about the "in the garden" events before the encounter of the two groups.

and what do you suppose chapter 17 is about?

Second, The "praying" and instructions/admonitions/etc. which John recorded was done "on the way" from the passover site to that garden.

which doesn't follow suit when he tells his disciples to sit and watch as he prays in the synoptic narrative

You will be able to "get how"---only when you quit trying to make the four Gospels fit into your/Ehrman's falsely contrived conclusions.

i get it when i read unbiased scholars...however it seems you prefer to be placated...

 

[sincerly]

I see! My questions aren't answered. The hymn was mentioned by two of the writers, but not by two. Only Luke acknowledged that an angel gave confort to Jesus. Only John acknowledged that Jesus gave an example of foot washing to be done. Only John acknowledged that Jesus was to send the Comforter. Or the Jesus was "going to prepare a place for them"/Believers. There was and still are no contradictions; and details recorded by one writer doesn't contradict another writer who expresses the events in his witnwessing of the events or records from the/a collection of witnesses.

None of which negated the writings of the other writers. It only shows that more of the facets of the events enlarges the understand and truth of the events.

Matt.26 includes the betrayal to come; the communion; and the singing of a hymn. (at the passover site)
Then on the way to the garden; Jesus said they would be scattered and after HIS Resurrection He would meet with them in Galilee; Peter was told of his soon Denials of Jesus; and they arrived at the garden.

Mark, recorded the betrayal,; the communion; and the hymn; then the leaving for the garden; the scattering; and the meeting at Galilee; Peter's being told of his soon denials; and the arrival at the garden.

Luke, records the communion; then noted the betrayal; then addressed the strife among them concerning who would be greatest in the Kingdom; Then Peter's denials; followed by the instructions concerning preparation for the "being sent"; the two swords; and then the departing for the garden; and then "at the place."

John recorded after the supper(13:4) instituted foot washing; not all clean(one would betray-Judas given sop); "do quickly"; comforting admonition given; Peter told of his soon denials; speaks of second coming; Concerning GOD the Father and Believing; promising the Holy Spirit/Comforter; arise let us go hence.(departs for the Garden); Continues with message of "Abiding"/etc. the disciples to be HIS Witnesses; the disciples claim to have a deeper understanding of HIS Mission; ye shall be scattered; now Jesus Prays to the the Father; arrives at the garden

What's that old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink? Or "You can't convince a person against his will?" Almost 200 posts are evidence that they are true.

and what do you suppose chapter 17 is about?

A PRAYER About the LOVE which Jesus has for those HE was sent to teach about the Father's LOVE and the finishing of that assignment. Now for the Father to continue in that keeping the disciples from evil, since HE will no longer be in the world. Also, that the oneness of Jesus with the Father include all who will abide by the teachings issued from the Father and given to the Disciples to give to the world.

i get it when i read unbiased scholars...however it seems you prefer to be placated...

The Truth of the Scriptures do "placate"----It is those "unbiased scholars" who only speak lies that turn me off.

 

[waitasec]

show me where jesus told them they were to meet the betrayer in the synoptic gospels since your claim is that all the gospels mention this.
2 show me where jesus approached judas (as he was talking to the disciples) in the synoptic gospels
3 show me where jesus was kissed in john's gospel,
4 show me the harmonious sequence of events

you've shown me nothing...

they sang the hymn then they were on their way...and that is where you find the irreconcilable differences between the the synoptic gospels and john's

it seems to me you're a die hard irenaeus fan