IDF publishes unedited footage showing Hamas equipment in al-Shifa hospital

[Bthoth]

So yes, I am bothered that people are waving around Hamas's baseless numbers. Whoever does that is knowingly or unknowingly assisting Hamas, a well-known terror group, in achieving its goals.

That is a lousy assessment. A bonafide example of logical fallacy.

And a reminder: If you're interested in a detailed post on Btselem, I will do it. But only if you agree to the above terms, because I do have other things to do with my life. We are at war, after all.

anyone can obtain a solid quote from B'tselem:

Israel’s regime of apartheid and occupation is inextricably bound up in human rights violations. B’Tselem strives to end this regime, as that is the only way forward to a future in which human rights, democracy, liberty and equality are ensured to all people, both Palestinian and Israeli, living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

 

[Bthoth]

APARTHEID (definition)


separating, setting apart

The term “apartheid”, an Afrikaans word, derived from the French term “mettre à part”, literally translated to “separating, setting apart.” Apartheid is a policy that is founded on the idea of separating people based on racial or ethnic criteria.

 

[Orbit]

Really? Have you posted on atrocities in other places in the world in the past? Or does Israel top them all and only it deserves your undivided attention?

What a bizarre position to take.
It operates on the basis of logical fallacy.
In order to comment on the ongoing current use of my tax dollars to slaughter children, it is required that I have posted on RF about every past world atrocity? Nonsense.

 

[Bthoth]

What a bizarre position to take.
It operates on the basis of logical fallacy.
In order to comment on the ongoing current use of my tax dollars to slaughter children, it is required that I have posted on RF about every past world atrocity? Nonsense.

Solid, as that tactic is irrational.

 

[Revoltingest]

Solid, as that tactic is irrational.

Any port in a storm when one is getting
one's pigu soundly kicked, & is desperate.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The idea that Jewish and non-Jewish citizens of Israel have equality is silly to me. They even have their own form of antimisegenation laws where a Jew and a non-Jew can't marry.

Myth: All Israelis are equal | Decolonize Palestine

Israel's existence as a colonial ethnocracy precludes any possibility for creating an equal society. While useful as a propaganda claim, it falls apart under the most cursory of research.

decolonizepalestine.com

Israel’s hugely controversial “nation-state” law, explained

Supporters call Israel’s new Jewish nation-state law a “defining moment.” Critics say it’s “apartheid.”

www.vox.com

 

[Bthoth]

Any port in a storm when one is getting
one's pigu soundly kicked, & is desperate.

But each can grow without taking it personal.

What sickens me, is how so many Jews are taking abuse because of the violence which continues because there is so much unmitigated bias.

 

[Harel13]

Unlike so many here, we've investigated
the word's proper usage, & apply without
pro-Israel blind prejudice.
I suppose that many Jews & Israelis are
also Israel haters? I eagerly await your
explanation of these news items...

More American Jews are calling Israel an ‘apartheid’ state, and big organizations are struggling to fight the trend - Jewish Telegraphic Agency

"Organizations look at many members of the Jewish community, including particularly younger ones, and disregard them," said the head of one group.

www.jta.org

Why an Israeli Human-Rights Organization Decided to Call Israel an Apartheid Regime

There is no guarantee that B’Tselem’s statement will enable change, although it has infuriated the government.

www.newyorker.com

First, undoubtedly there are Jews that hate Israel.
Second, I can't read the New Yorker article. It appears I have run out of free articles to read.
Third, the JTA article doesn't delve into the meaning of apartheid and why that term is relevant to be applied to Israel.
Fourth, do you have evidence that these Jews know what the term apartheid means and why it is relevant to apply to Israel?
Fifth, do you know what the term apartheid means and why it is relevant to apply that term to Israel?
All I see in the JTA article is the the classic irrelevant claim that Israel oppresses Palestinians as though they are its citizens and it is meant to freely give them equal rights like it does to Arab Israelis, Druze, Bedouins, Circassians, Maronites and other minorities. Which we all know - I assume "we" since you just claimed you've investigated the topic - is like stating that the USA should give equal rights to Canadians, Mexicans and Cubans who never applied for citizenship in the United States, or Poland given citizenship to Czechs or Germans who never applied for citizenship in Poland. Ridiculous, am I right? I also saw anger at Israel daring to strike Gaza, as though it is striking its own citizens, and not an enemy territory controlled by a terrorist government and never even thought to warn them, though it did. Countless times. The gall.

So, remind me again what the term apartheid means and why it is relevant to apply that term to Israel? Since you're such a big expert, that is.

 

[Revoltingest]

But each can grow without taking it personal.

When religion is involved,
equanimity usually suffers badly.

What sickens me, is how so many Jews are taking abuse because of the violence which continues because there is so much unmitigated bias.

Jews & Muslims are both taking wrongful abuse.

 

[Harel13]

What a bizarre position to take.
It operates on the basis of logical fallacy.
In order to comment on the ongoing current use of my tax dollars to slaughter children, it is required that I have posted on RF about every past world atrocity? Nonsense.

It would make you seem a lot less hypocritical. US tax money has been going to many countries, including some that have committed atrocities far worse than anything you can blame Israel for. I'll be hanging around RF, waiting to see whether you'll consider shedding a tear for all the Afghanis exiled from Pakistan this moment, a country which received billions in US foreign aid. I'll be leaving our discussion for now. Maybe I'll catch you again on another thread. Ciao.

 

[rosends]

APARTHEID (definition)


separating, setting apart

The term “apartheid”, an Afrikaans word, derived from the French term “mettre à part”, literally translated to “separating, setting apart.” Apartheid is a policy that is founded on the idea of separating people based on racial or ethnic criteria.

so you mean the way that illegal immigrants in the US are set apart from actual US citizens when it comes to voting?
Or like how Arabs in Israel are not required to serve in the military?
Women are set apart in the US when they can't use men's bathrooms and vice versa.

the right of return in so many countries in the world? Right of return - Wikipedia

Apartheid everywhere!

 

[Bthoth]

The idea that Jewish and non-Jewish citizens of Israel have equality is silly to me. They even have their own form of antimisegenation laws where a Jew and a non-Jew can't marry.

One reason israel cannot give equality is they could lose the 'jewish' identity by vote.

 

[Orbit]

First, undoubtedly there are Jews that hate Israel.
Second, I can't read the New Yorker article. It appears I have run out of free articles to read.
Third, the JTA article doesn't delve into the meaning of apartheid and why that term is relevant to be applied to Israel.
Fourth, do you have evidence that these Jews know what the term apartheid means and why it is relevant to apply to Israel?
Fifth, do you know what the term apartheid means and why it is relevant to apply that term to Israel?
All I see in the JTA article is the the classic irrelevant claim that Israel oppresses Palestinians as though they are its citizens and it is meant to freely give them equal rights like it does to Arab Israelis, Druze, Bedouins, Circassians, Maronites and other minorities. Which we all know - I assume "we" since you just claimed you've investigated the topic - is like stating that the USA should give equal rights to Canadians, Mexicans and Cubans who never applied for citizenship in the United States, or Poland given citizenship to Czechs or Germans who never applied for citizenship in Poland. Ridiculous, am I right? I also saw anger at Israel daring to strike Gaza, as though it is striking its own citizens, and not an enemy territory controlled by a terrorist government and never even thought to warn them, though it did. Countless times. The gall.

So, remind me again what the term apartheid means and why it is relevant to apply that term to Israel? Since you're such a big expert, that is.

The apartheid is apparent to outside observers:

"Amnesty is the latest rights advocate to accuse Israel of operating an apartheid system, joining former President Jimmy Carter, Human Rights Watch and the Israeli human rights group B'Tselem."

Here is a U.N. human rights expert on the issue:

Israel’s 55-year occupation of Palestinian Territory is apartheid – UN human rights expert

GENEVA (25 March 2022) – A UN expert called today on the international community to accept and adopt the findings in his current report, echoing recent findings by Palestinian, Israeli and international human rights organisations, that apartheid is being practiced by Israel in the occupied...

www.ohchr.org

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

One reason israel cannot give equality is they could lose the 'jewish' identity by vote.

Exactly. They cannot be a "Jewish state" and a free, democratic state at the same time.

 

[Orbit]

It would make you seem a lot less hypocritical. US tax money has been going to many countries, including some that have committed atrocities far worse than anything you can blame Israel for. I'll be hanging around RF, waiting to see whether you'll consider shedding a tear for all the Afghanis exiled from Pakistan this moment, a country which received billions in US foreign aid. I'll be leaving our discussion for now. Maybe I'll catch you again on another thread. Ciao.

You really want to make this personal, don't you?
It's a way of distracting from the actual issue at hand.

 

[Revoltingest]

First, undoubtedly there are Jews that hate Israel.

Evidence?

Second, I can't read the New Yorker article. It appears I have run out of free articles to read.

The headline tells all.

Third, the JTA article doesn't delve into the meaning of apartheid and why that term is relevant to be applied to Israel.
Fourth, do you have evidence that these Jews know what the term apartheid means and why it is relevant to apply to Israel?
Fifth, do you know what the term apartheid means and why it is relevant to apply that term to Israel?
All I see in the JTA article is the the classic irrelevant claim that Israel oppresses Palestinians as though they are its citizens and it is meant to freely give them equal rights like it does to Arab Israelis, Druze, Bedouins, Circassians, Maronites and other minorities. Which we all know - I assume "we" since you just claimed you've investigated the topic - is like stating that the USA should give equal rights to Canadians, Mexicans and Cubans who never applied for citizenship in the United States, or Poland given citizenship to Czechs or Germans who never applied for citizenship in Poland. Ridiculous, am I right? I also saw anger at Israel daring to strike Gaza, as though it is striking its own citizens, and not an enemy territory controlled by a terrorist government and never even thought to warn them, though it did. Countless times. The gall.

So, remind me again what the term apartheid means and why it is relevant to apply that term to Israel? Since you're such a big expert, that is.

Apartheid has a broad definition.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

2. any system or practice that separates people according to color, ethnicity, caste, etc.

How are people in Israel separated?
In short, Israel's laws, both de juro & defacto
differ for Jews & non-Jews, to the detriment
of the latter.
And culturally, Muslims' lives are valued less,
eg, allowing settlers to kill & rob Palestinians
& Arabs with impunity.
Arrest rates, conviction rates, sentences, property
rights, etc vary with one's religion.

Some more detail....

Israeli apartheid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Harel13]

How are people in Israel separated?
In short, Israel's laws, both de juro & defacto
differ for Jews & non-Jews, to the detriment
of the latter.
And culturally, Muslims' lives are valued less,
eg, allowing settlers to kill & rob Palestinians
& Arabs with impunity.
Arrest rates, conviction rates, sentences, property
rights, etc vary with one's religion.

There you go again. Conflating citizens of Israel with people who are most assuredly not citizens of Israel. Why should the Polish government treat Germans the same way it treats Polish citizens? You seem to keep skirting around this issue.

 

[Harel13]

You really want to make this personal, don't you?
It's a way of distracting from the actual issue at hand.

Nice deflection (not). Like I said, I'll be waiting around RF to see whether you have it in you to decry Pakistani treatment of Afghanis, the same country who received billions of your tax money. Toodles.

 

[Revoltingest]

Conflating citizens of Israel...

The citizens of Israel vote for the leaders who
implement apartheid. And the a culture of
oppression & apartheid is real, even if some
in Israel don't partake.

 

[Harel13]

The citizens of Israel vote for the leaders who
implement apartheid. And the a culture of
oppression & apartheid is real, even if some
in Israel don't partake.

Why should the Polish government treat Germans who do not hold Polish citizenship the same way it treats Polish citizens?