IDF publishes unedited footage showing Hamas equipment in al-Shifa hospital

[oldbadger]

MRI machines are very dangerous without proper precautions.
Accidents happen when safety protocols aren't perfect.

I had to look at that pic for several seconds to see that a whole hospital bed was stuck in the MRI.
I wonder if any patient had been within? Very exciting.
I expect that somebody got a written warning for that!

Thankyou for the pic.

 

[Harel13]

Or it answers his, maybe?

Whose?

 

[Revoltingest]

I had to look at that pic for several seconds to see that a whole hospital bed was stuck in the MRI.
I wonder if any patient had been within? Very exciting.
I expect that somebody got a written warning for that!

Thankyou for the pic.

I've done some reading about MRI accidents.
It started when I had to spend some time in one.
I had my head examined first.
(No metal was found....just empty space.)

 

[libre]

You are one of the members most arguing that Israel has committed and is committing war crimes. As explained above to @Yerda, any serious discussion of whether Israel has committed war crimes can only start after both sides have agreed that Israel is being held to a higher standard, otherwise anyone calling out Israel for war crimes is presenting a baseless accusation. Since you have been hypocritical on this topic, like thousands of people worldwide, if not millions or more, and have thus far failed to both admit that Israel is being held to a higher standard and to decry atrocities being committed worldwide, including other Middle Eastern and/or Muslim countries, your claims of Israel having committed war crimes are utterly meaningless. It doesn't matter how many reports you present claiming that Israel is an apartheid country and that it's been committing war crimes for decades. These sources are consistent in only two things: irrationally holding Israel to a higher standard than any other country in the world, and largely ignoring atrocities committed in other countries or by other political entities. You're welcome to continue to call this argument a deflection, but that is in itself a deflection away from the inconsistency of your logic.

I am perfectly open for an honest discussion regarding Israel's actions over the decades, but that is on condition that the person debating with me will be honest regarding international hypocrisy on Israel's methods in war time and daily life.

I've said my piece to you a few times now in different ways. If you once again reply to me with anything but willingness to admit the inconsistency applied to Israel, then I see no point in replying to you any further on this particular matter.

I fundamentally reject the proposition that Israel is being held to a higher standard than other countries in the world.

Muslim countries have been occupied, bombed to oblivion and otherwise decimated for war crimes, some of which even turned out to be fictional.

Israel has been found by the UN to be in violation of international law time and time again and have shown to have impunity because it is backed by European and American Imperialists.

If you choose to take the the stance that 'It doesn't matter how many reports you present', you are effectively saying 'It doesn't matter how much evidence you have, I have already chosen a position'.

 

[Bthoth]

Oh, boohoo.
Israel has actually been held to a much lower standard.
USA vetoes any UN resolution Israel doesn't like.
Israel has been above criticism for its long history of
murder, theft, maiming, torture, group punishment,
apartheid, corruption, & war crimes. They've always
played the anti-semitism, Hitler, Holocaust, victim
cards to shut down criticism. Doesn't work anymore.

That is kind of rough but I see why you reacted that way.

Israelis defenders do not care and have never held a clear conscious on addressing the dialogue or specific issues.

 

[Bthoth]

Or it answers his, maybe?
An MRI room and behind its scanner is a really silly place to hide large ferrous objects.

Yes..... there will be bunkers, but probably not under any hospitals.

Israel's leadership could be in the process of causing a holocaust, and I've watched news footage of Israel's ambassador to the UK answering such suggestions by accusing the journalist of anti-Semitism. Over here Jewish people are speaking out against the Israeli leadership.

Here in the USA Jews are condemning israel constantly and have been for decades but the israeli defenders will call them horrible names, that the average person could never say in any public arena.

The biblical prophecy identify israel as the dross. They are not the Jews but still expect to be called Jewish.

 

[rosends]

Here in the USA Jews are condemning israel constantly and have been for decades but the israeli defenders will call them horrible names, that the average person could never say in any public arena.

The biblical prophecy identify israel as the dross. They are not the Jews but still expect to be called Jewish.

Here in the USA Jews are supporting Israel constantly (we heard from a congressman today about how the government is standing by Israel). How much interaction do you have American Jews every day? I interact with over 1000 every day.

 

[Orbit]

Here in the USA Jews are supporting Israel constantly (we heard from a congressman today about how the government is standing by Israel). How much interaction do you have American Jews every day? I interact with over 1000 every day.

Jews make up 2.4% of the U.S. population. We couldn't interact with 1,000 of them if we wanted to. But we do interact with those in our communities. There is a divide between younger and older Jews on the issues of Zionism in general, and bombing Gaza in particular.

You are right that the U.S. Congress supports Israel. But even there, 34 of them have called for a ceasefire.

The reason that most in the Congress support Israel, and that (older) Americans in general support Israel is because they are Christian, and have been taught since birth that the state of Israel is necessary, and that war in the region is necessary, to fulfill the prophecies in the Book of Revelation about the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[rosends]

Jews make up 2.4% of the U.S. population. We couldn't interact with 1,000 of them if we wanted to. But we do interact with those in our communities. There is a divide between younger and older Jews on the issues of Zionism in general, and bombing Gaza in particular.

You are right that the U.S. Congress supports Israel. But even there, 34 of them have called for a ceasefire.

The reason that most in the Congress support Israel, and that (older) Americans in general support Israel is because they are Christian, and have been taught since birth that the state of Israel is necessary, and that war in the region is necessary, to fulfill the prophecies in the Book of Revelation about the Second Coming of Christ.

the 1000 I interact with are younger.

 

[Bthoth]

Here in the USA Jews are supporting Israel constantly

"Jewish Voice for Peace is guided by a vision of justice, equality and freedom for all people. We unequivocally oppose Zionism because it is counter to those ideals."

"We know that opposing Zionism, or even discussing it, can be painful, can strike at the deepest trauma and greatest fears of many of us."

Why, because the corrupt, the dross, the israeli will try to ruin them.

A simple search will identify many Jews against israel but the labels that have been given to them are horrrible.

Here is a simple wiki comment: "Today, some secular Jews, particularly socialists and Marxists, continue to oppose the State of Israel on anti-imperialist and human rights grounds. Many oppose it as a form of nationalism, which they argue to be a product of capitalist societies."

(we heard from a congressman today about how the government is standing by Israel).

OK Politicians do support that apartheid. That is why israel get's away with murder. "WE" all know that.

How much interaction do you have American Jews every day? I interact with over 1000 every day.

No need for me to comment as nothing I can say will help you overcome the bias.

If anything, you could call me names and get likes from the rude.

Hundreds arrested as US Jews protest against Israel’s Gaza assault​

The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com › world › oct › jewish-...



Oct 19, 2023 — Protesters in Washington demand ceasefire, marking rift in community as Anti-Defamation League condemns demonstration.



You dont like the ADL, the UN or any that are against israel................... So I have my doubts of what you claim to be.

I am well aware of how the biased care nothing of the integrity of a person.

 

[rosends]

"Jewish Voice for Peace is guided by a vision of justice, equality and freedom for all people. We unequivocally oppose Zionism because it is counter to those ideals."

"We know that opposing Zionism, or even discussing it, can be painful, can strike at the deepest trauma and greatest fears of many of us."

Why, because the corrupt, the dross, the israeli will try to ruin them.

A simple search will identify many Jews against israel but the labels that have been given to them are horrrible.

Here is a simple wiki comment: "Today, some secular Jews, particularly socialists and Marxists, continue to oppose the State of Israel on anti-imperialist and human rights grounds. Many oppose it as a form of nationalism, which they argue to be a product of capitalist societies."

OK Politicians do support that apartheid. That is why israel get's away with murder. "WE" all know that.

No need for me to comment as nothing I can say will help you overcome the bias.

If anything, you could call me names and get likes from the rude.

Hundreds arrested as US Jews protest against Israel’s Gaza assault​

The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com › world › oct › jewish-...



Oct 19, 2023 — Protesters in Washington demand ceasefire, marking rift in community as Anti-Defamation League condemns demonstration.



You dont like the ADL, the UN or any that are against israel................... So I have my doubts of what you claim to be.

I am well aware of how the biased care nothing of the integrity of a person.

so your "proof" is JVP, "some secular Jews". I was at a rally of 290,000 American Jews. You haven't a clue and subscribe to the fallacy of "apartheid" speak. Sad.

 

[Bthoth]

so your "proof" is JVP, "some secular Jews".

JVP is far older than 10/7..... JVP is just one of the few groups that has survived the abuse that israelis have imposed upon them for decades.

I was at a rally of 290,000 American Jews.

Israel 'Is an Apartheid State,' a Quarter of U.S. Jews Say in ...​

Jul 13, 2021 — The Findings Are Striking as Mainstream pro-Israel Organizations Struggle to Make the Case That Israel Is Central to Jewish Identity

You haven't a clue and subscribe to the fallacy of "apartheid" speak. Sad.

Because you have no scope of identifying israel as dividing the populations.

You dont care.

 

[rosends]

JVP is far older than 10/7..... JVP is just one of the few groups that has survived the abuse that israelis have imposed upon them for decades.

Israel 'Is an Apartheid State,' a Quarter of U.S. Jews Say in ...​

Jul 13, 2021 — The Findings Are Striking as Mainstream pro-Israel Organizations Struggle to Make the Case That Israel Is Central to Jewish Identity

Because you have no scope of identifying israel as dividing the populations.

You dont care.

I care, you just don't know. You speak from outside of a population, based on some limited articles you find online and think you understand an entire community. You don't.

 

[Yerda]

But that's not what is happening here. The application of a use in one country, under international law, should be the way it is applied to all countries. If it wouldn't be used in a European country that has different rules for non-citizens, why would it be required in Israel? No one is asking anyone to criticize anyone else. All that is being pointed out is that if other people AREN'T being criticized, why choose to criticize Israel for the same behavior? That creates a double standard, expecting behavior by Israel that isn't expected of others.

Let me say what I've seen or been involved in.

Lots of countries have sanctions against Russia and individual Russians as a result of the aggression in Ukraine. People protested outside the Russian embassies in lots of places. Most major cities in Europe seemed to have rallies.

There were regular protests, in the city I in which I live, against the Saudi's bombing of Yemen.

People all over the world marched against the invasion of Iraq. There were annual rallies bring out hundreds of thousands of people every year in the UK, people calling for the leaders involved to be arrested and charged with war crimes.

The people of the UK campaigned for years against China's treatment of Tibet, while Hong Kong and Taiwan have regularly made the news and been the subject of a lots of criticism of the Chinese government.

There was an anti-apartheid movement that campaigned for ages against the regime in South Africa.

The leaders of Syrai, Libya, Iran etc are the constant focus of criticism by the press and political groups in loads of countries.

Every major human rights organisation that criticises Israel releases reports documenting human rights abuses all over the world.

If a country in Europe controlled the territory of a stateless people, frequently dropping bombs on their homes, schools, hospitals and refugee camps, do you think there would be no criticism?

I agree that in a fair, objective world, it would not be a very useful defense. The problem is that Israel is consistently held to a much higher standard than other countries, but few will admit to that. That is why, from time to time, I try to get people to admit they hold Israel to a higher standard. Few, if any, ever do. Certainly, seeing a child be killed is saddening. But it remains a question to be debated whether Israel's actions in this war, as well as in previous operations, may be considered actual war crimes. That is not a term to be used lightly. People often point to the UN or other human rights groups who have unequivocally announced that Israel is at fault and has, indeed, committed war crimes. However, typically these groups fail entirely or almost entirely to denounce other political entities and even terrorist organizations for acts some may argue are far worse than what Israel does. For example, hop over now to Wikipedia and check out who sits on the Human Rights Council. You may be surprised to discover that these are some of the worst human rights violators in the world. This tells me that the UN is likely not an objective body. So why should I hang my head in shame when it tells me that my country commited war crimes? What reason do I have to believe its objectivity on the matter? Why should I put my faith in the UN's judgment?

We can start having a real discussion regarding the legitimacy of Israel's methods both in war time and in daily life once we can all agree that the UN and many other human rights groups are holding Israel to a far higher standard, in a grossly hypocritical manner, for highly unclear reasons. Yes, I am open to a serious discussion on the topic which will likely lead me to concede many things. But only when concessions are also made on the other side. So far, not a single user here on RF has agreed to make these concessions (since I've joined the site, that is).

Listen, I don't think Israel is guilty of anything that other countries haven't done. I'm from the UK. My government participated in lots of historical cruelty and some pretty recent atrocities. I don't think you should be any more ashamed than I am. Which is not much cause I can't do a whole lot about it.

If I accept that there are other countries doing terrible things (which there certainly are) does this make my claim that Israel is doing terrible things more legitimate?

If I see a man knife another man in the street, am I not right to object, even if there is a history of violence between the two and some other man who lives round the corner is even more violent?

 

[Bthoth]

I care, you just don't know. You speak from outside of a population, based on some limited articles you find online and think you understand an entire community.

Of course, you just know everything regarding the apartheid.

It's your right to tell me what I am thinking and that articles from people that claim to be jewish are irrelevant if they do not fit your narrative.

i get it.

You dont like accepting that israel is an apartheid and with the constant oppression, bombing and bias, that israel is creating more HAMAS/resistance/terrorist.

Until you can develop a reasoned account and responsibility, most everyone will be against your opinion except from the like kind.

I have understood the divide in palestine for a long time. I love judaism and the responsibility of being Jewish but Jews are not obtuse and capable to overcome the requirement of defending israel if it means having to lie to themselves to do so.

 

[InChrist]

You got that right. I'm shocked by the outpouring of dehumanizing hatred and genocidal rhetoric spewing from Zionists about the Palestinian people lately. It is surely evil.

By the way, this is how the "chosen" treat your brothers and sisters in Christ. They spit on Christians, assault them, desecrate churches and cemetaries. The IDF and Israeli forces have have bombed churches, restricted Christian worship and killed Christians. For example, an IDF sniper murdered the popular Palestinian-American journalist, Shireen Abu Akleh, as she reported. They later violently disrupted her funeral and a few weeks ago, destroyed a memorial to her in Gaza! Where are her fellow Christians and their outrage? Where's the US government? I guess her life doesn't matter! Have fun supporting people who would spit on you and attack you. (On the other hand, there are Palestinian Christians and Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet. Judaism has a burning hatred of Christ.)

I appreciate your thoughts. I am definitely concerned about the Palestinian Christians and other Palestinians in Gaza. I’ve said elsewhere; war is destructive and awful. I don’t think Israel is guilt-free, nor do I support wrong doing on their part. The following article pretty much lines up with my thinking on the subject, if you care to read it.

“Israeli officials have a special responsibility to make sure these Christians are safe and cared for”

CRISIS UPDATE: Gaza’s 1,000 Christians need urgent prayers, aid and a safe haven lest they face genocide from Hamas

Israeli officials have a special responsibility to make sure these Christians are safe and cared for

allisrael.com

 

[InChrist]

I think the Middle East is the best argument for anti-theism that I've ever seen.

Tell God that… this is all prophetic. I think it’s the best argument that humanity needs the Savior.

 

[Orbit]

Tell God that… this is all prophetic. I think it’s the best argument that humanity needs the Savior.

So all those Jews, who don't believe Jesus was the Messiah, yet are God's "Chosen People", how does that work out for them?

 

[InChrist]

So all those Jews, who don't believe Jesus was the Messiah, yet are God's "Chosen People", how does that work out for them?

According to the scriptures, God made the covenant with Israel and chose them for His purposes and He will fulfill it…whether they fall short, mess up, or disbelieve that Jesus is the promised Messiah. I think this war in the Middle East indicates that soon the Age of Grace will end and the Tribulation period will begin. The church/Christians will be gone. That is how it works out. God will again be dealing directly with Israel. Israel and the unbelieving world will go through tribulation as never experienced on earth before. Israel will come to recognize their Messiah, need for repentance and forgiveness and be saved.



“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10

And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
Romans 1:26-27

 

[Bthoth]

According to the scriptures, God made the covenant with Israel and chose them for His purposes and He will fulfill it…

The covenant is for following the rules. Not for oppressing people to retain a state in the image that they believe. It's for keeping the commandments no matter the event.

whether they fall short, mess up, or disbelieve that Jesus is the promised Messiah. I think this war in the Middle East indicates that soon the Age of Grace will end and the Tribulation period will begin.

That is what Ezek 22 is about.

The church/Christians will be gone. That is how it works out. God will again be dealing directly with Israel.

What is real is what saves mankind. Enabling each to be capable to follow the rules and know exactly why.

Israel and the unbelieving world will go through tribulation as never experienced on earth before. Israel will come to recognize their Messiah, need for repentance and forgiveness and be saved.

Jesus was not the man to fulfill and unveil. Nor did jesus create the house of knowledge (psion) because he did not have the christos (name of god)

“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10

That has nothing to do with Jesus unless of course you expect him to come back to finish the job and is condemned again.

And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
Romans 1:26-27

Letter between chuch (romans) What is real, is what saves / enables / delivers mankind. Psion is the house of knowledge but will not be opened until 'the name' is to be unveiled. Then the 12 will be called to finish the works.