If a gay or lesbien want to back normal?

[Godobeyer]

Can you be a moderate Muslim and oppose criminal punishment for homosexuality, in your view?

homosexual is forbiden in Islam ,I am not sure about punishement .

some scholars had an opinion that homosex should be treated by
psychiatrist and religious way .
.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you, Luis. I was primarily thinking of Islam, but anywhere really. I think it is necessary to think on the individual level, the damage to individual families, to bring it close to home. Homophobes have been known to change when its close to home, here in America anyway. Hatred is just easier at a distance. As Riverwolf said earlier, "We're talking real people here." So whether it's an atheist who begets a theist, a theist having an atheist, a misogynist having a girl, or whatever, how far will people go? But since there isn't a prenatal test for gay yet, these wonderful souls get born into a place where they're hated... and hated so bad they may have shortened life. We already know that in many cultures, females fetuses are aborted at drastic rates.

 

[Godobeyer]

Excellent question. Are you asking about Muslim cultures specifically?

Here in Brazil (a basically Christian culture, with strong Catholic and Protestant influences) there are those who simply accept it and give full support, there are those who pretend not to have noticed or understood, there are those who avoid contact altogether and attempt to create situations which make it difficult for the matter to be raised.

And yes, there are those who insist on violent disapproval of their own offspring due to their homosexuality. It is unusual, but definitely not unheard of, for that to escalate all the way up to physical violence and even murder.

As a sidenote, male homosexuality is all but assumed to happen, almost automatically, in our prisons. It seems to be involved in some sort of establishment of boundaries and power hierarchies.

IS homosex feel shame and strange and rejected between his people ? I guess yes in most of situations .

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

homosexual is forbiden in Islam ,I am not sure about punishement .

some scholars had an opinion that homosex should be treated by
psychiatrist and religious way .
.

Why would you want a psychiatrist to "treat" something that isn't a psychiatric condition?

 

[Riverwolf]

IS homosex feel shame and strange and rejected between his people ? I guess yes in most of situations .

If you're ever in the US, I recommend attending a Gay Pride parade. There's no shame to be found in such groups. In fact, many gay people I've talked to have shown far more joy and happiness than others.

We're learning how to accept people of varying sexual orientations, so they don't have to feel culturally-induced shame anymore.

 

[Riverwolf]

As a sidenote, male homosexuality is all but assumed to happen, almost automatically, in our prisons. It seems to be involved in some sort of establishment of boundaries and power hierarchies.

Sadly, the same is true in the US, to the point where it's only ever brought up as a joke. But in this case, we're not talking about consensual sex between adults; we're talking about rape.

 

[Godobeyer]

Why not? You're basically saying that certain people are inherently "wrong" just in their nature, and that they need "fixing". How is that not provoking? How would you feel if you were told that being a Middle-Easterner was "abnormal"?

...by the way, being "provoking" isn't an inherently bad thing. It can be a very good thing in many situations.

In my society i met gays and lesbiens , but they are not majority .

We considere the gay psychiatrist problem more than normal man .

accautly gay had bad reputation here, this act always linked to bad peaple (gangs).

 

[Riverwolf]

In my society i met gays and lesbiens , but they are not majority .

Middle-Easterners aren't the majority here, either.

You've probably met far more than you know. I'd bet that 90% of the homosexual, bisexual, etc. people you've met didn't say they were, and maybe even don't know they are.

We considere the gay psychiatrist problem more than normal man .

And I consider that consideration ignorant at best.

accautly gay had bad reputation here, this act always linked to bad peaple (gangs).

Just like Muslims in many parts of Europe.

 

[Underhill]

i need one ,since you (posters) deny my opinion .

pre-judging former gays are liars or made fake videos , had no sense because you had no proof "just pre-judging" by personal opinion .

actually they recount life experience . so you could take them as reference . or not , that's up to you .

The silly thing is looking at gay or straight as a switch you turn on or off. It is more like a scale, with people at all points in between. I don't doubt all people who claim to have 'gotten over' being gay. But I do doubt their position on that scale.

Let's put it another way. Would you, as a presumed straight person, be able to give up being straight? I know I wouldn't. Living as a gay person just isn't an option for me.

Now I've known those who were bi-sexual and fell somewhere in the middle of that scale. I could believe one of them could "see the light". Not because they changed who they are, but because they could go either way and simply made a choice.

If these people who claim to have gotten over their gayness were legitimately gay, and not bisexual, I feel sorry for them. Because the only other option I can see is that they have been shamed into a lifestyle choice that cannot possibly make them happy any more than I could be happy pretending to be a gay man.

 

[Godobeyer]

There are a lot of countries that still haven't legalized same-sex marriage, unfortunately. Hopefully they will in the future, because equal rights for people should be the basis for any developed country.

The U.S. is behind many countries in terms of equality, yes. It is catching up to them though, which can't be said for a lot of other countries.

may US not religious country, so it's blamed more ?

That's informative (and what I expected, too).

Thanks for your help.

don't tell me that you expect that i will said gay marriage is allowed in Islam ?

 

[Godobeyer]

Middle-Easterners aren't the majority here, either.

You've probably met far more than you know. I'd bet that 90% of the homosexual, bisexual, etc. people you've met didn't say they were, and maybe even don't know they are.

how do you know that i met ? it's only God had that option i guess.

And I consider that consideration ignorant at best.

that's your opinion .

Just like Muslims in many parts of Europe.

what you mean ?

 

[Godobeyer]

The silly thing is looking at gay or straight as a switch you turn on or off. It is more like a scale, with people at all points in between. I don't doubt all people who claim to have 'gotten over' being gay. But I do doubt their position on that scale.

Let's put it another way. Would you, as a presumed straight person, be able to give up being straight? I know I wouldn't. Living as a gay person just isn't an option for me.

Now I've known those who were bi-sexual and fell somewhere in the middle of that scale. I could believe one of them could "see the light". Not because they changed who they are, but because they could go either way and simply made a choice.

If these people who claim to have gotten over their gayness were legitimately gay, and not bisexual, I feel sorry for them. Because the only other option I can see is that they have been shamed into a lifestyle choice that cannot possibly make them happy any more than I could be happy pretending to be a gay man.

what you mean by straight person ?

 

[Riverwolf]

how do you know that i met ? it's only God had that option i guess.

I said "probably". I don't know.

But I do know this: in societies where homosexuality is discriminated against, homosexuals are naturally going to try hiding their orientation as best they can. So when asked, they'll say the love women. They are likely to even have a wife with children. Perhaps they're even unaware, or in denial, of their orientation themselves. But they're still homosexual, and nothing's going to change that.

Therefore, even you don't know how many homosexuals, bisexuals, pansexuals, asexuals, etc. you've met.

that's your opinion .

Not all opinions are created equal.

what you mean ?

I understand that in many parts of Europe, Muslims are associated with gang activity and low-income neighborhoods.

 

[Underhill]

what you mean by straight person ?

Attracted to the opposite gender...

 

[Godobeyer]

Attracted to the opposite gender...

I agree .

if we play match the words , gays and lesbiens are not straight persons .

 

[Godobeyer]

I said "probably". I don't know.

But I do know this: in societies where homosexuality is discriminated against, homosexuals are naturally going to try hiding their orientation as best they can. So when asked, they'll say the love women. They are likely to even have a wife with children. Perhaps they're even unaware, or in denial, of their orientation themselves. But they're still homosexual, and nothing's going to change that.

Therefore, even you don't know how many homosexuals, bisexuals, pansexuals, asexuals, etc. you've met.

you said "i'd bet " too

Not all opinions are created equal.

yes , created different .

there is no two persons in the world agree in everything in the world .

I understand that in many parts of Europe, Muslims are associated with gang activity and low-income neighborhoods.

why you did not said "some Muslims " instead of "Muslims " ?

 

[Riverwolf]

I agree .

if we play match the words , gays and lesbiens are not straight persons .

Hence why I try not to use the term "straight" anymore when referring to heterosexuality. It's a holdover from when homosexuality was not accepted in our culture (which remember was just a few decades ago), and is thus unfit for continued usage in that context.

you said "i'd bet " too

Colloquialism. I don't gamble for real. But the concept is the same: I don't know, because I haven't tossed the metaphorical dice yet, but I'm willing to make that bet because I'm sure they're are on my side.

yes , created different .

there is no two persons in the world agree in everything in the world .

Not what I mean.

Some opinions are more accurate to reality than others. In some peoples' opinions, Earth is flat.

why you did not said "some Muslims " instead of "Muslims " ?

Because associations are not inherent to the group itself.

It's non-Muslims who are associating Muslims with gang activity, despite the fact that not all Muslims, even the ones living in low-income neighborhoods, are actually involved in anything illegal. In fact, probably the majority of Muslims in Europe have no more to do with gang activity than anyone else.

In other words, just as the association of Muslims with gang activity in some parts of Europe is wrong and unfair, your culture's association of homosexual acts with gang activity is wrong and unfair. I make no distinction between the two discriminations.

 

[Godobeyer]

Hence why I try not to use the term "straight" anymore when referring to heterosexuality. It's a holdover from when homosexuality was not accepted in our culture (which remember was just a few decades ago), and is thus unfit for continued usage in that context.

straight is for hetero , and odd for homo , is not fair ?

Colloquialism. I don't gamble for real. But the concept is the same: I don't know, because I haven't tossed the metaphorical dice yet, but I'm willing to make that bet because I'm sure they're are on my side.

so you bet may wrong ?

Not what I mean.

Some opinions are more accurate to reality than others. In some peoples' opinions, Earth is flat.

Earth is not flat all long , it's had some montians and seas ..;etc

Because associations are not inherent to the group itself.

It's non-Muslims who are associating Muslims with gang activity, despite the fact that not all Muslims, even the ones living in low-income neighborhoods, are actually involved in anything illegal. In fact, probably the majority of Muslims in Europe have no more to do with gang activity than anyone else.

In other words, just as the association of Muslims with gang activity in some parts of Europe is wrong and unfair, your culture's association of homosexual acts with gang activity is wrong and unfair. I make no distinction between the two discriminations.

generalizing is not good in the end .

 

[YmirGF]

so you can't blame me or others that we saw gay as odd and rare .

It isn't so odd though, Godobeyer. You are literally surrounded by gay people whether you know it or not. Whether they would admit it or not.

if it's normal it's would and suppose to be more commun (not rare) .

Again, 1 in 10 human animals isn't especially rare. At current estimates that is 700 Million people.

so why some doctors suggest a treatement to homosexaulity .

This is largely due to their own neurosis. There are no serious practitioners, who are well regarded in the medical or psychiatric community that would condone such so-called "treatments".

Conversion therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

has already been discredited and is not looked at seriously and has been made illegal in some areas.

From your own Wiki article:

n 1998, the American Psychiatric Association issued a statement opposing any treatment which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality is a mental disorder or that a person should change their orientation, but did not have a formal position on other treatments that attempt to change a person's sexual orientation. In 2000, they augmented that statement by saying that as a general principle, a therapist should not determine the goal of treatment, but recommends that ethical practitioners refrain from attempts to change clients' sexual orientation until more research is available.[

Higher Risk of Mental Health Problems for Homosexuals | Psych Central

Due to cultural insensitivity, what else would you expect? Duh! I would expect these numbers to be on the decline however as homosexuality grows in general acceptance as a NORMAL form that sexuality takes.

Again, from the first paragraph of the article:

Homosexual people tend to experience more mental health problems than heterosexual people, research indicates. Discrimination may contribute to the higher risk, believes lead researcher Dr. Apu Chakraborty of University College London, UK.

 

[LuisDantas]

IS homosex feel shame and strange and rejected between his people ? I guess yes in most of situations .

It will depend a lot on who they deal with.