If Adam had not sinned.

[Heathen Hammer]

The difference between immortality and everlasting life is that the immortal one is always death proof or can't ever be destroyed.

I think that's just an unscriptural interpolation based more on modern memes

Mortal Adam was not offered immortality [life within himself], but everlasting life on earth meaning still dependent on exterior things like eating and drinking and breathing in order to go on living.

No offer of everlasting life is ever made to him. Unless you'd care to quote Hebrew scripture which says this? No Pauline theology please, he was merely expounding as any of us might.

The immortal need no food nor air but mortals do even if they are granted everlasting life on earth because of obedience to God.

Again, unscriptural modern ideas.

Sure the consequences are explained.
Please notice what God taught Adam at Genesis 2v17.
What is not clear about that verse?

Nothing about hereditary sin is ever mentioned. And the death spoken of in 2:17 is instant; of the day.

Eve understood because please notice how she answers the serpent at Genesis 3v2,3. What is not clear about that verse?

I am not unclear about what the verses say at all. Please note that in my previous statements I make it very clear that without prior knowledge of Good and Evil Eve did not understand that he disobedience was wrong, only that 'this is what I have been told'.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

The difference between immortality and everlasting life is that the immortal one is always death proof or can't ever be destroyed.

I think that's just an unscriptural interpolation based more on modern memes

Mortal Adam was not offered immortality [life within himself], but everlasting life on earth meaning still dependent on exterior things like eating and drinking and breathing in order to go on living.

No offer of everlasting life is ever made to him. Unless you'd care to quote Hebrew scripture which says this? No Pauline theology please, he was merely expounding as any of us might. God himself says 'live forever'.

The immortal need no food nor air but mortals do even if they are granted everlasting life on earth because of obedience to God.

Again, unscriptural modern ideas.

Sure the consequences are explained.
Please notice what God taught Adam at Genesis 2v17.
What is not clear about that verse?

Nothing about hereditary sin is ever mentioned. And the death spoken of in 2:17 is instant; of the day.

Eve understood because please notice how she answers the serpent at Genesis 3v2,3. What is not clear about that verse?

I am not unclear about what the verses say at all. Please note that in my previous statements I make it very clear that without prior knowledge of Good and Evil Eve did not understand that her disobedience was wrong, only that 'this is what I have been told'.

 

[waitasec]

And that makes Genesis a story.
You get out of it what you do, because of the way you think.

and what does this have to do with you being defeated in a debate?

 

[9Westy9]

Except for that one item...all good.

The tree of knowledge was a step up...as God did say...
'...they have become as us....'

The tree of life would also be a step up...spiritual life.
Know-how first....then we walk in heaven.

eh?

 

[Thief]

and what does this have to do with you being defeated in a debate?

Haven't been defeated....I'm doing just fine.

 

[Thief]

eh?

Yep...stepped in too late and you're lost.

 

[waitasec]

Haven't been defeated....I'm doing just fine.

which is why you changed the subject...

 

[Thief]

which is why you changed the subject...

We'll have to do it all over again.....

I'm ready...

 

[9Westy9]

Yep...stepped in too late and you're lost.

more confused as to why spiritual life couldn't be replaced with physical life

 

[Cordoba]

If Adam had not sinned, would he eventually have gone to heaven?

Adam could not have not sinned

God originally created him and his descendants to live on earth as His vicegerent (khalifa).

This is mentioned in the Qur'an:

And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority."

They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?"

Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." (2:30)

Human beings would later return to heaven if they followed God's Guidance

 

[Thief]

more confused as to why spiritual life couldn't be replaced with physical life

Do you mean...replace physical life with spiritual?

You're here in this life to learn all you can....then back to God you go.

You are an individual as your body can produce nothing else.

The question of this op does make an assumption.
To acquire knowledge of good and evil is sin....
and sin separates Man from God.

Such believe, is why people ask such question.
The question itself indicates a lack of understanding.

The first couple waked with God until they acquired knowledge?...really?

To walk with grace in heaven while not knowing, what is good, and what is evil?
Really?

God separated Himself from Man that we do indeed become individuals.
He's not going to hold your hand.

That comes later.

 

[Me Myself]

3 months for you!

3 months!

4 months!

If any mod here is wondering what´s he´s doing, he is actually telling peole how much chemotherapy they need to live.... based on what an angel tells him through an 8 ball... He said this BTW, made a whole thread about it somewhere...

Does it need be more obvious?

Who has the?

 

[Heathen Hammer]

No, that was Our Plan all along! 4 months!

10 months, unsuccessful, for you then.

 

[Cordoba]

There is an interesting hadith which tells of a conversation that takes place between Adam and Moses, peace be upon them both

Prophet Moses starts by blaming Adam for his sin which caused mankind to leave Heaven and descend to live a difficult life on earth.

Adam's response was to ask Moses if he had read The Torah, and when Moses said he had, Adam responded did you read in it that Adam sinned? Moses answered yes, and Adam asked him when was The Torah written?

Moses replied it was written 40 before Adam was created

So Adam's response was how can you blame me for something which was decreed and written in The Torah before I was created?

With this argument Adam won the debate

Adam was created with a free will and God knew he would sin, and it was His plan for Adam to leave Heaven and live on earth as God's vicegerent, then later return to Heaven after accomplishing his mission to populate the earth

 

[Cordoba]

This is the text of the hadith:

Reference: Sahih Muslim

Book 33, Number 6411:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:

There was an argument between Adam and Moses (peace be upon both of them) in the presence of their Lord. Adam came the better of Moses.

Moses said : Are you that Adam whom Allah created with His Hand and breathed into him His spirit, and commanded angels to fall in prostration before him and He made you live in Paradise with comfort and ease. Then you caused the people to get down to the earth because of your lapse.

Adam said: Are you that Moses whom Allah selected for His Messengership and for His conversation with Him and conferred upon you the tablets, in which everything was clearly explained and granted you the audience in order to have confidential talk with you. What is your opinion, how long Torah would have been written before I was created ?

Moses said: Forty years before.

Adam said: Did you not see these words: Adam committed an error and he was enticed to (do so).

He (Moses) said: Yes.

Whereupon, he (Adam) said: Do you then blame me for an act which Allah had ordained for me forty years before He created me ?

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said : This is how Adam came the better of Moses.

​

 

[sandy whitelinger]

If Adam had not sinned, would he eventually have gone to heaven?

Since God says that in some point in the future all of the elements will melt with a fervent heat (II Peter 3:1) and Adam is made out of elements it's not clear that his body was meant for an eternity on earth.

 

[Thief]

This is the text of the hadith:

Reference: Sahih Muslim

Book 33, Number 6411:

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying:

There was an argument between Adam and Moses (peace be upon both of them) in the presence of their Lord. Adam came the better of Moses.

Moses said : Are you that Adam whom Allah created with His Hand and breathed into him His spirit, and commanded angels to fall in prostration before him and He made you live in Paradise with comfort and ease. Then you caused the people to get down to the earth because of your lapse.

Adam said: Are you that Moses whom Allah selected for His Messengership and for His conversation with Him and conferred upon you the tablets, in which everything was clearly explained and granted you the audience in order to have confidential talk with you. What is your opinion, how long Torah would have been written before I was created ?

Moses said: Forty years before.

Adam said: Did you not see these words: Adam committed an error and he was enticed to (do so).

He (Moses) said: Yes.

Whereupon, he (Adam) said: Do you then blame me for an act which Allah had ordained for me forty years before He created me ?

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said : This is how Adam came the better of Moses.

​

And who wrote the Torah? forty years before Adam?
And Adam is the first Man....or the first Man to walk with God?

 

[Cordoba]

And who wrote the Torah? forty years before Adam?

God ordered The Torah to be written before He created Adam

Which means Adam could not have not sinned

God created him as His vicegerent on earth

 

[Jethro]

If Adam had not sinned, he would have remained in the Garden of Eden for all eternity. For as long as he was in the Garden of Eden, he was able to eat from the Tree of Life. And therefore, there would have been no need for him to go to heaven, for he was already in heaven on earth (paradise). However, God being omniscient, knew that Adam and Eve would sin, and thus heaven was essential, which is why Jesus was chosen to be the sacrificial Lamb before the Creation of the world (1 Peter 1:18-20), and even the Lamb slain from the Creation of the world (Rev. 13:8).

 

[Thief]

God ordered The Torah to be written before He created Adam

Which means Adam could not have not sinned

God created him as His vicegerent on earth

So?....who wrote the Torah?...forty years before Adam.

Was Adam the first man to walk the earth?
Or the first man to walk with God?

Either way.....someone walking around before Adam?