• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

If Christ wasn't the messiah, what was he?

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I've seen people who learned Kabala. Crazy.

Oh definitely! There's good reasons for all of our rules. There's a story that was posted here a while ago. Maybe, 4 months ago. An American Jew got into it, and then had a bit of a mental break down. Sounded serious, and from what I saw, he still doesn't seem OK. Luckily his parents had connections with a Rabbi to help him out of it. But the really crazy thing is, now this person is teaching to others even though they had a break down doing it. I'm like.... wha-wha-wha-WHAT?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
don't you call him Christ? isn't Christ short for Christian?
I believe I'm doing him a favor. as I don't believe that he was the messiah or God, I think he suffers when people call him in the name that reminds him what he did.

No, Christ is not short for Christian. :)

And, personally, as a Christ follower, I don't think he needs our favor :D but not an issue. :)
 

rubi

Member
Oh definitely! There's good reasons for all of our rules. There's a story that was posted here a while ago. Maybe, 4 months ago. An American Jew got into it, and then had a bit of a mental break down. Sounded serious, and from what I saw, he still doesn't seem OK. Luckily his parents had connections with a Rabbi to help him out of it. But the really crazy thing is, now this person is teaching to others even though they had a break down doing it. I'm like.... wha-wha-wha-WHAT?
It's so sad. I have tears in my eyes
 

rubi

Member
And, personally, as a Christ follower, I don't think he needs our favor :D but not an issue. :)
because you believe he is God. I don't. all I know about him is that he was a jew. so reminding him of what he did while he is in heaven, causes him a lot of sorrow. do you believe that he knew that he is the biological son of God?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
the conversation on youtube was except Isaiah 14:7 is there any phrase that shows that the Messiah is the son of God? The reason that I asked this was that I saw that the Christian bible translates wrong the word "העלמה" as "a virgin" and as "the young woman". the answer I got is that it is the only considerable source, which means there was a deception by the people who edited the New Testament which as far as understand were the Romans, and since we know how important it was for them to make Christ God, it makes sense how they would stop at nothing to perfect their ability to have control over the people.
Do I have this information correct?

The correct definition is "young woman". Do you have a place where young woman is used in the sense of married to a man?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
because you believe he is God. I don't. all I know about him is that he was a jew. so reminding him of what he did while he is in heaven, causes him a lot of sorrow. do you believe that he knew that he is the biological son of God?
LOL... OK. If that makes you happy. As I said, no offense is taken.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
think about it, two thousand years ago, Judaism was the only monotheist religion, in a very small part of the world. Then came Christianity under the Roman empire and the Romans spread monotheism, which brought some Arab guy named Muhammad and saw that he could tell everyone that he is a prophet (it took him a couple of years) and it would be unchallenged and he started to spread monotheism for the sake of power by the sword, like ISIS. until they did this only Jews were monotheists.
Look up Zoroastrianism and possibly others who are monotheists before Jews. An early monotheist who is not Jewish: Socrates. Greek! Hinduism independently has a concept of monotheism, also long before the Jews.

Monotheism is not efficiently spread by prophets or kings. They are lucky to get anything done without getting themselves killed. There is a famous monotheist pharoah at the end of the first Egyptian Dynasty. He proclaims himself prophet, turns against his national religion and tries to live peacefully with his family as an example to all, opposing war until the end of his days. Unfortunately for monotheism he is assassinated and also his heir, and one of his generals begins a brand new 2nd dynasty of polytheism.

Islam tends to conquer lands that are already monotheist. How is that spreading monotheism? Muhammad first appears in the Quran; but whether he writes it or some caliph does I cannot tell you. Apparently after his time the leaders of Islam cannot agree upon who is to be in charge, and the whole of Islam divides. How does this even count as monotheism if they are divided over who to follow? The same question can be put to Christians who have various divisions.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
no, we don't. Jews who live in their own environment preserve their customs. christianity took our religion and modified it. so, now Christians throw Jewish terms but it makes no sense and the only reason it makes sense to them is because it was replayed to them so many times. for example the"human sacrifice" Christ is doing on a daily basis. It literally makes no sense. OMG, my head hurts when I hear about it.

And of course, things you do as part of your religion make no sense to those on the outside either. And again, like most people, you're part of the religion you were raised in.
 

rubi

Member
Look up Zoroastrianism and possibly others who are monotheists before Jews. An early monotheist who is not Jewish: Socrates. Greek! Hinduism independently has a concept of monotheism, also long before the Jews.

Monotheism is not efficiently spread by prophets or kings. They are lucky to get anything done without getting themselves killed. There is a famous monotheist pharoah at the end of the first Egyptian Dynasty. He proclaims himself prophet, turns against his national religion and tries to live peacefully with his family as an example to all, opposing war until the end of his days. Unfortunately for monotheism he is assassinated and also his heir, and one of his generals begins a brand new 2nd dynasty of polytheism.

Islam tends to conquer lands that are already monotheist. How is that spreading monotheism? Muhammad first appears in the Quran; but whether he writes it or some caliph does I cannot tell you. Apparently after his time the leaders of Islam cannot agree upon who is to be in charge, and the whole of Islam divides. How does this even count as monotheism if they are divided over who to follow? The same question can be put to Christians who have various divisions.
monotheism is believing in one god and also believing there is no other God but him. Of course that an idol worshiper believes in a specific god, but he also believes there other powerful gods. this is not monotheism. I guess God wanted a religion that would make a certain preparation for convincing in his existence. so, he chose to build 2 big religions from zero and they will discuss between them.
 

rubi

Member
And of course, things you do as part of your religion make no sense to those on the outside either. And again, like most people, you're part of the religion you were raised in.
of course, people from outside wouldn't understand why we are doing a lot of what we do. but you are missing the point. christianity is built on top of Judaism. there are things that Christians say that are totally in contradiction with the basis it stands on. the example that I gave was the "human sacrifice" of Christ.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
because you believe he is God. I don't. all I know about him is that he was a jew. so reminding him of what he did while he is in heaven, causes him a lot of sorrow. do you believe that he knew that he is the biological son of God?
Biological son? Was Adam a biological son?
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
of course, people from outside wouldn't understand why we are doing a lot of what we do. but you are missing the point. christianity is built on top of Judaism. there are things that Christians say that are totally in contradiction with the basis it stands on. the example that I gave was the "human sacrifice" of Christ.

I understand there are things in Christianity you don't think make sense from a Jewish perspective. There are things about Judaism that make no sense to me. I was replying to your comment that Christians are Christian because they're raised that way, when the same is true for you.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
tell me, what do you think about my conclusion that if you don't speak Hebrew, it is impossible for one to know that christ isn't God or the Messiah?
It has some application. However, since much of the NT was written by Jewish people, it can be self explanatory. Knowing Jewish customs can also help understanding. There are enough helps today to overcome the hurdle though knowing ancient Hebrew would help
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
also, I think that the main ideological difference between Christianity and Judaism is whether the redemption is general to the whole nature or is it for the believer alone.
I believe it is for the whole nature, it is both general to all and yet very personal. Maybe much like the Passover... for all yet very personal.

EDITED
 
Last edited:

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I really try to empathize with other religions, especially those which are very similar to mine.

I imagine what it may sound to Jews, whenever a Christian says that Jesus is God.
I have never thought of Jesus as someone different than God. Or God as someone different than Jesus.

According to a historical perspective, historians will tell you there were countless Jewish rabbis or leaders who were called Messiah, in that period. He was just one of many.
 
Last edited:
Top