If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[godnotgod]

Okay. And when do you experience this feeling?

Now.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Now.

Constantly?

 

[godnotgod]

Constantly?

No, I wish. It is a matter of degree. Some are there all the time, but not many. However, there is no doubt as to its reality.

Most of mankind is living in the duality between Relative Joy and Relative Suffering, the outcomes of the pursuits of Security, Power, and Sensation on the Third Level of Consciousness. Absolute Joy is transcendent of both. There is no Absolute Suffering, as in Christianity. Not sure about Islam. Perhaps there is Absolute Joy in your mystical tradition, Sufism. In Zen it is called Satori:


Satori

"This is the word used in Zen teaching to designate the promise or payoff of Self-realization, of finding the answer to the question "Who am I?" Synonyms include self-definition, awakening to our Inner Self, sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi, and becoming the Truth. It's often confused, though, with the lesser amazement of the "aha!" experience, when after great tension and bewilderment something becomes perfectly clear to us.

Every one of us lives in the expectation of eventually finding perfect happiness [Absolute Joy] (the truth of which took me some time to accept), and we believe that some modification either of the outside world or within ourselves is the key that will unlock the door to this lost paradise. The truth, according to Benoit and to Zen, is that this paradise is not something past or future but has always been our state and is our eternal being. But something keeps us from becoming aware of it. Becoming conscious of that state is not something that will be available to us in the future but is offered to us from this moment, at every moment."

Hubert Benoit, Zen and the Transformation of Consciousness, The Supreme Doctrine

http://www.selfdiscoveryportal.com/bzrecap.htm

 

[The_Fisher_King]

No, I wish. It is a matter of degree.

Why do you wish?

Perhaps there is Absolute Joy in your mystical tradition, Sufism.

The Sufi greats do indeed talk of such a thing.

 

[godnotgod]

Why do you wish?



The Sufi greats do indeed talk of such a thing.

One can never forget even a single taste of divine nectar. All else pales in comparison.

What do the Sufi greats call it?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

One can never forget even a single taste of divine nectar. All else pales in comparison.

But if all is God, both those feeling Absolute Joy and those not, those feelings of Absolute Joy and those of despair, misery, etc. (and every feeling in between), those who have realised that they are enlightened and those who haven't, those who see the way things really are and those who don't, etc. etc., what does it matter anyway?

What do the Sufi greats call it?

Absolute, Indescribable, Perfect Love. Bliss. Ecstasy. That kind of thing.

 

[godnotgod]

But if all is God, both those feeling Absolute Joy and those not, those feelings of Absolute Joy and those of despair, misery, etc. (and every feeling in between), those who have realised that they are enlightened and those who haven't, those who see the way things really are and those who don't, etc. etc., what does it matter anyway?



Absolute, Indescribable, Perfect Love. Bliss. Ecstasy. That kind of thing.

It is the same Reality.

When you are happy, do you naturally want others to be happy as well?

When you see others in misery, do you want to do something to help alleviate their misery?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

It is the same Reality.

When you are happy, do you naturally want others to be happy as well?

When you see others in misery, do you want to do something to help alleviate their misery?

One could argue that these are still forms of attachment to the notion of duality. That if one really sees things the way they are, one should just let go, just let all things be. Come what may. (I do not personally hold to this view, but then I have a pretty dualistic way of seeing Reality).

 

[atanu]

It seems to me that,
Indian-Asiatic 'god'-laden religions have one thing in common,
they seem to realize that there is a Nirvana or Brahman,
in the endless Cosmos, but no cognition.
Ahhhhhh.......but could I be there !
~
'mud

I can rarely comprehend you, if I comprehend you at all. What I cannot comprehend now is which Hindu teacher says "There is Brahman, but no cognition"?

 

[`mud]

Indian-Asiatic... religions...seem to realize that there is a Nirvana or Brahman,
endless Cosmos(from here to forever), (we won't exist any longer),
no cognition !
~
They seem to believe that 'forever', (Brahman)
and Nirvana will become one, but no cognition,
there's no angels in their dreams.
nuffstuff
~
'mud

 

[atanu]

Indian-Asiatic... religions...seem to realize that there is a Nirvana or Brahman,
endless Cosmos(from here to forever), (we won't exist any longer),
no cognition !
~
They seem to believe that 'forever', (Brahman)
and Nirvana will become one, but no cognition,
there's no angels in their dreams.
nuffstuff
~
'mud

But Hindus believe that Brahman is the very centre of cognition ... In us too.

 

[Runewolf1973]

One could argue that these are still forms of attachment to the notion of duality. That if one really sees things the way they are, one should just let go, just let all things be. Come what may. (I do not personally hold to this view, but then I have a pretty dualistic way of seeing Reality).

I agree, they are all forms of attachment. The universe as a whole is unsympathetic and neutral. Absolute Joy is a concept, nothing more. Freedom from suffering is brought about by change. Either a change in that which is causing the suffering, or a change in the way in which one percieves the suffering. There is always a trade-off with everything. The trade off with being human and to know joy or happiness is to also know pain and sufferring. It is comforting to know that suffering is impermanent, but so are all things. We must learn to let go of everything.

 

[godnotgod]

One could argue that these are still forms of attachment to the notion of duality. That if one really sees things the way they are, one should just let go, just let all things be. Come what may. (I do not personally hold to this view, but then I have a pretty dualistic way of seeing Reality).

Being attached to duality and seeing duality for what it is are two different things. If you are attached to the dual world, you are subject to swings of relative joy and relative suffering. You would fail to understand the nature of what is causing these states. But if you have transcended these dualities, (ie; Absolute Joy) you still are aware of them, but are no longer attached to them. You 'see things as they are', as you said, but just watch them come and go. But others are still caught in the tangle of Identification who suffer, and because of your compassion, not only wish to come to their aid, but are capable of doing so, without becoming entangled in their duality. This is sometimes referred to as 'actionless activity'.

In the Zen temples, there are the Four Great Vows chanted daily:

The Four Great Vows

Beings are numberless; I vow to save them.
Delusions are inexhaustible; I vow to end them.
Dharma gates are boundless; I vow to enter them.
Buddha’s Way is unsurpassable; I vow to become it.


To say that 'I have a pretty dualistic way of seeing Reality' means that you are unwittingly doing so from a non-dual position. You can only know what is dual via knowing what is non-dual.

Seeing things as they are is to see them in no particular way; it is to simply see them as they are.

 

[godnotgod]

I agree, they are all forms of attachment. The universe as a whole is unsympathetic and neutral. Absolute Joy is a concept, nothing more. Freedom from suffering is brought about by change. Either a change in that which is causing the suffering, or a change in way in which one percieves the suffering. There is always a trade-off with everything. The trade off with being human and to know joy or happiness is to also know pain and sufferring. It is comforting to know that suffering is impermanent, but so are all things.

The impetus for change from the duality of relative joy/suffering to that of freedom is Absolute Joy.

There is a field against which relative joy and suffering occur. That field is Absolute Joy, but because our attention is caught by the noise and action of the foreground of life, we are unaware of this field, or background, like the fish whose attention is caught by the foreground of predators and food, and is unaware that he is in the sea. Relative joy/suffering are conditional, the outcomes of life driven by desire; Absolute Joy is the true Reality, uncaused, unborn, unconditioned.

The trade-off you mention which is impermanence and effervescence is what the Buddha became aware of, which is why he embarked upon the path that he did, culminating in his Supreme Enlightenment, which is beyond such impermanence and effervescence, that is to say, beyond the appearances of this world.

 

[godnotgod]

Indian-Asiatic... religions...seem to realize that there is a Nirvana or Brahman,
endless Cosmos(from here to forever), (we won't exist any longer),
no cognition !
~
They seem to believe that 'forever', (Brahman)
and Nirvana will become one, but no cognition,
there's no angels in their dreams.
nuffstuff
~
'mud

Nirvana is the dissolution of the illusory temporal self, but not the end of our true nature, which is consciousness. It is not 'my' consciousness, but universal consciousness to which an awakening occurs. This universal consciousness is already the case, not something that 'becomes', just as the TV signal is already present prior to your turning on the TV set, and present after it is turned off. Like the TV, you are not the source of the signal, but the receptor. However, unlike the TV, you sculpt the signal into an individual consciousness you then call 'I'.

Brahman is cognition itself, and you are it.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I agree, they are all forms of attachment. The universe as a whole is unsympathetic and neutral.

Being unsympathetic is not being neutral....

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Indian-Asiatic... religions...seem to realize that there is a Nirvana or Brahman,
endless Cosmos(from here to forever), (we won't exist any longer),
no cognition !

Why not?

 

[gnostic]

Personally, I think people believing in Consciousness, existing outside of brains and minds, is simply wishful thinking.

There are no real basis or evidences to support this transcendent consciousness, ultimate consciousnesses or perfect consciousness or whatever you want to call it.

Attaching words prefixing consciousness, like "ultimate", "absolute", "perfect" or "transcendent", as if it mean something more than it is really is, is nothing more than pointless sophistry or wishful fantasy.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Personally, I think people believing in Consciousness, existing outside of brains and minds, is simply wishful thinking.

There are no real basis or evidences to support this transcendent consciousness, ultimate consciousnesses or perfect consciousness or whatever you want to call it.

Attaching words prefixing consciousness, like "ultimate", "absolute", "perfect" or "transcendent", as if it mean something more than it is really is, is nothing more than pointless sophistry or wishful fantasy.

I guess the consciousness of the cells in your body may likewise not be aware that there is consciousness outside of themselves....the very idea of having being in a greater being would seem preposterous... like father like son..

 

[Runewolf1973]

Being unsympathetic is not being neutral....

It can be.