If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[Rick O'Shez]

Yes, just realize that the conceptual is nothing more than the conceptual...that the illusion is nothing more than an illusion. No need to banish it all in some nihilistic fashion. One can still find uselfulness in duality, just realize it for what it is. That is freedom from delusion.

I think most of what has been said in this thread about "non-duality" is pretentious tripe, best ignored.
It's actually a very practical thing, there is no need to surround it with a load of mystical woo and pretentious jargon. Unfortunately some posters cannot communicate WITHOUT using a load of mystical woo and pretentious jargon!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Science is useless. Meditation is useless. It amounts to Nihilism.

Eh? Both science and meditation are about trying to see things as really are, even when that process reveals uncomfortable truths. You could say that meditation is a "science of the mind".

I don't see what "nihilism" has to do with it. What meditation DOES involve is developing self-awareness and self-honestly, recognising what is wishful thinking, unfounded belief, confirmation bias, fantasy, clutching at metaphysical straws etc.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Can we use phrases such as "I believe..." or "My teacher teaches ....". Else it seems that what you say is the only concept free truth.

This is ALL conceptual. That is all it can be is conceptual. If you want truth, you must realize it for yourself because that is something I cannot possibly put into words.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Can we use phrases such as "I believe..." or "My teacher teaches ....".

I do wish you would tell that to our two snake-oil sellers. They dress up belief as truth in every post, and continually make stuff up to make their dubious "product" look more convincing. It doesn't work of course, their dishonesty and childish games are really very transparent.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I do wish you would tell that to our two snake-oil sellers, they dress up belief as truth in every post.

There are only false beliefs, false labels and false prophets. Even The Buddha could not speak the truth, he could only allude to it.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There are only false beliefs, false labels and false prophets. Even The Buddha could not speak the truth, he could only allude to it.

It's really about methodology, ways of seeing more clearly. It's actually very practical, and doesn't need to be dressed up with a load of woo. Unfortunately the woo is knee-deep in this thread. You begin to hope that it has all come out and then there is some more! Maybe we could request a pump-out.

 

[atanu]

There are only false beliefs, false labels and false prophets. Even The Buddha could not speak the truth, he could only allude to it.

To claim that you need to know the truth.

 

[godnotgod]

This is ALL conceptual. That is all it can be is conceptual. If you want truth, you must realize it for yourself because that is something I cannot possibly put into words.

What do you think is the meaning of the following from the mouth of the Third Zen Patriarch, which goes against conventional wisdom:

"Do not seek the truth; only cease to cherish opinion"

Hsin Hsin Ming
Third Patriarch of Zen
Verses on the Faith Mind

 

[godnotgod]

I do wish you would tell that to our two snake-oil sellers. They dress up belief as truth in every post, and continually make stuff up to make their dubious "product" look more convincing. It doesn't work of course, their dishonesty and childish games are really very transparent.

The only childish game here is the one playing as Wise Old Grumpy Grampa.....or maybe Mr. Potato Head

 

[Runewolf1973]

What do you think is the meaning of the following from the mouth of the Third Zen Patriarch, which goes against conventional wisdom:

"Do not seek the truth; only cease to cherish opinion"

Hsin Hsin Ming
Third Patriarch of Zen
Verses on the Faith Mind

Cherishing one's opinion is like holding onto a false belief. Once one lets go of those false beliefs or opinions (concepts), truth is revealed by default. No need to seek it out.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Cherishing one's opinion is like holding onto a false belief. Once one lets go of those false beliefs or opinions (concepts), truth is revealed by default. No need to seek it out.

Very true and religious beliefs like God, Brahman, "cosmic consciousness", "nothingness" and "ultimate reality" really do need to be let go of. Such beliefs are are like the tint on a pair of spectacles, people can't cope with the glare of reality, but of course the tints obscure their vision. The stronger the beliefs, the stronger the tint, the less clearly one can see.

 

[Runewolf1973]

You're a good man, RW. Time for you to take a refreshing break. Go ahead. Take Five. You deserve it.

While I obviously disagree with your theory, I admire your tenacity.

Btw, this theory of mine is just another concept. It may be useful in some way and even accurate in some way or in some context, but truth it is not.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Btw, this theory of mine is just another concept.

But it is at least based on direct observation, not on wishful thinking, blind belief or just making stuff up.
It has the added advantage of being clearly communicated in plain language, rather than relying on a load of woo and meaningless jargon.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Cherishing one's opinion is like holding onto a false belief. Once one lets go of those false beliefs or opinions (concepts), truth is revealed by default. No need to seek it out.

All beliefs are false in the light of non-duality....to set up what you think is true against that which you think is false is a disease of the mind...

 

[ak.yonathan]

Very true and religious beliefs like God, Brahman, "cosmic consciousness", "nothingness" and "ultimate reality" really do need to be let go of. Such beliefs are are like the tint on a pair of spectacles, people can't cope with the glare of reality, but of course the tints obscure their vision. The stronger the beliefs, the stronger the tint, the less clearly one can see.

How do you know that those beliefs are because people can't cope with reality? Are you saying that they are in denial? Are they rejecting something simply on the basis that they don't like it?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

How do you know that those beliefs are because people can't cope with reality? Are you saying that they are in denial? Are they rejecting something simply on the basis that they don't like it?

As my old headmaster used to say: "If the cap fits, wear it."

People should examine their beliefs closely and honestly, and see what is really behind them.

I sometimes wonder what people are really seeking. Is it truth, or merely comfort?

 

[ak.yonathan]

As my old headmaster used to say: "If the cap fits, wear it."

Examine your own beliefs closely and honestly, and see what you find behind them.

You didn't answer my questions. As far as I can tell you're simply making baseless assertions.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You didn't answer my questions. As far as I can tell you're simply making baseless assertions.

It is what I have observed over a long period of time. But it is something for you to examine. Can you look closely and honestly at your own beliefs and see what is behind them?

But yes, I do think a lot of people live in denial, they really can't cope with the glare of reality and cling to comforting beliefs, they clutch at metaphysical straws.

I do understand why this happens, human existence is brief, fragile and uncertain and people look for coping mechanisms.

 

[ak.yonathan]

It is what I have observed over a long period of time. But it is something for you to examine. Can you look closely and honestly at your own beliefs and see what is behind them?

But yes, I do think a lot of people live in denial, they really can't cope with the glare of reality and cling to comforting beliefs, they clutch at metaphysical straws.

I honestly can't see what are behind my beliefs. If you say that they are in denial, then what exactly are they denying? Are they refusing to believe in something that has been proven to be true? Remember, just because a belief is comforting doesn't mean that it is just wishful thinking.

 

[godnotgod]

Cherishing one's opinion is like holding onto a false belief. Once one lets go of those false beliefs or opinions (concepts), truth is revealed by default. No need to seek it out.

Exactly. Most people think that 'truth' is something arrived at via accumulation of information., but here the Third Zen Patriarch is saying to subtract opinion instead.