If "everything is energy" then what does this mean?

[Runewolf1973]

What I said...

Yah, I didn't actually see what you had said before I posted that. I just kinda responded in my own words.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

That field is not really what I would call a deeper level, it is everywhere, all around. It simply goes unrealized, unnoticed. Is it on the other side of the river? No. Is it beneath the river? No.

The thing is that we can't SEE atoms and quarks and unified fields and such, we see trees and birds and rivers and stuff. So it's about the way we see trees, birds and rivers.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The thing is that we can't SEE atoms and quarks and unified fields and such, we see trees and birds and rivers and stuff. So it's about the way we see trees, birds and rivers.

Yes, we are like blind men searching for light.

 

[Runewolf1973]

(seems Runewolf has attained Supreme Enlightenment overnight...just sayin')

I resent that. I attained no such thing.

 

[godnotgod]

I resent that. I attained no such thing.

Really?....could've sworn....hmph...oh well...

 

[Ben Dhyan]

About 10 years with this lot: http://www.coiuk.org/

I used to lead mindfulness practice days for the local sangha.

My that's a coincidence....Spiny Norman used to talk about Thich Nhat Hanh...and it turns out you too were a student of him....it's a small world...

 

[atanu]

I agree. There can be changes of perception, seeing things in a different way, but we are always limited to the input from our physical senses, we can only see within the visible spectrum for example. So we are still working with the same input to the senses but understanding it in a different way, perhaps seeing connection instead of separateness, or transience instead of permanence.

There are all sorts of religious beliefs about something "beneath" or "beyond" the world that we actually observe, but I really don't see any evidence to support those beliefs. It mostly looks like wishful thinking to me, people need/want there to be something more.

So, what is basis of your gnosis .. if I call it like mud calls it? Your gnosis articulated above has, I understand, no foundation as per your own claim.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Your gnosis articulated above has, I understand, no foundation as per your own claim.

My "foundation" is long experience, observation and practice.

If you disagree with specific points I have made then explain why. I assume you're not claiming that mystics can see atoms and quarks? And if you believe there is something mystical beyond the natural world that we observe, then let's see some evidence for it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I resent that. I attained no such thing.

Why is it taking so long, I wonder?

 

[atanu]

My "foundation" is long experience, observation and practice.

If you disagree with specific points I have made then explain why. I assume you're not claiming that mystics can see atoms and quarks? And if you believe there is something mystical beyond the natural world that we observe, then let's see some evidence for it.

It actually amazes me when one says I have meditated for 30 years and yet says that our gnosis is limited to knowledge provided by and of senses.

The perceiver of all changes lies beneath the mind-senses.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is a limit to the information that the senses can provide. The rest of the distance has to be covered by discrimination (Viveka).

 

[atanu]

I agree. There can be changes of perception, seeing things in a different way, but we are always limited to the input from our physical senses, we can only see within the visible spectrum for example. So we are still working with the same input to the senses but understanding it in a different way, perhaps seeing connection instead of separateness, or transience instead of permanence.

There are all sorts of religious beliefs about something "beneath" or "beyond" the world that we actually observe, but I really don't see any evidence to support those beliefs. It mostly looks like wishful thinking to me, people need/want there to be something more.

Kindly limit your statements to yourself only and please do not generalise, as you yourself claim that your experience is limited to sensual inputs.

In our living experience itself, we have experience of our consciousness taking up waking, dreaming, and sleeping forms. Folks like you persistently impose the waking state observations on the dream and sleep state consciousnesses.

Then there has to be the consciousness that observes all these three states, else Atanu would not wake up as Atanu.

Kindly realise the witness consciousness that is aware of sleep.

So, what is basis of your gnosis .. if I call it like mud calls it? Your gnosis articulated above has, I understand, no foundation as per your own claim.

I asked "If changing sensual perceptions are all there is then what is the foundation of your gnosis?"

My "foundation" is long experience, observation and practice.

So there is indeed a foundation for your sensual experiences. No? You did meditation for 35 years, your senses did not do that.

 

[godnotgod]

And if you believe there is something mystical beyond the natural world that we observe, then let's see some evidence for it.

What are you talking about? Who said the mystical is beyond the natural world? Is that what you've been thinking all these years? The mystical experience is simply divine union, in which that which is seen as The Ordinary and that which is seen as The Miraculous, are one and the same. THAT is the powerful transformation of consciousness that occurs during the spiritual experience, wherein limited self-view is transformed into a universal one. This is also the experience in Hinduism, wherein the jiva 'becomes' Brahman.

"The spirituality found in Zen is not to think about God while peeling the potatoes, but simply to peel the potatoes"
Alan Watts

 

[godnotgod]

Just want to say that I am happy to see atanu and Aupmanyav providing their input from an Eastern POV on these forums. Thank you! You provide a much needed dimension otherwise missing from them.

 

[godnotgod]

Why is it taking so long, I wonder?

"Realization is getting rid of the delusion that you haven't realized."
Ramana Maharshi

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The perceiver of all changes lies beneath the mind-senses.

You are describing religious beliefs and assumptions here, not facts. Please do not generalise.

As I said before, if you believe there is something mystical beyond the natural world that we observe, then provide some evidence for it.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What are you talking about? Who said the mystical is beyond the natural world?

So you are now saying there is ONLY the natural world? No "cosmic consciousness" and all that other stuff you keep talking about?

Interesting how you keep moving the goalposts, I guess that's a new-age thing. You are always ducking and diving, changing your position, first pretending to be one thing, then another.

Interesting how evade searching questions by continually changing the jargon you use. One minute it's "universal consciousness", next minute it's "cosmic consciousness", next minute it's the "divine", next minute it's just "miraculous". But of course these jargon buzz-words are deliberately vague, words for you to hide behind. It's very tiresome indeed.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There is a limit to the information that the senses can provide. The rest of the distance has to be covered by discrimination (Viveka).

I would say it's prajna, wisdom, processing sensory input in a new way.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Then there has to be the consciousness that observes all these three states, else Atanu would not wake up as Atanu.

Of course, before we sleep, during the sleep and after the sleep, we have the same brain. So Atanu will not wake up as Aupmanyav. That is self-evident. During sleep a part of our consciousness/a part of our brain signs off-duty while a part of it is still on guard. What is not understandable in this process? What is this witness talk? Mixing esoterics/mysticism/occult here?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Of course, before we sleep, during the sleep and after the sleep, we have the same brain. So Atanu will not wake up as Aupmanyav. That is self-evident.

That's just the function of memory. When we first wake from sleep there can be a "Who? What? Where?" period, then the memories flood in and we remember who and where we are. Nothing mystical going on here.