If I am not a sinner, do I need a savior?

[Alceste]

With what? Your own self-deception? Moreover, when you make a claim to accuss the Bible of saying something, it is you who should present the exact verses, not others. It is called logic in a debate. You are incapable of even doing this correctly.

When you say that "I am not a sinner", it doesn't make much sense (perhaps it only makes sense to you with your self-deception), as such a claim requires a judgment from God to be sure about.

If your god judges you and finds you wanting, you need a better god.

Here's your stumper: Can God make a hoagie so vast he can't eat it all in one sitting?

Yes or no.

 

[Alceste]

I for one, am not a 'sinner'.

Whatever it is that only sinners specifically need?,
I am not in need of.

That's pretty much how I feel. I'm much better suited to philosophical Taoism.

 

[Pegg]

I asked this on another thread and it seems to have stumped the "theologian". I wondered if any other Christian would like to have a go.

So, do I? I don't want to hear any tedious, irrelevant Kirk Cameronisms here ("have you ever been a speeder, have you ever littered, have you ever burned ants with a magnifying glass, have you ever masturbated", etc). If you think it is impossible for me to be free from sin, just treat the question as a hypothetical. Imagine a person who has never done any of the things you think are "sins" and tell me if they need saving. Yes or no, and why.

if you were sinless, then no, you'd need no savior

but if you were sinless, you would not die....so im guessing that even if you never deliberately sinned, you'd still have inherited death from our forefather Adam. The only way to be freed from that is to have a savior.

 

[Alceste]

if you were sinless, then no, you'd need no savior

but if you were sinless, you would not die....so im guessing that even if you never deliberately sinned, you'd still have inherited death from our forefather Adam. The only way to be freed from that is to have a savior.

What's wrong with dying?

 

[blackout]

if you were sinless, then no, you'd need no savior

but if you were sinless, you would not die....so im guessing that even if you never deliberately sinned, you'd still have inherited death from our forefather Adam. The only way to be freed from that is to have a savior.

:dracula::bat:

 

[Alceste]

:dracula::bat:

I've been staring at this for ages trying to work out what's going on there. Lol. Now I see it's two emoticons, not one.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

With what? Your own self-deception? Moreover, when you make a claim to accuss the Bible of saying something, it is you who should present the exact verses, not others. It is called logic in a debate. You are incapable of even doing this correctly.

i dont remember the OP even discussing the bible.
a question was asked to a "theologian" and the answer received was not satisfying, hence it was turned on us for discussion. no accusations.

I've been staring at this for ages trying to work out what's going on there. Lol. Now I see it's two emoticons, not one.

so glad i'm not the only one.

 

[blackout]

:dracula::bat:

I've been staring at this for ages trying to work out what's going on there. Lol. Now I see it's two emoticons, not one.

LOL. The Vampires, were my response to ...

if you were sinless, then no, you'd need no savior

but if you were sinless, you would not die....so im guessing that even if you never deliberately sinned, you'd still have inherited death from our forefather Adam. The only way to be freed from that is to have a savior.

Living forever and all.

 

[Pegg]

What's wrong with dying?

I have an aversion to it

 

[notthedalaidrama]

we are all sinless! why go along with something which has no foundations in reality?! a book written way back by men who, in my opinion want to make sure as many people suffer(mentally, emotionally and spiritually); and who as a trump card claim the words are straight from g_d! I have seen so many people get screwed up because they follow a certain religion, and they live their lives like cattle going to slaughter! OK people find themselves needing to believe in something, they seek answers to why they are here, what is the purpose of life and so forth; fair enough, as I ask these questions too! And yes when I was younger I too became a christian, but I could not accept what was being taught and the many discrepencies in the bible, I survived eighteen months before finally seeing the Light and leaving the faith altogether.
I know for a fact, because of my experiences that when this body expires, that life continues. I have experienced the beyond and no there is no such place as hell! The Spirit World is a beautiful place, vibrant and alive, makes this world appear dull by comparison!
So when my time comes I shall go with a big smile on my face! And those left behind will have a celebration of my life, and attend my funeral in any color other than black! We have been so conditioned by religions about how we should live life and what we must expect when death comes, and yet none of their afterlife experiences are based on proof! No one person can say for definite what happens at death, yes I can offer my experience but I have no proof to give you; only my word. Ultimately we shall experience the Truth when our time calls us away from here!

Namaste,

Lenny
without the Sun we'd be..........!!!

 

[Alceste]

Thanks for your thoughts, Lenny.

 

[Alceste]

I have an aversion to it

Fair enough, but every living thing does it eventually, so it can't be that bad.

 

[Zardoz]

This is correct....
But would you expound on the application?

After all...standing in God's presence...and no one will raise objection?

The gates of repentance are always open, and none may object to a true penitent heart. How does one know if the repentance is true? If the same circumstance is encountered, one remembers the Torah, and acts rightly.

And the 'person' of intervention would be able?...more so than you?

I pray for others, as is my way, but all who pray for others do so to intervene and bless, would you not say?

 

[Zardoz]

Guys who fall for dysfunctional women hoping to fix them. I was joking, but there's something sweet about a man who wants to be a knight in shining armor. Well, it's sweet when anyone wants to be, but my original comment was directed toward men.

Ah, I see. Yes, I am my wife's knight and she saved me from a life without purpose or joy. We are indeed each other's savior, in that meaning.

 

[Pegg]

Fair enough, but every living thing does it eventually, so it can't be that bad.

try opening the calendar and choosing a day to die

I always find it funny that every christian wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die to get there

 

[Alceste]

try opening the calendar and choosing a day to die

I always find it funny that every christian wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die to get there

That is funny.

I have to admit, I often wonder why the folks who believe in a perfect afterlife don't just stampede over a cliff like lemmings in their eagerness to get there. I read that as wavering conviction.

 

[Songbird]

Ah, I see. Yes, I am my wife's knight and she saved me from a life without purpose or joy. We are indeed each other's savior, in that meaning.

Aw, that's incredibly sweet! :yes:

 

[Katzpur]

I have to admit, I often wonder why the folks who believe in a perfect afterlife don't just stampede over a cliff like lemmings in their eagerness to get there. I read that as wavering conviction.

Probably most people who believe in a perfect afterlife also believe there are negative consequences for suicide.

 

[Katzpur]

if you were sinless, then no, you'd need no savior

but if you were sinless, you would not die....so im guessing that even if you never deliberately sinned, you'd still have inherited death from our forefather Adam. The only way to be freed from that is to have a savior.

You lost me, Pegg. Hypothetically speaking, if a person were never to commit a deliberate sin, would he live forever, or would he die anyway, since Adam sinned?

 

[Alceste]

Probably most people who believe in a perfect afterlife also believe there are negative consequences for suicide.

Ah! I see! I wonder which came first - the observation that believers in an afterlife are just as reluctant to die as anyone else, or the religious taboos against suicide. Unanswerable question, I suppose.