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If I am not a sinner, do I need a savior?

Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Alceste said:
That is funny. :)

I have to admit, I often wonder why the folks who believe in a perfect afterlife don't just stampede over a cliff like lemmings in their eagerness to get there. I read that as wavering conviction. ;)
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yeah i think your right

our natural inclination is to live right here...no amount of talk of a better place is going to change our internal desire for life on earth

I think this scripture sums up perfectly our natural inclination
Ecclesiastes 3:10 I have seen the occupation that God has given to the sons of mankind in which to be occupied. 11 Everything he has made pretty in its time. Even time indefinite he has put in their heart..."



 
Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Katzpur said:
You lost me, Pegg. Hypothetically speaking, if a person were never to commit a deliberate sin, would he live forever, or would he die anyway, since Adam sinned?
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we are Adams offspring, so we will die whether we deliberately sin or not is what i mean to say.

If you think about the man Job in the bible, it was said of him that he did not sin but was perfect and upright...yet the man still died. He died because he is an offspring of Adam. We inherit 'Adamic' sin and death.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
40creek said:
To the original post question. No you don't
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I thought not, and I appreciate the honest answer. :) It seems many will try to find a way to argue I still need to become a Christian (for my own good, mind you) despite the fact I know in my heart I am not a sinner, need no salvation and don't wish for eternal life.
 
Danmac

Danmac

Well-Known Member
Alceste said:
I asked this on another thread and it seems to have stumped the "theologian". I wondered if any other Christian would like to have a go.

So, do I? I don't want to hear any tedious, irrelevant Kirk Cameronisms here ("have you ever been a speeder, have you ever littered, have you ever burned ants with a magnifying glass, have you ever masturbated", etc). If you think it is impossible for me to be free from sin, just treat the question as a hypothetical. Imagine a person who has never done any of the things you think are "sins" and tell me if they need saving. Yes or no, and why.
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A person that is sinless would not need a savior. Jesus was sinless and he didn't need one. Well you and Jesus that is.:)
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Pegg said:
try opening the calendar and choosing a day to die :p

I always find it funny that every christian wants to go to heaven, but no one wants to die to get there ;)
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That is due to the fact that we are in harmony with God's will that we should be here and working to fulfill His will in the process. However i can understand someone like my wife not wanting to leave Heaven because she finds evil so abhorrent. Perhaps it is my ability to make an accomodation with sin that causes me to be here, lol.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Danmac said:
A person that is sinless would not need a savior. Jesus was sinless and he didn't need one. Well you and Jesus that is.:)
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Don't forget that sinless couple from the Bible Koldo pointed out to you. Me, Jesus and them. And Mary, I presume. It's an elite club, certainly, but with more than one member. ;)
 
H

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
Alceste said:
I thought not, and I appreciate the honest answer. :) It seems many will try to find a way to argue I still need to become a Christian (for my own good, mind you) despite the fact I know in my heart I am not a sinner, need no salvation and don't wish for eternal life.
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*Edited * Sin or not is measured by Law, your own evaluation won't count. Consider that even some criminals will claim to be innocent (sinless). In the end, only the judge and the jury can decide, not the suspect himself.

*Edited *

Theologically, almost everyone is not righteous in God's eye. So it is prophecied that few can pass the judgment by God's Law. Moreover, Satan is your accuser, he might remember well how he tempted you to sin then he will accuss you of sinning. So again theologically, if you are confident enough, you can choose to stand court to face your charge. But don't complain about the result of the judgment. That's it!

Christianity is just a request for a wiser choice to be made, in the end it is your own life and your own risk.
 
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Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Hawkins said:
*Edited * Sin or not is measured by Law, your own evaluation won't count. Consider that even some criminals will claim to be innocent (sinless). In the end, only the judge and the jury can decide, not the suspect himself.

*Edited *

Theologically, almost everyone is not righteous in God's eye. So it is prophecied that few can pass the judgment by God's Law. Moreover, Satan is your accuser, he might remember well how he tempted you to sin then he will accuss you of sinning. So again theologically, if you are confident enough, you can choose to stand court to face your charge. But don't complain about the result of the judgment. That's it!

Christianity is just a request for a wiser choice to be made, in the end it is your own life and your own risk.
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I am not a Christian, so Satan doesn't bother with me. :D

Do you not worry a religion that demands self-loathing will push seekers who are feel good about their lives to other religions and draw in only people with low self-esteem and a tendency to do evil?
 
blackout

blackout

Violet.
LuisDantas said:
Back in the day people knew how to sin properly. You kids these days...
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LOL!

I do have my collection sinners hats though.
I'm not above putting them on for fun.
And besides, they make me look so sexy. :flirt:

Which is always a good thing.
 
F

Frank Merton

Active Member
Alceste said:
I have to admit, I often wonder why the folks who believe in a perfect afterlife don't just stampede over a cliff like lemmings in their eagerness to get there. I read that as wavering conviction. ;)
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The undiscovere'd country, from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
The question here is whether you need a saviour at all?

If you believe in a physical resurrection and/or believe in sin, many Christians believe it is the way to go. For non Christians it is a moot point.

I do not believe in a physical Resurrection, but I do believe that we need to repent our sins, to have them forgiven.
Even if we have never committed a sin in our lives there are still the greater sins of omission.
 
sandy whitelinger

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
Alceste said:
I asked this on another thread and it seems to have stumped the "theologian". I wondered if any other Christian would like to have a go.

So, do I? I don't want to hear any tedious, irrelevant Kirk Cameronisms here ("have you ever been a speeder, have you ever littered, have you ever burned ants with a magnifying glass, have you ever masturbated", etc). If you think it is impossible for me to be free from sin, just treat the question as a hypothetical. Imagine a person who has never done any of the things you think are "sins" and tell me if they need saving. Yes or no, and why.
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According to the Bible everyone will die because of Adam's sin. We will all be ressurected after death to stand and be judged for or sins. There is no mention in the Bible about what would happen to someone who has never sinned (the bible is clear that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God). It is clear though that rejecting Christ will condemn one to the Lake of Fire. Accepting Him is the ticket to everlasting life. John 3: 17-18

Sin really isn't the determining factor for acceptance or condemnation.
 
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