If Jesus isn't the only way to come to God...

[Aupmanyav]

But when it comes to understanding our own experience I don’t demand objective, evidence seen from outside.

Well, again, to each his/her own. I demand evidence, even for my own experience. What is perceived is not at all true.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. you can choose to jump off a cliff, ..
Now, let’s just say I’m the creator, and you have to do everything I say.
Or, You can make your own choices in life…
Which would you prefer?

That is not a free-will that I like.
Who is saying that Kim Jong Un? Putin, Xi?
Why allow them to make foolish choices and then put them in hell for eternity?
I would prefer a world in which we do not make foolish choices.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The word God is not important to me but I sense it is to you but I do think we need an unword for for whatever it is which has made our world, our being and our experience possible.

No one made the universe except the 'physical energy' (plasma*) with which we started at the time of expansion of the universe - 'inflation'.
The rest was done by that helical arrangement, polymeric** macro-molecule ('physical energy' again).
* characterized by the presence of a significant portion of charged particles in any combination of ions or electrons.
** a substance or material consisting of very large molecules linked together into chains of repeating subunits.

 

[sun rise]

I do think we need an unword for for whatever it is which has made our world, our being and our experience possible.

My teacher used what you've called an "unword". She would put upward and say "that" to refer to what is "beyond imagination and conception".

 

[Valjean]

That depends on what we value and cultivate in our selves. GIGO

Do you value truth?

 

[Valjean]

If you have so little faith in yourself you’re pretty much at the mercy of your ability to pick an expert out of a line up.

I can usually review the experts' evidence directly, by myself.

 

[Valjean]

The word God is not important to me but I sense it is to you but I do think we need an unword for for whatever it is which has made our world, our being and our experience possible.

How about "Physics?"

 

[Brian2]

I believe that everyone will be judged by God when they die because Baha'u'llah wrote the following:

"If, in the Day when all the peoples of the earth will be gathered together, any man should, whilst standing in the presence of God, be asked: “Wherefore hast thou disbelieved in My Beauty and turned away from My Self,” and if such a man should reply and say: “Inasmuch as all men have erred, and none hath been found willing to turn his face to the Truth, I, too, following their example, have grievously failed to recognize the Beauty of the Eternal,” such a plea will, assuredly, be rejected. For the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 143-144

Baha'u'llah also wrote:

“Know ye that the world and its vanities and its embellishments shall pass away. Nothing will endure except God’s Kingdom which pertaineth to none but Him, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Help in Peril, the All-Glorious, the Almighty. The days of your life shall roll away, and all the things with which ye are occupied and of which ye boast yourselves shall perish, and ye shall, most certainly, be summoned by a company of His angels to appear at the spot where the limbs of the entire creation shall be made to tremble, and the flesh of every oppressor to creep. Ye shall be asked of the things your hands have wrought in this, your vain life, and shall be repaid for your doings. This is the day that shall inevitably come upon you, the hour that none can put back. To this the Tongue of Him that speaketh the truth and is the Knower of all things hath testified.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 122-125

reference.bahai.org

Yes everyone is judged by God when they die but as Jesus said:
John 5:22 Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son,

How is Jesus being the only way to the Father related to everyone being judged by Jesus when they die?

Everyone has to get past the judgement of Jesus before they can get to the Father. So going through Jesus is the only way to the Father.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes everyone is judged by God when they die but as Jesus said:
John 5:22 Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son,

I think that verse means that God assigned Jesus to judge while Jesus was on earth, not as the judge of who gets to heaven.
Jesus told us what we need to do to get to heaven, but God makes the determination of who gets in.

Everyone has to get past the judgement of Jesus before they can get to the Father. So going through Jesus is the only way to the Father.

I believe that Jesus was the only way to the Father during the dispensation of Jesus, until Muhammad appeared, and then Muhammad was another way to the Father. Then when the Bab and Baha'u'llah appeared, they were ways to the Father.

Of course, Muslims and Baha'is believe in Jesus as well, as a way to the Father.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Why allow them to make foolish choices and then put them in hell for eternity?

Yes, such an outcome makes no sense, does it?

Hell (Sheol) is not what it’s been made out to be.

The good man Jacob, in Genesis 37, said he was going to Hell (Sheol) when he died….

Jesus was in there when He died….(then at His resurrection, He was taken out.)

Job prayed to go to Hell (Sheol) to get away from his suffering (Job 14:11)…

Ecclesiastes 9:10 indicates everybody goes there at their death…

At Revelation 20:13,14, we read that Hell is “cast into” the Lake of Fire (so it can’t be the L of F)….

The Bible just doesn’t teach what the majority of people have been led to believe about it.
And hellfire is a mistranslation of Gehenna.

I would prefer a world in which we do not make foolish choices.

Yes, me too.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Then it's a good thing they are not true.

So, just what kind of God do you believe in? You think God can’t perform miracles? I don’t understand you.

If He can harness energy and create the Sun & establish the orbit of the planets around it, I’d say He can perform miracles…and did.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I'm well aware of the controversy.

You are? Then what controversy am I speaking of?

I see no justice in any of these stories.

I was not talking about justice in those stories! Your statement right there, tells me that you apparently didn’t grasp my point.

There is no consideration of human rights. We are essentially, livestock or shelf pets, to be toyed with for God's amusement.

You think the events surrounding A&E and their rebellion are myths.

So you are unable to see how Christ’s sacrifice has any value. Jesus’ Divine perfect life given, to replace Adam’s perfect life lost (which in turn we lost, inheriting imperfect life as Adam’s descendants), won’t make sense to you.

Though I (and millions of others) understand perfectly how it will aid mankind. And already does now, for those who exercise faith in it.

And I think, one day in the future, you’ll be given an opportunity to learn about the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice, without distraction or influence.

Then you & I will go and have a beer.

 

[Whateverist]

My teacher used what you've called an "unword". She would put upward and say "that" to refer to what is "beyond imagination and conception".

I wonder what coursework would elicit such a comment. Do you remember the course name and what degree goal it served?

 

[Whateverist]

How about "Physics?"

Already taken and, as conventionally conceived,only concerned with the world, not life or consciousness.

 

[Brian2]

I think that verse means that God assigned Jesus to judge while Jesus was on earth, not as the judge of who gets to heaven.
Jesus told us what we need to do to get to heaven, but God makes the determination of who gets in.

John 5: 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. 30 By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

I believe that Jesus was the only way to the Father during the dispensation of Jesus, until Muhammad appeared, and then Muhammad was another way to the Father. Then when the Bab and Baha'u'llah appeared, they were ways to the Father.

Of course, Muslims and Baha'is believe in Jesus as well, as a way to the Father.

That seems inconsistent. You say Jesus was the only way to the Father during the dispensation of Jesus, then you say that Muslims and Baha'is believe Jesus is a way to the Father. You should make up your mind if He was or still is. You should also think about Moses and Noah etc and whether they were still ways to the Father when Jesus said that He is the only way.

 

[Muffled]

Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to come to God, and the only mediator between God and man, making Christianity the only true religion. This belief is based upon the following Bible verses.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus did not say that He was the only way to come to the Father for all of time, but that is what Christians believe. However, that makes no sense because we know that before Jesus walked the earth the Jews came to God by way of Moses, so why would Jesus suddenly become the only way for all time? Why couldn't Muslims come to God by way of Muhammad and Baha'is by way of Baha'u'llah, at a later time in history?

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before Jesus walked the earth, Moses was a mediator between God and men, so why couldn't Muslims come to God by way of yet another mediator, Muhammad, and Baha'is by way of yet another mediator, Baha'u'llah?



This post is about if Jesus isn't the only way to come to God.

If Jesus isn't the only way to come to God that would mean that Christianity is not the only true religion.
In that case, I have two questions:

1) How would that make Christianity any less of a true religion?
2) How would that make Jesus any less of a Savior?

These questions are mainly directed at Christians, although anyone is welcome to answer them.

Thanks, Trailblazer

I believe they are misinterpreting what Jesus said. The fact is that Mohammed or anyone else coming to God finds Jesus also since He is God in the flesh. You can't get one without the other because it is the same God.

I believe it is not a matter of what is true but the fact that Christianity is the only religion that offers eternal life.

1. I believe it does not
2. I believe it does not

 

[Muffled]

Adam was God's first begotten according to Genesis and the 2nd Adam was attributed to be the Christ, so if Christ equates to "anointed one", then there is your answer. If not, then perhaps I'm not seeing clearly enough to understand the "true" intent of meaning.

I don't remember Adam being referred to as begotten since he did not have a living mother or father.

 

[Jimmy]

I don't remember Adam being referred to as begotten since he did not have a living mother or father.

Begotten by god

 

[Muffled]

Jesus's method, Jesus's Way, Jesus's preaching is the only way to God. And fortunately our God is a fair and loving God who has sent multitudes of messengers that say the same thing Jesus's ministry was all about:
Be kind and love one another.
He even sent those found here on RF that speak that message from whatever path they travel.

I believe I heard from God well before I knew Jesus.

 

[Jimmy]

So, just what kind of God do you believe in? You think God can’t perform miracles? I don’t understand you.

If He can harness energy and create the Sun & establish the orbit of the planets around it, I’d say He can perform miracles…and did.

When do you think the world began?