If Jesus isn't the only way to come to God...

[Jimmy]

I would say it as there is only one eternal Avatar that Christians call the "son of God" others having different names for the One.

Everyone is eternal but it’s Jesus who makes it possible imo.

 

[CG Didymus]

That seems inconsistent. You say Jesus was the only way to the Father during the dispensation of Jesus, then you say that Muslims and Baha'is believe Jesus is a way to the Father. You should make up your mind if He was or still is. You should also think about Moses and Noah etc and whether they were still ways to the Father when Jesus said that He is the only way.

The Baha'is do change the Jesus story and other stories in the Bible.

The Baha'is make Noah a manifestation of God? Yet, I doubt they believe the flood story. But here's the Baha'i version of Noah's story...

Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace. None, however, heeded His call. Each day they inflicted on His blessed person such pain and suffering that no one believed He could survive. How frequently they denied Him, how malevolently they hinted their suspicion against Him! Thus it hath been revealed: “And as often as a company of His people passed by Him, they derided Him. To them He said: ‘Though ye scoff at us now, we will scoff at you hereafter even as ye scoff at us. In the end ye shall know.’”3 Long afterward, He several times promised victory to His companions and fixed the hour thereof. But when the hour struck, the divine promise was not fulfilled. This caused a few among the small number of His followers to turn away from Him, and to this testify the records of the best-known books. These you must certainly have perused; if not, undoubtedly you will. Finally, as stated in books and traditions, there remained with Him only forty or seventy-two of His followers. At last from the depth of His being He cried aloud: “Lord! Leave not upon the land a single dweller from among the unbelievers.”​

​

Nothing about the flood or the Nephilim or the Ark and the animals... I wonder, where did this story come from? And for that one Baha'i that keeps claiming that Baha'is don't change things, then tell me... Does this story change things from what the Bible story says?

Oh, and I have to add... Does the Baha'i Faith change the story of Abraham taking Isaac to be sacrificed? Yes, Baha'is say it was Ishmael. That's a pretty big change. Oh, and my favorite... Baha'is change the resurrection of Jesus from having him physically coming back to life and saying that he did not physically rise from the dead, but he "spiritually" rose from the dead.

Here's a Baha'i quote about Ishmael...

Muhammad, as quoted in the Qur’an, strongly hinted that Ishmael was the sacrificial son, and implied that the incident took place before the birth of Isaac, during the period of time when Ishmael truly was “the only son.” Baha’u’llah later confirmed Muhammad’s hint by directly identifying Ishmael as the one who was to be offered up:​

​

That which thou hast heard concerning Abraham, the Friend of the All-Merciful, is the truth, and no doubt is there about it. The Voice of God commanded Him to offer up Ishmael as a sacrifice, so that His steadfastness in the Faith of God and His detachment from all else but Him may be demonstrated unto men. – Baha’u’llah​

The corrections given by Muhammad and Baha’u’llah to the account in Genesis make it clear that, for whatever reason, the version of the sacrifice given in Genesis is not perfect.​

​

And here's a Baha'i quote about the resurrection...

We explain, therefore, the meaning of Christ’s resurrection in the following way: After the martyrdom of Christ, the Apostles were perplexed and dismayed. The reality of Christ, which consists in His teachings, His bounties, His perfections, and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and had no outward appearance or manifestation—indeed, it was as though it were entirely lost. For those who truly believed were few in number, and even those few were perplexed and dismayed. The Cause of Christ was thus as a lifeless body. After three days the Apostles became firm and steadfast, arose to aid the Cause of Christ, resolved to promote the divine teachings and practise their Lord’s admonitions, and endeavoured to serve Him. Then did the reality of Christ become resplendent, His grace shine forth, His religion find new life, and His teachings and admonitions become manifest and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ, which was like unto a lifeless body, was quickened to life and surrounded by the grace of the Holy Spirit.​

​

Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection.​

​

Those are changes to the story.... Whether additions, corrections, or interpretations. What's so wrong about admitting it? After all, Baha'is might be right.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Baha'is do change the Jesus story and other stories in the Bible.

We do not change anything, we only interpret it differently from Christians.
Changing something implies that there was a correct interpretation that we changed. That is laughable.

I guess you don't realize that all Christians do not believe the following:

Jesus is God.
Jesus rose from the dead.
Jesus is coming back to earth.
All the stories in the OT are literally true.

But you are right about the Jesus story -- all it is is a story made up by men who did not even know Jesus.
The real Jesus would be aghast at all the stories that were told about Him, the falsehoods and fabrications.

 

[Sargonski]

There’s only one in my opinion. The one who resurrects the dead. He’s not only the son of God that is considered God as well. God in the flesh.

Are many gods in the flesh as well?

That is all good and well brother King .. but you are confused as it is not the Son who resurrects from the dead .. but the Father who does the resurrecting.

This has nothing to do with your previously claim that there is only one Son of this God .. whose name you have not revealed. Which God (what is his name) do you say is the Father of Jesus and has only one son ?

I have no idea how many Gods have chosen to come in the Flesh but, we are told there were many .. some taking human wives and producing offspring .. some of whome were sons, who were the great hero's of old .. having special powers.

 

[Jimmy]

That is all good and well brother King .. but you are confused as it is not the Son who resurrects from the dead .. but the Father who does the resurrecting.

This has nothing to do with your previously claim that there is only one Son of this God .. whose name you have not revealed. Which God (what is his name) do you say is the Father of Jesus and has only one son ?

I have no idea how many Gods have chosen to come in the Flesh but, we are told there were many .. some taking human wives and producing offspring .. some of whome were sons, who were the great hero's of old .. having special powers.

Without the son the father wouldn’t be resurrecting anybody for it is the son who he resurrects. So one can say the son resurrects the rest.

 

[Jimmy]

That is all good and well brother King .. but you are confused as it is not the Son who resurrects from the dead .. but the Father who does the resurrecting.

This has nothing to do with your previously claim that there is only one Son of this God .. whose name you have not revealed. Which God (what is his name) do you say is the Father of Jesus and has only one son ?

I have no idea how many Gods have chosen to come in the Flesh but, we are told there were many .. some taking human wives and producing offspring .. some of whome were sons, who were the great hero's of old .. having special powers.

Gods son is Jesus. You can Google God‘s name if you want.

 

[Sargonski]

Without the son the father wouldn’t be resurrecting anybody for it is the son who he resurrects. So one can say the son resurrects the rest.

Gods son is Jesus. You can Google God‘s name if you want.

You were not asked the name God's son Brother King .. but the name of the Father of that Son . Without the Son the Father is still able to ressurect anyone he wants.

Why do you believe God Supreme is powerless to resurrect humans ? and the Son does not resurrect anyone as far as we are told .. it is The Father who does the resurrecting. The Father ..who's name you apparently do not know ... yet you claim to know all kinds of things about this God's power.

 

[Jimmy]

You were not asked the name God's son Brother King .. but the name of the Father of that Son . Without the Son the Father is still able to ressurect anyone he wants.

Why do you believe God Supreme is powerless to resurrect humans ? and the Son does not resurrect anyone as far as we are told .. it is The Father who does the resurrecting. The Father ..who's name you apparently do not know ... yet you claim to know all kinds of things about this God's power.

Without the son the father wouldn’t even exist and vice versa. Like I said you can Google the name of the father if you want.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I would prefer a world in which we do not make foolish choices.

Yes, me too.

I do not believe in the existence of God, soul or on the people who claim the have the word of this God. Doing so without any evidence, is one of such choices.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Then it wouldn’t be a world now would it?

Yeah, it would have been different. What we now have is a very unsatisfactory world, wrong in a thousand ways - as if created by a devil for his enjoyment.

 

[Jimmy]

Yeah, it would have been different. What we now have is a very unsatisfactory world, wrong in a thousand ways - as if created by a devil for his enjoyment.

Eh

 

[Brian2]

Again, you're stating your beliefs as if they are true, rather than specifying that this is simply your personal Christian beliefs.

You have not been confused by that and I presume that nobody else is going to be confused by it.
But I am in the middle of a discussion with someone else and in that context also it is fine IMO to speak as I do.

Haven't you noticed the many others on this forum who do the same thing, and yet you have no problem with them and what they are preaching. Is it me or what I am "preaching" which is a problem.

You should report me if it concerns you so much.

 

[Brian2]

Gen 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground ....

I believe that is not the same thing. The word formed suggest there was a beginning material to shape into a man. Since Eve was cloned from Adam it is reasonable to believe Adam was cloned also.

"The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground" does not suggest cloning to me at all.

 

[Brian2]

What Born-Again Christians believe is a long way from what Baha'is believe. Jesus being the only way is only part of it. By saying that Jesus was the "only" way for his dispensation but then there were other ways, doesn't answer the other Christian beliefs that are bypassed by Baha'is.

Starting with Adam and his disobedience, Baha'is start changing things. Christians need Adam to be the reason sin entered the world. Christians need Satan to be real. Christians need the Laws of Moses, but they need them to have been impossible to be followed. Leaving people unable to be good enough to save themselves.

Baha'is have to make all these things false, and thereby, eliminate the need for Jesus to have paid the penalty for sin. Which makes it so he's not the only way. With the Baha'i Faith it is up to a person to believe and follow God's laws. Which makes is it similar to Judaism and Islam.,, a person can "save" themselves by their "works".

But Baha'is do it to the other religions also. They have to make changes to Hinduism and Buddhism. They can't have a religion say that people come back again and again until they reach a perfect state and are released from the need for their soul to get reborn into another body. It's more than just saying that rebirth or reincarnation isn't true, they have to deny several other beliefs that are held by Hindus and Buddhists.

Which belief is the truth? I don't know. I have questions and doubts about all of them. But at least Born-Again Christians don't have to do anything with the other religions, they just make them all wrong. Whereas Baha'is have to make changes to all of them, and once they've reinterpreted them to fit their beliefs, they can then say that all of them are correct.

But, because they have made changes to Christianity, it is not the same Christianity that a Born-Again Christian believes in. And I think they'd be much more honest if they just said that Born-Again Christianity is a false religion.

There's just not enough left that a Baha'i can say is true about Born-Again Christianity... Six-day creation, the flood, inherited sin, Satan and hell, most all of the miracles, especially miracles that involve casting out demons or raising the dead, and the resurrection and ascension of Jesus, and... that Jesus is God and the only way... Oh, and that he is coming back... all those things are denied as being true or interpreted as being "symbolically" and not "literally" true.

Yes Baha'i is an interesting religion to say the least.

 

[Brian2]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus never said that He was the only way to the Father for all of time.

When Jesus said "no man" that would include you and me and Baha'u'llah and Moses and the Buddha. (even if you are woman).

Jesus was the way to the Father during His dispensation.

Moses and Noah were ways to the Father during their dispensations.

Muhammad was a way to the Father during His dispensation.

Now, during the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah, Baha'u'llah is the way to the Father. It is not that you cannot come to the Father through Jesus, but God would prefer that we all come to the Father by way of His latest Manifestation, which is Baha'u'llah.

So Baha'is say that Jesus the way to the Father during His dispensation but others also were the way to God during His dispensation, just as Baha'u'llah is the way to God now and every other Manifestation is also the way to God now. So Jesus was mistaken or lying of the Bible has been corrupted where Jesus said that He is the only way to the Father, even if He only meant that all have to go through Him in the final judgement.
That is the spirit of Baha'u'llah, a false prophet, coming out in his followers. ie, the Bible is wrong.

 

[Brian2]

The Baha'is do change the Jesus story and other stories in the Bible.

The Baha'is make Noah a manifestation of God? Yet, I doubt they believe the flood story. But here's the Baha'i version of Noah's story...

Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted His people and summoned them to the haven of security and peace. None, however, heeded His call. Each day they inflicted on His blessed person such pain and suffering that no one believed He could survive. How frequently they denied Him, how malevolently they hinted their suspicion against Him! Thus it hath been revealed: “And as often as a company of His people passed by Him, they derided Him. To them He said: ‘Though ye scoff at us now, we will scoff at you hereafter even as ye scoff at us. In the end ye shall know.’”3 Long afterward, He several times promised victory to His companions and fixed the hour thereof. But when the hour struck, the divine promise was not fulfilled. This caused a few among the small number of His followers to turn away from Him, and to this testify the records of the best-known books. These you must certainly have perused; if not, undoubtedly you will. Finally, as stated in books and traditions, there remained with Him only forty or seventy-two of His followers. At last from the depth of His being He cried aloud: “Lord! Leave not upon the land a single dweller from among the unbelievers.”​

​

Nothing about the flood or the Nephilim or the Ark and the animals... I wonder, where did this story come from? And for that one Baha'i that keeps claiming that Baha'is don't change things, then tell me... Does this story change things from what the Bible story says?

Oh, and I have to add... Does the Baha'i Faith change the story of Abraham taking Isaac to be sacrificed? Yes, Baha'is say it was Ishmael. That's a pretty big change. Oh, and my favorite... Baha'is change the resurrection of Jesus from having him physically coming back to life and saying that he did not physically rise from the dead, but he "spiritually" rose from the dead.

Here's a Baha'i quote about Ishmael...

Muhammad, as quoted in the Qur’an, strongly hinted that Ishmael was the sacrificial son, and implied that the incident took place before the birth of Isaac, during the period of time when Ishmael truly was “the only son.” Baha’u’llah later confirmed Muhammad’s hint by directly identifying Ishmael as the one who was to be offered up:​

​

The corrections given by Muhammad and Baha’u’llah to the account in Genesis make it clear that, for whatever reason, the version of the sacrifice given in Genesis is not perfect.​

​

And here's a Baha'i quote about the resurrection...

We explain, therefore, the meaning of Christ’s resurrection in the following way: After the martyrdom of Christ, the Apostles were perplexed and dismayed. The reality of Christ, which consists in His teachings, His bounties, His perfections, and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and had no outward appearance or manifestation—indeed, it was as though it were entirely lost. For those who truly believed were few in number, and even those few were perplexed and dismayed. The Cause of Christ was thus as a lifeless body. After three days the Apostles became firm and steadfast, arose to aid the Cause of Christ, resolved to promote the divine teachings and practise their Lord’s admonitions, and endeavoured to serve Him. Then did the reality of Christ become resplendent, His grace shine forth, His religion find new life, and His teachings and admonitions become manifest and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ, which was like unto a lifeless body, was quickened to life and surrounded by the grace of the Holy Spirit.​

​

Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection.​

​

Those are changes to the story.... Whether additions, corrections, or interpretations. What's so wrong about admitting it? After all, Baha'is might be right.

Yes there are glaring changes that they make to the Bible yet many of them do not even admit that directly even though they may say that the Bible has been corrupted,,,,,,,,,,,,, which is admitting it really.

 

[Trailblazer]

When Jesus said "no man" that would include you and me and Baha'u'llah and Moses and the Buddha. (even if you are woman).

You are hanging onto one Bible verse because you have nothing else.
There is no reason to think that Jesus ever said that. That is one of the alleged sayings of Jesus that has been determined not to have been have been uttered by Jesus.

Jesus Seminar Phase 1: Sayings of Jesus | Westar Institute

The original Jesus Seminar (Sayings) is Westar’s first and best-known project. What did Jesus really say? The findings of the seminar sparked widespread debate and controversy. Its major book is The Five Gospels.

www.westarinstitute.org

So Baha'is say that Jesus the way to the Father during His dispensation but others also were the way to God during His dispensation, just as Baha'u'llah is the way to God now and every other Manifestation is also the way to God now. So Jesus was mistaken or lying of the Bible has been corrupted where Jesus said that He is the only way to the Father, even if He only meant that all have to go through Him in the final judgement.
That is the spirit of Baha'u'llah, a false prophet, coming out in his followers. ie, the Bible is wrong.

Seminar Rules Out 80% of Words Attributed to Jesus : Religion: Provocative meeting of biblical scholars ends six years of voting on authenticity in the Gospels.

“Most scholars, if they had worked through the sayings as we had, would tend to agree there is virtually nothing in the fourth Gospel (John) that goes back to Jesus,” said Robert Fortna of Vassar College. Jesus says in John “I am the good shepherd . . . I am the light of the world . . . I am the bread of life,” but that “is mostly the work of the author,” Fortna said. Jesus rarely refers to himself in the other Gospels.

THE REJECTED SAYINGS

The Jesus Seminar, a six-year project based in Sonoma to assess the historical authenticity of sayings attributed to Jesus, concluded that about half were words put into his mouth by Gospel authors and early believers in reflection of their own hopes and fears. Among the sayings rejected were the following:

John 3:16: “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.”

John 14:6: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

Mark 13:25, 30: (A series of apocalyptic sayings) “Then they will see ‘the Son of Man coming in the clouds’ with great power and glory. . . . Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place.”

Matthew 5:11: “Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.”

Mark 10:32-34: “See, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be handed over to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death; then they will hand him over to the Gentiles; they will mock him, and spit upon him, and flog him, and kill him; and after three days he will rise again.”

Seminar Rules Out 80% of Words Attributed to Jesus : Religion: Provocative meeting of biblical scholars ends six years of voting on authenticity in the Gospels.

The provocative Jesus Seminar on Sunday concluded six years of voting on what the Jesus of history most likely said, ruling out about 80% of words attributed to him in the Gospels and emerging with the picture of a prophet-sage who told parables and made pithy comments.

www.latimes.com

 

[Hockeycowboy]

When do you think the world began?

The Earth? It could be billions of years old.
Why? Is Jehovah God limited by time?
When you read the events occurring in those Creative Days, especially Day 6, they had to have taken some time.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes there are glaring changes that they make to the Bible yet many of them do not even admit that directly even though they may say that the Bible has been corrupted,,,,,,,,,,,,, which is admitting it really.

But they do accept the Quran as being more authoritative than the Bible and the NT. Because of that, I've asked them if they believe the story in the NT about Jesus being born in a stable in Bethlehem is wrong. Because the Quran has Mary giving birth to Jesus under a date palm tree. I would have to assume they would take the version in the Quran over the one in the NT.

And then there's Baha'u'llah's story about Noah. I imagine he borrowed it from Islamic stories, because it is nothing like the Bible version.

But anyway, I found an interesting Baha'i interpretation of the Flood, which, as usual, makes it symbolic...

Perhaps, then, these ubiquitous deluge myths signify something more, something deeply symbolic meant to inspire and educate us.​

​

The Baha’i teachings indicate that the Ark riding the waves of a deluge refers directly to the coming of a new prophet of God, and the new principles and laws that prophet brings. Symbolically, the flood washes away the broken traces of the old religious dispensation; and remakes the Earth for the appearance of the new one, just as the spring rains and floods inundate the land and sweep the detritus of winter out to sea. As a symbol of God’s teachings and covenant, the Ark represents the salvation of the people in each era...​

​

Now, if that's the correct way of interpreting Bible stories, it sure changes things. Oh wait, Baha'is say they don't change things. Yeah, right. The Baha'i interpretations of the Bible changes everything. And now for my disclaimer... And maybe they are right. Who knows?

And now I see she's added the "Jesus Seminar". She might as well add Udo Schaefer too and get rid of Paul.

 

[GoodAttention]

And now for my disclaimer... And maybe they are right. Who knows?

Would make for a great bumper sticker or t-shirt.