If Jesus isn't the only way to come to God...

[Link]

Jesus did not say that He was the only way to come to the Father for all of time, but that is what Christians believe.

True. But Quran does say Mohammad (s) and his family (a) are the path for all the worlds so it means that they are universal. It says Mohammad (s) is sent to all of humans all together. That means Baha'allah cannot abrogate his Messengerhood.

 

[Link]

Here is a thread discussing such verses: Mohammad (s) and his family (a) is the final chosen family sent to mankind per Quran.

 

[Trailblazer]

All people means all people. Not just some people at some point of time.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Where did Jesus say at all points in time?

Jesus has said,
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
You may be able to choose are you righteous, but that the eternal life is for righteous, is not your decision.

I agree.

 

[Aupmanyav]

And I think at some point, some of these religions have to be thought of as just being false and manmade.

Make it all the time. God is a creation of human imagination, mostly of greedy and evil shamans (messenger is a synonym for that).

 

[Truthseeker]

Why did he not remove this option to choose bad from free-will.

Because if he did there would be no free will.

 

[1213]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Where did Jesus say at all points in time?

If ones says "no man", it is not necessary to say at all points of time, because "no man" means no man. If some men could come by some other way at some point, he could not say "no man".

 

[Sargonski]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Where did Jesus say at all points in time?

I agree.

According to the Author of John .. who wasn't John the disciple .. Jesus was "The Logos" the conduit between man and the God of Jesus "The Father" No one can access this God directly .. must do it through the emmissary between man and God ..

This means symbolicly that "The Logos" .. which was through Jesus during his time .. was the only path sybolicly at that time .. but there were other conduits opened up before and after Jesus .. to the God of Jesus .. .. other conduits opened up for other Gods.

The problem with Christians is that they don't know who owns what conduit .. thus know naught which commands to follow to be put right with God.

 

[CG Didymus]

Because if he did there would be no free will.

Yes, you're absolutely right. My son's been trying to instill good morals into my grandkids. That's not right. They have to be allowed to exercise their free will. I'm not going to have a bunch of automatons in my family. I want them to love me and my son on their own... without being forced.

Of course, that would be stupid. But when God does it... it's brilliant? No, it's still stupid.

God gives humans a lower animal nature along with a spiritual nature and lets them pick between the two? And then he wonders why so many people pick the lower animal nature?

 

[The Hammer]

Like someone pointed it out here, just about all religions have a Messiah that’s gonna return. It’s all good.

Not quite what I meant when I said many religions have a resurrection figure.

 

[Trailblazer]

If ones says "no man", it is not necessary to say at all points of time, because "no man" means no man. If some men could come by some other way at some point, he could not say "no man".

Jesus said: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus did not say: no man will ever cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Trailblazer]

God gives humans a lower animal nature along with a spiritual nature and lets them pick between the two? And then he wonders why so many people pick the lower animal nature?

I don't think God wonders why so many people pick the lower animal nature.
I think God knows why so many people do so. After all, God is all-knowing.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Anyone with good deeds will get everlasting life.

Ah, I stumbled. Not everlasting life. That is for people who have 0 bad deeds. For others who have some good some bad deeds, heaven and hell in that proportion; and then a new birth, another chance.

.. they can love and respect those that disagree with them.

Perhaps they can, but the people whom they mention as having an incorrect opinion of their own scriptures are hardly going to love them.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Because if he did there would be no free will.

Why at all, the free will was necessary? There can be options even if the free-will lets us choose only the good. That would have sufficed.
But no. Your God was not satisfied with that. Therefore, he made it possible for humans to do bad things, so that he could punish them in some way or the other. And among the good deeds he placed acceptance of One God at #1, and acceptance of the messenger at #2. Doing good things come only after that. Good things don't help you if you have not done #1 and #2. And we must act as God's slaves and constantly worship him. Five times a day in Quran and perhaps nine times a day in Bahai religion. We must not waste time in things like music, entertainment. In Quran and Bahaollah's writings, God addresses people as 'O My Slaves'. It is disgusting mentality of a dictator. What pleasure does God gets when people worship him on their knees?

 

[B-psychedelic]

Christians believe that Jesus is the only way to come to God, and the only mediator between God and man, making Christianity the only true religion. This belief is based upon the following Bible verses.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by me.

Jesus did not say He was the only way to come to the Father for all of time, but that is what Christians believe. However, that makes no sense because we know that before Jesus walked the earth the Jews came to God by way of Moses, so why would Jesus suddenly become the only way for all time? Why couldn't Muslims come to God by way of Muhammad and Baha'is by way of Baha'u'llah, at a later time in history?

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Before Jesus walked the earth, Moses was a mediator between God and men, so why couldn't Muslims come to God by way of another mediator, Muhammad, and Baha'is by way of yet another mediator, Baha'u'llah?



This post is about if Jesus isn't the only way to come to God.

If Jesus isn't the only way to come to God that would mean that Christianity is not the only true religion.
In that case, I have two questions:

1) How would that make Christianity any less of a true religion?
2) How would that make Jesus any less of a Savior?

These questions are mainly directed at Christians, although anyone is welcome to answer them.

Thanks, Trailblazer

Without Christ Jesus, there's no Christianity because he is the Epicenter of the faith, on that note;
1. If there's another way to God other than Christ Jesus, then it would be considered provided it given criteria is humanly possible to achieve.
2. If there is another way to God otherwise then Jesus would be a liar and can not be the savior.
NB: all answers are based on the condition stated above.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think God knows why so many people do so. After all, God is all-knowing.

True. Who would know better about a product that one has himself created? He wanted it that way. Or otherwise his engineering was faulty. And of this faulty creation, he said it was good. What would you say of a company who claims that their car is good, and this turns out to be rubbish when the car is used.

 

[B-psychedelic]

Doesn't this whole discussion presume the reality of the judgemental God and subservient man mythology? Do we really need a mediator? Are we really in grave peril and need salvation?

Why did God have to sacrifice Himself to Himself to "atone" for the sins that He, Himself engineered and knowingly tricked man into breaching? Couldn't the author of the whole universe have designed a safe, secure world and well-behaved children in the first place?

1. I don't know your stand in terms of beliefs and therefore I wouldn't know how to address you.
2. Don't pretend to understand the topic just because you've read some articles on religion and you think you know better looking at the ideology you are bring up
3. A good programmer designs a bug free program, yet there are always bugs. The good programmer always find ways to eliminate those bugs. God never created or engineered sin. rules were set, and they were broken, now for God to be just, the stipulated punishment should apply. But out of love, he then have to go out of his way to justify creation by paying the stipulated punishment. is it clear?

 

[B-psychedelic]

IMHO, before starting a long discussion on what is written in the books of this person or that, fighting with this view or that (Bahais are contradiction with every other religion of the world), you need to establish the existence of any God.

We have a saying in Hindi - 'Soot na kapās, julahe se lattham-latthā' (You neither have thread nor cotton, but you are fighting with the weaver).
English varient: 'Much ado about nothing'.

Aupmanyav, "every design, points to an intelligent mind or creator" by Pastor Cliff Knechtle. Religion believes that an intelligent creator is behind this Orderly designed Universe and Christians believe it is God. Now you and I know the universe we've come to know and love is not self-existing and it is caused by something or someone and that entity is the God factor​

 

[Valjean]

These things are terribly unfair from the human perspective. But God created ALL things and they are ALL GOOD. Why should we believe humans are superior? It's only because we believe it -- that doesn't make it so. Humility is a powerful force. That force can bring personal peace. This is Tao, if I'm learning properly. And is tied to Nirvana, again if I'm learning correctly.

Science has shown we all carry cancer cells, but what makes them activate aggressively is still unknown. What is their dormant purpose? Unknown. Will we ever know? Perhaps. But until then, acceptance that our Universe is made of individual perfections that sometimes appear to collide in disaster, but for an unrecognizable good, can ease a troubled mind.

But this is all mythology. There's no real evidence for God. and all this planned creation and purpose is just folklore.

 

[Valjean]

1. I don't know your stand in terms of beliefs and therefore I wouldn't know how to address you.
2. Don't pretend to understand the topic just because you've read some articles on religion and you think you know better looking at the ideology you are bring up
3. A good programmer designs a bug free program, yet there are always bugs. The good programmer always find ways to eliminate those bugs. God never created or engineered sin. rules were set, and they were broken, now for God to be just, the stipulated punishment should apply. But out of love, he then have to go out of his way to justify creation by paying the stipulated punishment. is it clear?

God could have designed a sinless world.
Rules were broken? What rules? These rules are mythology; part of a larger, mythological narrative of God, intentional design and purpose. There is no evidence of any of this.

 

[Spice]

But this is all mythology. There's no real evidence for God. and all this planned creation and purpose is just folklore.

True. But there is a useful purpose to mythological tales while humankind evolves in its understandings. We are but "children" of the universe. Stories can be comforting.