If money is the root of all evil.............

[Riverwolf]

It only has value because we feel it does.

You mean because we all agree it does.

Your experience with money must be very different from mine. I suppose even love could be viewed as evil, since it sometimes inspires foul deeds. I can see that useful things can be used for wrong purposes, but to dwell on that is limiting.

I'm a video/computer gamer. I belong to the lower Middle-class. That should tell you what my experience with money is.

If not, you should learn about the Atari 2600 adaptation of E.T, and remember that it still cost $60 when it came out. That is the microcosm of everything wrong with the industry. Once you learn about it, or if you already know about it, just know that even today many companies seem to have forgotten about it, and continue to make that same mistake again and again every month, even though it's one of the primary reasons why a company or developer may go under.

Tis no fairy tale. Money is used daily by billions of people to accomplish everything from procuring food to observing the stars.

And I prefer to focus on the food and the stars, not the object by which they are obtained. "...like a finger, pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory." -Bruce Lee.

What you described was an economy where everybody trusted everybody with their money, everybody trusted that the prices they were paying were fair and just, and allows people to live happily, and without which would be misery. But I don't have much money at all, but I certainly wouldn't describe my life as miserable. Not to mention, I'm in college. Therefore, every semester I'm robbed by the textbook companies, who far overcharge for their books. (Luckily, many teachers are no longer using those books, but writing their own.)

Not to mention your post was full of fluff and beautiful words, to the point where it was nigh unintelligible.

What a miserable existence that sounds like! To work grudgingly is a low existence indeed. Money is not the culprit, but rather their choices in life. A change in their world view is needed.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the worldview of most American workers. It seems like a stereotype to hate our jobs and to hate work, and that we wouldn't work except for the fact that we need to in order to put dinner on our tables.

I don't think money itself is the culprit, but greed for it is. I neither hate money, nor do I love it: I'm apathetic about it.

 

[dawny0826]

That's because the Jesus they want in government only cares about gay people and fetuses. Not the Jesus that wants to help out the poor.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm simply pointing out that little hypocrisy that exists.

There's also perspective to consider. I'm an American that hates big government and I resent that I'm forced to support social programs that I believe are in terrible need of reform.

Conservatives may very well may be greedy pigs but they're kinder to people in my income tax bracket which does free people like me to invest in philanthropic projects locally - subsequently improving the lives of and empowering the underprivileged witin my own community.

 

[Revoltingest]

You mean because we all agree it does.

For money to work, agreement is important too.

I'm a video/computer gamer. I belong to the lower Middle-class. That should tell you what my experience with money is.

Money doesn't cause your discomfort, but rather the disparity between what you earn & what you want. Even a barter system would find you wanting.

If not, you should learn about the Atari 2600 adaptation of E.T, and remember that it still cost $60 when it came out. That is the microcosm of everything wrong with the industry. Once you learn about it, or if you already know about it, just know that even today many companies seem to have forgotten about it, and continue to make that same mistake again and again every month, even though it's one of the primary reasons why a company or developer may go under.

Business failure isn't caused by money. Since money is a measure of economic resource, failure is the result of mismanagement of resources...as measured in monetary units.

And I prefer to focus on the food and the stars, not the object by which they are obtained. "...like a finger, pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory." -Bruce Lee.

Money is what allows astronomers to buy telescopes, instead of having to barter their services to an optical company which doesn't need astronomical observation.

What you described was an economy where everybody trusted everybody with their money, everybody trusted that the prices they were paying were fair and just, and allows people to live happily, and without which would be misery. But I don't have much money at all, but I certainly wouldn't describe my life as miserable. Not to mention, I'm in college. Therefore, every semester I'm robbed by the textbook companies, who far overcharge for their books. (Luckily, many teachers are no longer using those books, but writing their own.)

Overcharging is not the fault of money. Were you to barter whatever service you offer to a textbook company, you could just as easily be overcharged. But the reason you think your textbooks are overpriced is a complex issue, involving your school, professors, authors, publishers & taxing authorities. Besides, how can you be robbed when you choose to go to a school which requires these books? It's OK to not like the price of books, but it is weak to feel a victim of one's own choices.

Not to mention your post was full of fluff and beautiful words, to the point where it was nigh unintelligible.

Flattery will get you nowhere with me.....well....maybe a little.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the worldview of most American workers. It seems like a stereotype to hate our jobs and to hate work, and that we wouldn't work except for the fact that we need to in order to put dinner on our tables.

Bad choices & poor attitudes are not the fault of money. But imagine an economy where you had to barter your video game design
skills to a farmer for some bacon....or to a miller for flour...or to your dentist for a filling. Money begins to look pretty convenient, eh?

I don't think money itself is the culprit, but greed for it is. I neither hate money, nor do I love it: I'm apathetic about it.

Greed existed long before money. But greed is not the problem either...tis dishonesty, stupidity, sloth, meanness & predation which cause societal ills.
When greed is just rational self interest, it is a great force for good.

 

[dallas1125]

It also says that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter Heaven, and (in Luke 21) praises the person who gives so much she doesn't even have enough money to live on, apparently holding her up as an example to follow.

Yeah. Cause the rich man has his heart focused on money rather than his fellow man. Its not that a rich man cant make it, its that he is blinded.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah. Cause the rich man has his heart focused on money rather than his fellow man. Its not that a rich man cant make it, its that he is blinded.

Rich people, like the faithful, are a diverse group. Wealth no more makes them blind than spirituality makes
anyone dumb. But if blindness were an inevitable consequence, I hope to be really blind in a few years.

 

[ninerbuff]

Jesus preached that we should be caring and kind. Christians should be generous and help their fellow man, yes. The government though has no right to do it for us.

Also, I dont think Jesus meant all rich man cant get into heaven, it was supposed to be that the rich man has placed his heart more into the money than he had into his fellow man and god. Basically, it was a lesson on dont be greedy, not dont be rich.

The government also has no right to put it in the pockets of those who are already rich, yet the so called "christian" GOP finds ways to keep the rich getting richer.

 

[Revoltingest]

The government also has no right to put it in the pockets of those who are already rich, yet the so called "christian" GOP finds ways to keep the rich getting richer.

Democrats are no slouches at lining their own pockets either.
Quiz time: Who is the richest Congressman?
Partisanship is the mind killer.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yeah. Cause the rich man has his heart focused on money rather than his fellow man. Its not that a rich man cant make it, its that he is blinded.

I don't think that's it. Over and over again, the Gospels are very hard on wealth itself... not just the risk of money-blindness, but actual money itself. Take Luke 6:

24 “But woe to you who are rich,
for you have already received your comfort.
25 Woe to you who are well fed now,
for you will go hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now,
for you will mourn and weep.
26 Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you,
for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

Or Matthew 6:

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Personally, I think Jesus' message is one of asceticism. He presents a choice between reward on Earth and reward in Heaven, and makes the two things out to be mutually exclusive. He doesn't say "if you're wealthy, you have to be careful that you aren't blinded by your money to the point that you lose sight of God"; he says, effectively, "if you're wealthy, you are blinded by money and you have lost sight of God."

I think this fits into the larger message of the Gospels quite well. Jesus presents an extreme faith that, apparently by design, exists on the fringes of society, not in the places of Earthly wealth and power. In fact, it presents the reader with a choice between Heavenly wealth and Earthly wealth, and repeats over and over again that choosing one means rejecting the other.

Also, what possible purpose could wealth serve?

Is it for one's own comfort? Jesus doesn't seem too keen on that, as illustrated by the passages above.

Is it to guard for the future? Jesus doesn't seem to be too keen on that, either:

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

... it seems like Jesus implies that saving or storing for the future shows a lack of trust in God.

On top of this, every dollar that you have in your pocket is a dollar that you could've used for some good cause but didn't.

So what's left? Why would a Christian need lots of money?

 

[slowbreath]

Then why do most conservatives resist "sharing" it with the less fortunate? Isn't that what jesus did? All I see is that the Repubs in office hoarding more and more money for the rich, while they claim themselves as being religious at the same time. Oxymoron no?

how is hoarding money and being religious an oxymorn?

 

[Katzpur]

It also says that it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter Heaven...

There is some interesting symbolism attached to that one. I'll have to see if I can find it for you.

and (in Luke 21) praises the person who gives so much she doesn't even have enough money to live on, apparently holding her up as an example to follow.

If she were LDS, she could pay a full tithe and never have to worry about having a roof over her head or food to eat, because the Church would make sure that didn't happen.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There is some interesting symbolism attached to that one. I'll have to see if I can find it for you.

I hope it's not the old story about how "eye of the needle" means some gate in the walls of Jerusalem, because every indication I've been able to find suggests that story was made up.

If she were LDS, she could pay a full tithe and never have to worry about having a roof over her head or food to eat, because the Church would make sure that didn't happen.

But there's more to it than that - as I mentioned in my reply to dallas1125, it's not just a matter of money; it seems that Jesus also objects to Earthly comfort.

 

[no-body]

Is a great book only pieces of paper sewn together? Is a great painting only a blank canvas with paint smeared upon it. Of course not.
Similarly, money is what it represents & how it functions, not its mundane components. Money is free exchange between people,
unfettered by the impracticality of bartering.....it is a shared system of trusting that each will honor the assigned value....it is what
allows grand endeavors with voluntary participants.....it is in effect, freedom, liberty & success!

that's just like, your opinion, man.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Then why do most conservatives resist "sharing" it with the less fortunate? Isn't that what jesus did? All I see is that the Repubs in office hoarding more and more money for the rich, while they claim themselves as being religious at the same time. Oxymoron no?

Short answer = Greed Selfishness Elitism Apathy and Ignorance.

 

[Revoltingest]

that's just like, your opinion, man.

Like, that's all I ever have, man.
I don't have any truth & I'm not big on facts.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Like, that's all I ever have, man.
I don't have any truth & I'm not big on facts.

:yoda: wise you are...

 

[Revoltingest]

:yoda: wise you are...

I prefer to be called "ignorant", ie, unencumbered by over-reliance on facts.

I do one of those face palm thingies when posters wield the word "ignorant" as an epithet.
There's nothing wrong with not knowing, because it can be fixed by improved understanding.
Contrast that with having faith in one's opinions as fact....now, that's a hard conditiont cure.

 

[freethinker44]

I'm assuming you think you're referring to a biblical teaching. If you are, you're wrong. The Bible never says that money is the root of all evil. It says the love of money is the root of all evil.

I was referring to Luke 18:18 to 18:25.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Then why do most conservatives resist "sharing" it with the less fortunate? Isn't that what jesus did? All I see is that the Repubs in office hoarding more and more money for the rich, while they claim themselves as being religious at the same time. Oxymoron no?

Has anyone corrected this yet? The love of money is the root of all evil. I Timothy 6:10

 

[freethinker44]

Has anyone corrected this yet? The love of money is the root of all evil. I Timothy 6:10

It has been corrected but does it really change anything?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It has been corrected but does it really change anything?

Has anyone bothered to look at the charitable giving of Conservatives vs. Liberals?