Apostle John
“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
When I wrote non-Christians, I meant today, those that don’t follow the Lord Jesus Christ and the Bible.’destroyed forever’ is interesting, I’ll look up the Hebrew for that.
I go by strength of evidence.
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If there is a hell, what percentage of humans should go there?
- Thread starter Sedim Haba
- Start date
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
@Trailblazer
As a Baha'i I have a question about your religion. If Hell is just the remoteness of God, then it would make sense that God is the source of all good that happens to a person. Would you say that God is the source of happiness? And if so, how can the atheists and anti-theists still achieve happiness without God? And is it possible to achieve peace, serenity and other good feelings without God, as certain religions have already demonstrated, like Buddhism?
As a Baha'i I have a question about your religion. If Hell is just the remoteness of God, then it would make sense that God is the source of all good that happens to a person. Would you say that God is the source of happiness? And if so, how can the atheists and anti-theists still achieve happiness without God? And is it possible to achieve peace, serenity and other good feelings without God, as certain religions have already demonstrated, like Buddhism?
Thank you for your reply.
At Matthew 25:31-34,37 we do know those who Jesus' counts as figurative ' sheep' are saved (delivered / rescued) - Rev. 7:14,9; Isaiah 26:20.
The good news (gospel) of God's Kingdom (thy kingdom come... ) would be declared world wide to the -> nations - Matt. 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Since new people are born each day, then it is Not to every single person but definitely to the: nations - Psalm 2
And because Jesus reads hearts and we can't, then Jesus could choose people with right-hearted leanings at his Glory Time to be a 'sheep'.
Besides ' destroyed forever ' (Psalms 92:7; 104:35; Prov. 2:21-22) I find Jeremiah mentions: perpetual sleep - Jeremiah 51:39 and verse 57.
Apostle John
“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
Thank you, The separation of the sheep and the goats judgment is at the end of the Tribulation. The Tribulation will have an impact on people‘s hearts who go through it. The Jeremiah verses are interesting and wonder the spiritual interpretation.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Resurrection Day means something different for members of the Baha'i Faith.
“The Day of Judgment is also the Day of Resurrection, of the raising of the dead. St. Paul in his First Epistle to the Corinthians says:—
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.—I Cor. xv, 51–53.
As to the meaning of these passages about the raising of the dead, Bahá’u’lláh writes in the Book of Íqán:—
… By the terms “life” and “death,” spoken of in the scriptures, is intended the life of faith and the death of unbelief. The generality of the people, owing to their failure to grasp the meaning of these words, rejected and despised the person of the Manifestation, deprived themselves of the light of His divine guidance, and refused to follow the example of that immortal Beauty. …
… Even as Jesus said: “Ye must be born again” [John iii, 7]. Again He saith: “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” [John iii, 5–6]. The purpose of these words is that whosoever in every dispensation is born of the Spirit and is quickened by the breath of the Manifestation of Holiness, he verily is of those that have attained unto “life” and “resurrection” and have entered into the “paradise” of the love of God. And whosoever is not of them, is condemned to “death” and “deprivation,” to the “fire” of unbelief, and to the “wrath” of God. …
In every age and century, the purpose of the Prophets of God and their chosen ones hath been no other but to affirm the spiritual significance of the terms “life,” “resurrection,” and “judgment.” … Wert thou to attain to but a dewdrop of the crystal waters of divine knowledge, thou wouldst readily realize that true life is not the life of the flesh but the life of the spirit. For the life of the flesh is common to both men and animals, whereas the life of the spirit is possessed only by the pure in heart who have quaffed from the ocean of faith and partaken of the fruit of certitude. This life knoweth no death, and this existence is crowned by immortality. Even as it hath been said: “He who is a true believer liveth both in this world and in the world to come.” If by “life” be meant this earthly life, it is evident that death must needs overtake it.—Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 114, 118, 120–21.
According to the Bahá’í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.
Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun and will last as long as the present world cycle continues. It will continue when all traces of the present civilization will have been wiped off the surface of the globe.”
Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, pp. 220-222
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So do I.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, I would say that.
I would not necessarily say that God is the source of all happiness. It depends upon what kind of happiness you are talking about. People who live for worldly things might be happy but they are not spiritually happy.
I think God is one source of spiritual happiness, but God is not the source of worldly happiness. The material world is the source of worldly happiness.
Peace and serenity sounds like spiritual happiness. I think that atheists and anti-theists can achieve spiritual happiness without God.
However, I believe there is a lot more to life than happiness, there is a higher purpose.
Because God created a universe with people who do these crimes.
Because we observe these people in reality. If believers are correct in trusting the Bible then that God is accountable for His creation. God must have wanted everything as it is, including murderers and rapists. If God didn't then all He has to do was create humans with a consistenty high moral sense. he didn't.
Yeah, you amongst billions of other believers who disagree with you. None of you believers can present any better argument than the next, so what you believe is irrelevant to we observers. What we care about is extraordinary evidence that is available for anyone to see and understand without special religious assumptions. There is none. That means it IS your dilemma, as you are posting here for some reason. You aren't on a website all by yourself, right? You know others will respond and you will respond right back, so you have skin in the game whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So who made up about the apple?
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
You don't find that this conflicts with Baha'i teachings about the afterlife?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
@Trailblazer do you agree that the Lazarus that Jesus resurrected had burial wrappings on his dead body?
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Hello, I see you are here. It's 5:00 Pacific time. I'm waiting at Zoom
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Okay, I'm coming. As you can see, I am being pummeled by posts here.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
I await your pleasure
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why would it be God's fault that people choose to commit crimes.
God also created a universe where people choose to do good things. Do you ever give God credit for those good things?
If believers are correct in trusting the Bible and the Baha'i Writings then they would know that God gave man free will to choose so God is accountable for what people choose. God does not want murderers and rapists, people choose to be murderers and rapists. God does not have to create humans with a consistently high moral sense. Humans are obligated to develop their own moral sense. That is one reason we have to go through this life.
Why would it matter if other believers agree with me? The truth is the truth whether people believe it or not.
There is none that you can see, but that does not mean there is none.
It is not a game if win or lose for me. I just respond to what is posted to me.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't know.
The forbidden fruit is commonly thought of as an apple, but the Bible never actually says what fruit it was. Regardless, the effects of Eve and Adam eating it were fatal.
Forbidden Fruit — Compassion International
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I don't think what I said conflicts with Baha'i teachings about the afterlife.
I said:
Peace and serenity sounds like spiritual happiness. I think that atheists and anti-theists can achieve spiritual happiness without God.
However, I believe there is a lot more to life than happiness, there is a higher purpose.
Atheists and anti-theists might experience spiritual happiness in this life, but they will not achieve their higher purpose, which is to know and love God.
That means that when they get to the afterlife they will be up the creek without a paddle, because they won't have what they need to get up the river.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't know, but I don't agree that Jesus resurrected Lazarus from the dead.
cataway
Well-Known Member
have you ever read and studied the bible ? i get the feeling all you have done is listen to some one talk about it
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
ok, so is it that you and/or Bahallua do not believe that account in the Bible? Just as a slight reminder, it does say that Lazarus came out of the tomb with his burial wrappings still on him. The Bible account says he was resurrected (brought back to life) in the flesh -- his original body -- I don't ask you to believe it, I'm just telling you what it says.