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If there is a hell, what percentage of humans should go there?
- Thread starter Sedim Haba
- Start date
If death on Earth does Not end that means sin will exist forever. Sin is the cause of death.
Isaiah also wrote about sickness coming to an end at Isaiah 33:24 when No one will say, " I am sick....." No sickness equals perfect health.
By Jesus destroying death that means there will be No more sin on Earth. No more sin equals: No more death - Isaiah 25:8 B (....earth)
Since reproduction on Earth would cease once Earth was populated, if death continued, sin would continue. - Genesis 1:28
Jesus has the keys to unlock death for us - Rev. 1:18 ; 2nd Tim. 1:10
Grave's power is Not permanent - Hosea 13:14
Death dies according to Rev.20:14
Thus, No more spiritual death and No more physical death.
Some 'sheep' (a little flock) to be resurrected to heavenly spirit life - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10
Whereas, ' other sheep ' can gain everlasting life on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
Years ago I was told that if you cut the apple in half the seeds make a 5 point star and that is why the apple was chosen
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
What joke is over?
Why can everyone can get on with being decent, respectful and inclusive after the subject is dead?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Why?
When one says ' afterlife ' that means: more alive after death than before death.
That conflicts with the Bible's resurrection promise.- Acts 24:15
Conflicts because the dead are sleeping and need to be awakened (resurrected ) from death's deep sleep - Hosea 13:14; Rev. 1:18
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Well, causing infinite suffering for an infinite amount of time for a being that made finite mistakes might be the reason...
I find Resurrection (Not afterlife) is for both the righteous and unrighteous - Acts 24:15
Any atheists/ anti-theists that fall into that unrighteous category can be Resurrected back to life on Earth.
Then, they can have access to life's water for free if they choose to become righteous in God's eyes.
The ^ above ^ is a man-made false teaching outside of Scripture but just taught as being Scripture.
Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' (Not pain) in death - John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Enemy death comes to a final end - Hosea 13:14; 1st Cor. 15:24-26
Enemy death ends up in that symbolic ' second death ' for death and the grave - Rev. 20:14
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Oddly enough I fully agree with you. Just for completely different reasons. Death is like sleep, and resurrection is inevitable. I just don't believe it because the Bible says it. But it's great that my beliefs are supported by scripture!
Maybe I am a Christian after all...
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Matthew 22
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[b]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”
33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
Acts 24:15
15 and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
Acts 2
31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.
Acts 4
4 The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people. 2 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people, proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.
Acts 17
18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.”
Acts 23
6 Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, “My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees. I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead.”
1 Corinthians 15
12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
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So what is the resurrection of the dead? It is not the resurrection of dead bodies from their graves.
Clearly, the body that will be raised is a spiritual body, not a physical body.
The physical body that is buried is perishable because it is mortal, the spiritual body that is raised imperishable because it is immortal.
The physical body (flesh and blood) cannot inherit (exist in) the kingdom of God which is in heaven, because there is nothing physical in heaven.
And that is why the dead physical body will be raised as a spiritual body which is imperishable.
That is what verse 52 means when it says "we will be changed."
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1 Corinthians 15
The Resurrection Body
35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Mortality is the cause of physical death, sin is the cause of spiritual death.
No, physical death and spiritual death are not connected in any way.
Spiritual death will end eventually, when the Kingdom of God comes to Earth, but physical death will always exist because God created the physical body to be mortal, not immortal.
No, nobody will live on Earth in a physical body after their physical body dies and decomposes. I just explained what the resurrection of the dead means in this post:
If there is a hell, what percentage of humans should go there?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The Bible does not say that anyone will be resurrected back to physical life and live on Earth forever.
I explained what the resurrection of the dead means in this post, using Bible verses to back me up.
If there is a hell, what percentage of humans should go there?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I explained what the resurrection of the dead means according to the Bible in this post.Oddly enough I fully agree with you. Just for completely different reasons. Death is like sleep, and resurrection is inevitable. I just don't believe it because the Bible says it. But it's great that my beliefs are supported by scripture!
If there is a hell, what percentage of humans should go there?
This is congruent with what Baha'is believe happens when we die. The physical body dies and the soul leaves the body and goes to the spiritual world where it takes on a spiritual body. Where the Bible says we will all be transformed it means that the physical body will be transformed into a spiritual body that will never die.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not believe that God sends anyone to hell infinite suffering for an infinite amount of time.
In fact, I don't believe that God sends anyone to hell at all.
I believe people create their own hell by the choices they make, and I believe that some people would rather be in hell than heaven because they hate God so they don't want to be in heaven with God.
That's their choice.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
And some human spirits can choose to cross over into the spirit world or remain in the physical world, or return to the physical world from the spirit world. Of course, there are spirits who get stuck in the physical world and are unable to cross over, and they will need the assistance of a medium such as myself.
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Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
I was thinking of this one, too.
"To 'get to heaven' as you say is dependent on two things — faith in the Manifestation of God in His Day, in other words in this age in Bahá'u'lláh; and good deeds, in other words living to the best of our ability a noble life and doing unto others as we would be done by. But we must always remember that our existence and everything we have or ever will have is dependent upon the mercy of God and His bounty, and therefore He can accept into His heaven, which is really nearness to Him, even the lowliest if He pleases. We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, January 12, 1957)
Various, "Lights of Guidance", 13.705.1
I don't think this means that those who abhor God, or the Holy Spirit could get out of there, because Shoghi Effendi says here "We always have the hope of receiving His mercy if we reach out for it." Would those who abhor the light reach out for it? I think those who abhor the light are rare, it would be hard to find such people. We also can't know ourselves who these people are, only God knows.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Thanks Duane, that is one of my favorite quotes.
Here's my answer to the poll (although I didn't vote):
If there is a Hell, as popularlay described, and if anything larger than zero percent of humans go there, why the heck would you worship it's CREATOR?
My point is that ordinary human ideas and instincts about accountability don't work for God. If God exists, is all-powerful and benevolent ─ such claims are commonly made for [him] ─ then [he]'s known for the last 14 bn years that I was about to type this sentence with these letters, these little corrections of my typing, and exactly how and why my brain is doing this.I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
What joke is over?
Why can everyone can get on with being decent, respectful and inclusive after the subject is dead?
With such a god, NOTHING in the universe can happen contrary to [his] intention.
When you die, then, the only entity responsible for your crimes is God. All you ever did, thinking it was your own will and your own decisions, were made for you as you acted out what God had perfectly foreseen.
So when you die, and your part in the game of acting out God's intentions is finished, and God's plan includes a post-mortal you, why would [he] punish you? And now that you no longer have to act out [his] plan for the universe, where you lived when alive, and given (as i said) that God is benevolent, , well, there's nothing punishable in your past conduct, since it's [his] conduct too, and there's no reason not to relieve you of your vices and irritating habits and all other negative aspects of human life and set you up to have an agreeable afterlife. In other words, cure you of the negatives in your human condition.
Meanwhile, some of us still alive will be in favor of decency, respect and inclusion, and others will be Republicans, and so on, and life will go on.