If there is a life after death.....

[Little Dragon]

No .. it just sounds like a person who "cuts off their nose to spite their face".

I do not understand your response. Can you elucidate?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Yes. But the attitude M_I expressed is not consistent with Abrahamic theology.

Yes it is .. it's just that many people misunderstand, and are misled by satan.
i.e. you must believe Jesus is God or if you don't believe in Muhammad etc.

Abrahamics concern themselves very much with the commandments of their specific creeds. Right and wrong aren't decided by conscience but by compliance with those commandments.

That is only what you perceive .. and you see no connection between the two?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I do not understand your response. Can you elucidate?

No .. it doesn't make sense to me.
Can YOU elaborate?

 

[Little Dragon]

Yes it is .. it's just that many people misunderstand, and are misled by satan.

Satan misleads people? You mean someone is under the control of Satan if they disagree with your religious theology and ideology?
Interesting way of seeing things. Illustrates perfectly the potential danger of religious faith. imo.

 

[Little Dragon]

No .. it doesn't make sense to me.
Can YOU elaborate?

Er I don't know how to make myself clearer.

I don't want or need heaven or hell, but if there is an afterlife and my loved ones are in any kind of hell, then that's were I want to be too, no matter what my standing with your or any other God is.

What is difficult to understand?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't believe in hell either, unless the afterlife is lonely and dark for some, because they were such colossal jerks in life.

That kind of hell might exist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't want or need heaven or hell..

I do not understand a person who would choose to suffer, if they could avoid it..

..but if there is an afterlife and my loved ones are in any kind of hell, then that's were I want to be too..

That, to me, means that if your loved ones have done bad stuff, then you want to suffer like them,
even if you haven't done anything to deserve it.
Easy to say .. but not easy to do.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Satan misleads people?

Without a doubt, many of us are "easily led"..

You mean someone is under the control of Satan if they disagree with your religious theology and ideology?

I didn't say that.
That is just your way of burying your head in the sand.

 

[Little Dragon]

That, to me, means that if your loved ones have done bad stuff, then you want to suffer like them,
even if you haven't done anything to deserve it.

Correct.
How can I live in heaven knowing they are in hell alone, without me?
Suffering unspeakable torment.

There is no choice.

 

[Little Dragon]

I didn't say that.
That is just your way of burying your head in the sand.

Then I apologize, for making that inference.

 

[Little Dragon]

Without a doubt, many of us are "easily led"..

What is the agency by which Satan leads others astray?

 

[Little Dragon]

Easy to say .. but not easy to do.

I wouldn't know what to expect, I will take the risk. If there is some supernatural world outside of this one, then I will learn or relearn it's rules as I did with those of this reality.

 

[blü 2]

I’m a retired psychologist and came into faith late(ish) in life (raised atheist, in a secular environment). Consciousness and self-awareness is still the “self” to me today. Our consciousness and sense of self cannot outlive our bodies, I agree.
But the “soul”, to me, is not our sense of self. The soul is “spirit” and free from self.

As for giving proof/evidence of my faith being “true”; I do not think that possible. I’d say that faith is seldom genuinely passed on from one person to another. Instead, faith is born through one’s own interpretation of personal experiences and is nurtured via practice of the mission it commits one to. Unlike logic or information, faith is simply not a matter of “truths” to be proven by one individual to another.

Humbly,
Hermit

Just so I understand, you're saying the soul is NOT self-aware?

And does not preserve one's earthly identity, one's 'self', in any sense?

If so, what's a soul's link to its person that the person should care about?

 

[blü 2]

@Saved by grace 2

Your post #173 above appears to have lost your reply somehow.

The question was, What definition of "truth" do you use, such that a person can be "the truth"?

 

[YoursTrue]

Correct.
How can I live in heaven knowing they are in hell alone, without me?
Suffering unspeakable torment.

There is no choice.

I will just say the concept of hell is grossly misinterpreted by many.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Correct.
How can I live in heaven knowing they are in hell alone, without me?
Suffering unspeakable torment.

There is no choice.

..so those in prison had no choice, in as much as they had to commit crimes?
You are merely denying reality.

A mother whose son becomes a heroin addict, for example, grieves for her son..
..but she will not necessarily follow in his footsteps.
It is senseless to suggest that "she has no choice" because she loves him.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What is the agency by which Satan leads others astray?

The same agency as any other person that leads one astray..
..the power of suggestion.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Just so I understand, you're saying the soul is NOT self-aware?

And does not preserve one's earthly identity, one's 'self', in any sense?

If so, what's a soul's link to its person that the person should care about?

If I were to try to put it into [the limited framework of] words, I’d say that the spiritual, divine part …of “universal consciousness” if you will, that I believe dwells within you while your body still experiences -that which could be called “your” soul- is what brings back your unique experience of what it was like to have been [you]. Or put differently; while your being is limited both in space and time, the insight and wisdom acquired through the experience of your being, is not.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Little Dragon]

A mother whose son becomes a heroin addict, for example, grieves for her son..
..but she will not necessarily follow in his footsteps.
It is senseless to suggest that "she has no choice" because she loves him.

What would be the point of her becoming a heroin addict too?
That is not analogous to what I've said here.

 

[Little Dragon]

The same agency as any other person that leads one astray..
..the power of suggestion.

What suggestion? Who's suggestion?