If there is a life after death.....

[Little Dragon]

..so those in prison had no choice, in as much as they had to commit crimes?
You are merely denying reality.

In the religions of men, one can be sent to hell for the crime of disbelief alone.
So, forget your prisons and your moralistic presumptions for one second.
Imagine that is the only crime my kith and kin are in hell for.

 

[muhammad_isa]

In the religions of men, one can be sent to hell for the crime of disbelief alone.

It is all a matter of interpretation.
G-d is not a person, but most of us cannot think outside the box,
so imagine a scenario where 'G-d the person' literally punishes us [ tortures us ]
because He's angry or something.

I see it as a warning, as like a parent would warn their child..
eg. Don't do that ! If you do, something bad will happen.

That is, we are the ones that inflict punishment on ourselves.

..and then you say "How come we punish ourselves just because we don't believe?"
Reason: we turn away from righteousness and incline towards evil .. but we can't see it.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What suggestion? Who's suggestion?

Does it matter?
Do you think you are only influenced by your own mind, and nothing else??

 

[Bird123]

You are the one who needs to talk to the Atheists. They will tell you they do not believe that God exists, so God is not guiding them since a nonexistent God cannot guide anyone.

Religion does not create a WE against THEY.
You are the only one who is creating a WE against THEY, and you do that whenever you denigrate people who have religious beliefs.
More correctly stated, it is YOU against THEY and THEY are the religious believers. Too bad you are too blind to see it.

With God, it is an US, regardless of any beliefs one has.

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light."

('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)

How can you say in one breath God doesn't guide atheist then in the next breath say God does with Love and Kindness? Guiding is not with holy books. Can you really not see any other way??

Very Faulty Math on your part.

If I state the Truth and you do not like the Truth, Any reaction of feeling you or anyone else has is created not by me. If you feel pain, pain is a sign something is wrong? What could that be? Truth must conform to whatever you want it to be and it doesn't.

I see all God's children which does include atheists, as someone Special. Since everyone will Discover it all in time, Why should I Blame, Judge, Condemn or value those petty things mankind holds so dear. Have you seen those petty things so long that you expect it or accept it is everyone?

If God Loves all, why can't you? Why label people learning through their choices as evil? Will anyone label you as evil because of your choices? Isn't it the same thing?

Free choice is a Big part of God's system. Why would God really have anger or wrath when people are doing exactly what God wants?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Saved by grace 2]

Very good question, and I am not totally qualified to answer this thoroughly, but I will try. Jesus said he IS the Truth, and I believe we can understand it in this way.

He said he created all things, to accept that means that the world/universe that exists and that we live in, was designed by him. He established how things work and they,.i.e. sun moon, our atmosphere, the oceans, gravity, fire, etc. all of them were created by design and for purpose.

Proverbs 3:19-20 says "The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

NOW LET ME PLEASE INTERJECT to help understand my point!!
We humans were also created for a reason, with purpose, designed by God. But at the same time we have the ability/power to choose to obey or not. The results of our disobedience to God's design are hatred, murder, greed, theft, guilt, shame , regret and many more egregious things . And why because they are contrary to the way we are designed. But free will gets in the way of God 's design and the results are all the terrible things in this world.
Now Take a train for example, it is designed for a purpose to move materials, liquids , people etc, from one location to another. And although it is very powerful and can be very productive for society, that would drastically change if it jumped off the track designed for it move on. It then becomes useless to the point it can't function as it was originally designed. Not atleast until it GETS BACK ON TRACK

Why do I say all this, because he is emphasizing that there is No thought, belief, object, that is right, that is profitable, whether material or spiritual that he did not create. So then for anyone to say there are other beliefs, truths, objects that were somehow made by something or someone else, they are wrong. It is not truth, but a Lie, and regrettably all of us have chosen to do and believe things our way opposed to God's.

Jesus as creator Dictates Truth. Determines Truth. Anything is either counterfeit or in direct opposite to the Truth if it is against or opposite to what JESUS HAS SPOKEN. After all there is nothing that exists that was not created by him, so he alone establishes what is right and what is wrong. What is and what isn't. It is impossible for him to speak anything BUT TRUTH. Because by definition everything he speaks is his design and has it's origin in the one who created all living things.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

So let me get this right. Your God gave humanity "free will" and then finds that problematic because it interferes with his grand design? The same God who knew the outcome of every action and inaction that would ever be taken by every living thing, before they even existed. That he himself "created"?

That is not rational behaviour.

 

[Bird123]

Firstly, I have no idea what my fate will be .. I rely on G-d's Mercy.
Secondly, I don't expect to see 'top-level security prisoners' on the high-street,
so why should I expect to meet them in a life hereafter, unless I become one myself?

There is no need to rely on God's mercy. Why not? You are already living within God's Intelligence. It has never ever been about mercy or any of the petty things mankind values and have taught you to value.
God has no prisoners. God Fixes the problems instead of imprisoning the kiddies.

What is your fate? Like all God's children, you will learn until you Discover what the best choices really are. You will learn how to create a Heavenly state for yourself and others. In time, you will be Magnificent!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Saved by grace 2]

Yes, Our God created us with the ability to Choose him or ourselves. Our first parents according to scripture says clearly they chose their own desires opposed to God's Will. God is only getting started with Eternity (FOREVER) He designed us with Freewill to give us opportunity to choose to love him, serve him and live with him forever. This earth is essentially (not entirely) the place of Decision for all Humans. Where do you choose to spend forever......with God? or forever separated from God. To everyone who rejects God's grace, his free gift of salvation from their sins and this world, they will end up forever separated from God...They will receive exactly what they desire.........No GOD.

But to those who Believe and receive his Salvation thru Jesus Christ, this is their destiny.

Revelation 21:1-5
1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Bird123]

When I asked you to explain what you knew, nothing happened , as you'll recall.


And I asked you what real entity you intended to denote when you said "God", but you didn't know, you'll recall.


You never considered the various matters I put to you; your every effort was in protecting whatever it was ─ as I said, you never actually articulated it ─ that you were protecting.

So perhaps you should get your own position clear to yourself ─ to the point where you can clearly articulate it to others ─ before tut-tutting others about their particular views.

Do you really not Understand what I have been saying all along? Has it all really gone over your head? I have been doing nothing but explaining, pointing where you can Discover the answers for yourself. It stares you in the face!!!

I am placing Truth in the world. I am not protecting anything. Do whatever you choose with the truth.

I can not change Truth. I continue to Question everything and Learn more!! After all, I am a Hungry Student.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[muhammad_isa]

There is no need to rely on God's mercy.

I beg to differ .. we are all sinners .. and sin leads to suffering of ourselves and others.

God has no prisoners..

G-d is not a person.
We effectively imprison ourselves.

 

[blü 2]

Do you really not Understand what I have been saying all along?

Of course.

When it comes to specifics, you've been saying precisely nothing all along ─ a thing I've constantly pointed out to you, though you appear to do nothing with the knowledge.

I have been doing nothing but explaining, pointing where you can Discover the answers for yourself. It stares you in the face!!!

And as I've said in the past, discover WHAT answers? WHAT is the question to which this thing you speak of is the answer?

But you've never addressed the questions that matter ─ such as

Does God exist in reality, the world external to the self which we know about via our senses?

If so, where in reality may God be found and interviewed?

If not then God exists only as a concept, notion, thing imagined in an individual brain, no?

Please explain those matters and make them clear to me, and please don't go wafting off into vague nothings as has been your past practice.

 

[Trailblazer]

How can you say in one breath God doesn't guide atheist then in the next breath say God does with Love and Kindness? Guiding is not with holy books. Can you really not see any other way??

God also guides people who are sincere seekers, those who make an effort for God and His Messengers.

“Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.””
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267

If I state the Truth and you do not like the Truth, Any reaction of feeling you or anyone else has is created not by me. If you feel pain, pain is a sign something is wrong? What could that be? Truth must conform to whatever you want it to be and it doesn't.

If I state the Truth and you do not like the Truth, Any reaction of feeling you or anyone else has is created not by me. If you feel pain, pain is a sign something is wrong? What could that be? Truth must conform to whatever you want it to be and it doesn't.

 

[Jimmy]

Well according to Christians we get a new body in heaven wherever that may be. Haha

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Maybe a better question is can there be life after this one is over. By 'this one' I mean can a person who dies ever resume his life again?

No, according to both the definitions of "life" and "dead".

 

[Little Dragon]

To everyone who rejects God's grace, his free gift of salvation from their sins and this world, they will end up forever separated from God...They will receive exactly what they desire.........No GOD.

Good. Suits me. Enjoy your God.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Good. Suits me. Enjoy your God.

In my opinion, we don't need to believe in the Abrahamic God in order to be moral people or to experience peace in the afterlife. In fact, I don't believe in the static location of a heaven or hell, and I reject the notion that we sin against this God and hence deserve to be condemned to hell for all eternity. As a former Christian, I learned to let go of what I consider the fearmongering tactics of Christianity (fear God, sinning against God, going to hell). And once I did that, my mental health and emotional well-being significantly improved. It was a slow process of detoxing from a lifetime of Christian indoctrination, but I finally experienced inner peace in my life, which is something I never experienced as a Christian. For the record, I was a devout evangelical Christian for thirty years and genuinely believed in God for a decade before I converted to Christianity at the age of seventeen. I was also a street preacher and an evangelical team leader for many years, while I was a Christian as well. I was deeply indoctrinated in Christianity, so it was difficult for me to be freed of it.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, according to both the definitions of "life" and "dead".

No, a person who dies can never 'resume his life in this world' again since their physical body is dead.
A physical body is needed to live in this world, and once dead, the physical body remains dead.

 

[Trailblazer]

In my opinion, we don't need to believe in the Abrahamic God in order to be moral people or to experience peace in the afterlife. In fact, I don't believe in the static location of a heaven or hell, and I reject the notion that we sin against this God and hence deserve to be condemned to hell for all eternity. As a former Christian, I learned to let go of what I consider the fearmongering tactics of Christianity (fear God, sinning against God, going to hell). And once I did that, my mental health and emotional well-being significantly improved. It was a slow process of detoxing from a lifetime of Christian indoctrination, but I finally experienced inner peace in my life, which is something I never experienced as a Christian. For the record, I was a devout evangelical Christian for thirty years and genuinely believed in God for a decade before I converted to Christianity at the age of seventeen. I was also a street preacher and an evangelical team leader for many years, while I was a Christian as well. I was deeply indoctrinated in Christianity, so it was difficult for me to be freed of it.

I am so happy to see you are back!

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe a better question is can there be life after this one is over. By 'this one' I mean can a person who dies ever resume his life again?

I believe that there will be another life after this life is over, but it will not be in this world. It will be in the spiritual world.

A person who dies can never 'resume his life in this world' again since their physical body is dead.
A physical body is needed to live in this world, and once dead, the physical body remains dead.

 

[Little Dragon]

In my opinion, we don't need to believe in the Abrahamic God in order to be moral people or to experience peace in the afterlife. In fact, I don't believe in the static location of a heaven or hell, and I reject the notion that we sin against this God and hence deserve to be condemned to hell for all eternity. As a former Christian, I learned to let go of what I consider the fearmongering tactics of Christianity (fear God, sinning against God, going to hell). And once I did that, my mental health and emotional well-being significantly improved. It was a slow process of detoxing from a lifetime of Christian indoctrination, but I finally experienced inner peace in my life, which is something I never experienced as a Christian. For the record, I was a devout evangelical Christian for thirty years and genuinely believed in God for a decade before I converted to Christianity at the age of seventeen. I was also a street preacher and an evangelical team leader for many years, while I was a Christian as well. I was deeply indoctrinated in Christianity, so it was difficult for me to be freed of it.

Then you have my respect, since what you've done involved great strength of character and the ability to set aside the mortal fear that was programmed into you, that my friend is an achievement few can boast of.
I was lucky, I was never indoctrinated as a child. My father was firmly against religious belief and I was privately educated until my teenage years. I didn't know what Easter was about until I was 16 I think. When my new school did Easter celebration stuff, which included the resurrection story.