If there is a life after death.....

[Sgt. Pepper]

Then you have my respect, since what you've done involved great strength of character and the ability to set aside the mortal fear that was programmed into you, that my friend is an achievement few can boast of.

Thank you for your kind sentiment, Little Dragon.

I was lucky, I was never indoctrinated as a child. My father was firmly against religious belief and I was privately educated until my teenage years. I didn't know what Easter was about until I was 16 I think. When my new school did Easter celebration stuff, which included the resurrection story.

I was indoctrinated from an early age and raised in a Christian home, but it was also an abusive home. I suffered abuse for many years at the hands of my parents while growing up. As I said earlier, I was deeply indoctrinated in Christianity and spent the majority of my life as a devout evangelical Christian. I read and extensively studied the Bible numerous times when I was a devout Christian, including extensive study of the Bible and Christian theology while I was training to be an evangelism team leader and street preacher. I also extensively studied the Bible and Christian theology while assisting my nephew in his extended theological studies to become an ordained minister. However, I read and studied it through the rose-colored glasses of my indoctrination.

It wasn't until I began to acknowledge my doubts about God and be honest with myself that I was able to read the Bible objectively, which ultimately contributed to my decision to abandon my faith in God and leave Christianity. Truth be told, I essentially studied my way out of believing the Bible, which led to further focused study and research in and out of Christianity. It ultimately led me to disavow my belief in God and my faith in Jesus. There were other circumstances that also contributed to my decision to abandon Christianity, but I basically studied my way out of believing in the Bible and God.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

One can always add, IMO. After any claim about the natures and wills of God(s) and their relationships with mankind. That will not violate rule 8.

In my opinion, it is plainly preaching and proselytizing whenever a Christian (or another Abrahamic theist) has the audacity to tell non-Christians that they are sinners and they need Jesus (or God) in order to be saved, or they state their personal interpretation of the Bible or any of their preferred spiritual beliefs as if they are definitive facts. I think that the difference between how I state my spiritual beliefs compared to some others is that whenever I state mine, I include "I believe," "I think," "in my opinion," or a similar phrase to indicate that what I've written are my beliefs, which is in accordance with Rule 8.

 

[Little Dragon]

I was indoctrinated from an early age and raised in a Christian home, but it was also an abusive home. I suffered abuse for many years at the hands of my parents while growing up.

Even more reason to respect you. I have met many whom have suffered at the hands of their parents and "carers" as children, most often in a police interview room or court waiting area, in a professional capacity, to advise and represent.
Childhood abuse is utterly destructive, but a hot fire tempers strong steel. If you can withstand all that and deal with indoctrination too, then you're of the strongest steel.

 

[Trailblazer]

As do I.

How can knowledge be defined?

knowledge

1a (1) : the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association

(2) : acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique

b (1) : the fact or condition of being aware of something

(2) : the range of one's information or understanding

c : the circumstance or condition of apprehending truth or fact through reasoning : cognition

d : the fact or condition of having information or of being learned
a person of unusual knowledge

2a : the sum of what is known : the body of truth, information, and principles acquired by humankind

Definition of KNOWLEDGE

Science can be proven right , and so the procces of evolution? Or?

Evolution is a fact as well as well as a theory.

Scientists continue to argue about particular explanations or mechanisms at work in specific instances of evolution – but the fact that evolution has occurred, and is still occurring, is undisputed.

Evolution as fact and theory - Wikipedia​

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I think that the spiritual world will seem strange to us since the only world we have ever known is the material world.
Going from this world into the spiritual world can be likened to a baby being born from the womb into this world, lots of surprises!
I think we will get used to it since we will have no choice but it is still scary to me since I don't like change, even a good change.

You are well aware of the years of personal experience that I have, so you know that I speak directly from these experiences. Having said that, it is my staunch belief that the spiritual world will be completely different from what many Christians and other Abrahamic theists believe it to be. I've no doubt that the majority of them will be in total shock and disarray once it's their time to die and crossover. I'm referring to the ones who profess to know what their afterlife will be like based on their preferred personal interpretation of what they believe the Bible says about the afterlife and spiritual world.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Evolution is a fact as well as well as a theory.

Scientists continue to argue about particular explanations or mechanisms at work in specific instances of evolution – but the fact that evolution has occurred, and is still occurring, is undisputed.

Evolution as fact and theory - Wikipedia​

I believe the theory of evolution is a more reasonable explanation for the origin of mankind than believing that a god created a man from dirt, breathed air into him and made him alive, created a woman from this man's rib, and that a talking serpent cunningly deceived both the man and the woman into disobeying the god by taking a bite of a forbidden fruit from a magical tree of life, or that the rest of mankind is supposedly descended from these two individuals. In comparison to these stories, believing that human beings evolved from an ancient primate ancestor doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.

 

[Little Dragon]

I'm referring to the ones who profess to know what their afterlife will be like based on their preferred personal interpretation of what they believe the Bible says about the afterlife and spiritual world

If you're still alive, I am not sure you're qualified to tell me what the afterlife entails!
If a ghost or other un-dead thing tells me about the afterlife (this has not happened) then I am going to take it's testimony largely at face value. I am going to listen!

 

[Little Dragon]

I believe the theory of evolution is a more reasonable explanation for the origin of mankind than believing that a god created a man from dirt, breathed air into him and made him alive, created a woman from this man's rib, and that a talking serpent cunningly deceived both the man and the woman into disobeying the god by taking a bite of a forbidden fruit from a magical tree of life, or that the rest of mankind is supposedly descended from these two individuals. In comparison to these stories, believing that human beings evolved from an ancient primate ancestor doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.

From an outsiders perspective. Like mine. The human centered vision of creation, by itself, irrespective of anything else, is highly suspicious!

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

If you're still alive, I am not sure you're qualified to tell me what the afterlife entails!

All I will say to this is that @Trailblazer understands what I meant.

If a ghost or other un-dead thing tells me about the afterlife (this has not happened) then I am going to take it's testimony largely at face value. I am going to listen!

That is one way to get your attention.

 

[Little Dragon]

All I will say to this is that @Trailblazer understands what I meant.

Oh I was referring to those that tell others what the afterlife involves, because of the Bible or Koran etc..
How would they know if it's correct or not?
I know what you meant!

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Oh I was referring to those that tell others what the afterlife involves, because of the Bible or Koran etc..
How would they know if it's correct or not?
I know what you meant!

Oh! That makes sense to me now. I'm sorry that I misunderstood you.

 

[Link]

Oh I was referring to those that tell others what the afterlife involves, because of the Bible or Koran etc..
How would they know if it's correct or not?
I know what you meant!

There's an interesting verse that says those who believe in the hereafter, believe in the Quran. You see it as people believing in the hereafter due to Quran or Bible.

It can be said those who believe in the unseen journey will be in contact with the holy spiritual guides and leaders on that journey and be accompanied by them.

The Quran helps clarify what and who they are seeing and how they are signs of God. The talk about spiritual lanterns that are missiles against Satanic forces for example.

 

[Link]

If you're still alive, I am not sure you're qualified to tell me what the afterlife entails!
If a ghost or other un-dead thing tells me about the afterlife (this has not happened) then I am going to take it's testimony largely at face value. I am going to listen!

Ghosts maybe surrounded by hell, but don't perceive it fully, just as people are surrounded by hell in this world and don't perceive it. The day that it will become fully manifest (reality of heaven and hell) is on day of judgment. There is a life between death and day of judgment. It can be said the punishments therein are minor compared to the day of judgment and the finality. Therefore just as people can be in hell in this world but not perceive it, and be happy, it's the same with souls deluding themselves after death.

The Quran shows that Satan is the master of evil people after death which means they are not yet awakened to the truth of his treachery and serve him.

 

[Trailblazer]

Therefore just as people can be in hell in this world but not perceive it, and be happy, it's the same with souls deluding themselves after death.

For these souls hell is heaven, in this life and in the afterlife, so they are happy in hell and they don't even know they are in hell.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

Indeed? Care to discuss how exactly?

Yes Sir, God is all Powerful, the scriptures say nothing is impossible with God,
Hebrews 1:3 says
Jesus is the sole expression of the glory of God [the Light-being, the out-raying or radiance of the divine], and He is the perfect imprint and very image of [God’s] nature, upholding and maintaining and guiding and propelling the universe by His mighty word of power. When He had by offering Himself accomplished our cleansing of sins and riddance of guilt, He sat down at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high,

I simply mention this to show that the scriptures say! That God can do anything....nothing is too difficult for him!
His word also says, Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. And you will be my witnesses, telling people about me everywhere - in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth”

But the Holy Spirit whom is the present working power of God on earth, as Jesus returned to the Glory of Heaven, is sent to indwell into the hearts of every believer.
He as promised is sent to guide us into all Truth, empower us with the Love of God, write the laws of God into our hearts, and provide us with gifts to do the works of the ministry, within the Church.

Our old life before coming to Christ, a life living for self, and bound by things I never really wanted to do but found myself unable to overcome. Like anger, hatred, hopelessness, despair and so many other things, that I truly despise but yet find myself drawn to them, and doomed to live them out. Someone mentioned in another post that they don't believe in sin. But whatever you label it, I can't believe that anyone enjoys or wakes up in the morning and says, I just want to be angry today, I hope I am depressed today so I can share that with others. And to anyone who is honest with themselves, must admit they have areas in their life that they simply wish wasn't there.

The Scriptures say II Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ [that is, grafted in, joined to Him by faith in Him as Savior], he is a new creature [reborn and renewed by the Holy Spirit]; the old things [the previous moral and spiritual condition] have passed away. Behold, new things have come [because spiritual awakening brings a new life].

This is the work (power) of God that transforms us, it is impossible for us to transform ourselves, we need our Creator to do that for us. You see God does command us to live according to his ways, but then he Empowers us to do so, by putting our faith in him, not Self to do so!

I am telling the truth I am not lying God has done that to me and still is working on me I must admit, but he promised that he will complete the work he started in me, and that it is GOD (not me) that works and performs all good things in me according to his Perfect Will.

The only difference between me and someone who rejects God way, is I see and understand how utterly impossible it is for me to change, adn then I totally rely on God to CHANGE ME.

This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ sent into the world to save it, not condemn it.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

For these souls hell is heaven, in this life and in the afterlife, so they are happy in hell and they don't even know they are in hell.

It is my belief that a person's experience in the afterlife can depend on them, meaning how they react to dying, and it can also depend on what kind of person they were when they were still alive. If the person was a jerk in life, then it is more likely that they will also be one after they die. It has been my experience that some spirits don't even realize that they are dead or accept that they are dead. I've found that these spirits are more difficult to crossover.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

There's an interesting verse that says those who believe in the hereafter, believe in the Quran. You see it as people believing in the hereafter due to Quran or Bible.

It can be said those who believe in the unseen journey will be in contact with the holy spiritual guides and leaders on that journey and be accompanied by them.

The Quran helps clarify what and who they are seeing and how they are signs of God. The talk about spiritual lanterns that are missiles against Satanic forces for example.

We've talked in the past about our respective spiritual beliefs, Link, so I respect yours because you've been respectful of mine. I'd like to say that I don't believe what I believe about the afterlife because of the Bible. I believe what I believe based on my years of experiencing supernatural phenomena. To be honest, I disregard what the Bible teaches about the afterlife because of these experiences. So I don't think that the Quran could convince me otherwise.

 

[Little Dragon]

For these souls hell is heaven, in this life and in the afterlife, so they are happy in hell and they don't even know they are in hell.

That's what I read. I can handle that.

 

[Saved by grace 2]

There is a way that seems right unto man.....but leads only to death!

 

[Little Dragon]

Yes Sir, God is all Powerful, the scriptures say nothing is impossible with God,

I appreciate you taking the time to post that response, I was hoping for something more personal, more relatable. Something that could help me understand better. Something that doesn't involve scripture or biblical teaching.