If there is a life after death.....

[Sgt. Pepper]

So why doesn't this apply to the nature of afterlife to those who claim to experience it?

In my opinion and experience, one of the most successful ways to convince a skeptic that there is an afterlife and that the paranormal is real is to have them participate in a legitimate paranormal investigation of a notoriously haunted location (such as the 1886 Crescent Hotel & Spa). Speaking as a veteran paranormal investigator (with sixteen years of experience), I'm a firm believer in "seeing is believing." It is sealed by the skeptic's inability to rationally explain and debunk any poltergeist activity that they've witnessed firsthand, especially if the activity is something that they visually saw and audibly heard, as well as properly documented by authenticated pictures, videos, EVP recordings, spirit box sessions (using The Estes Method), and other ghost-hunting equipment (like the Laser Grid with multiple sensors, like this one; I own one). It's one of my favorite devices in my equipment collection.

The other most effective way I've found to convince a skeptic that the paranormal is real is for them to receive a reading in person from a genuine psychic medium that they can't rationally refute, leaving them so stumped that their curiosity about what they witnessed takes over and they begin to genuinely research and investigate the paranormal. In my case (as I described in my previous post here), I've given readings to many people who didn't believe in the paranormal, and none of them remained skeptical of the paranormal after I revealed specific private information that was only known between them and their deceased loved one(s) (such as the names of their living or deceased relatives, exact dates of key events in their lives, family vacations, certain places they visited or traveled to outside of the country, and specific childhood memories that they have). I've been sharing my personal experiences on this forum for more than a year now. And, while I've shared my experiences, I will not, under any circumstances, debate with anyone about them. As far as I'm concerned, other people can accept or reject what I've said in my posts. It's their decision. Frankly, I couldn't care less if they believe me or not.

 

[rocala]

In my opinion and experience, one of the most successful ways to convince a skeptic that there is an afterlife and that the paranormal is real is to have them participate in a legitimate paranormal investigation of a notoriously haunted location (such as the 1886 Crescent Hotel & Spa). Speaking as a veteran paranormal investigator (with sixteen years of experience), I'm a firm believer in "seeing is believing,"

That is a very good idea. Over the years, I have witnessed numerous discussions between opposing sides, ranging from polite chats to very heated debates. In the main, I would say that those discussions were not so much between believers and non-believers as being between those who have had experiences and those who have not.

 

[Link]

In my opinion and experience, one of the most successful ways to convince a skeptic that there is an afterlife and that the paranormal is real is to have them participate in a legitimate paranormal investigation of a notoriously haunted location (such as the 1886 Crescent Hotel & Spa). Speaking as a veteran paranormal investigator (with sixteen years of experience), I'm a firm believer in "seeing is believing," which is sealed by the skeptic's inability to rationally explain and debunk any poltergeist activity that they've witnessed firsthand, especially if the activity is something that they visually saw and audibly heard, as well as properly documented by authenticated pictures, videos, EVP recordings, spirit box sessions (using The Estes Method), and other ghost-hunting equipment (like the Laser Grid with multiple sensors, like this one; I own one). It's one of my favorite devices in my equipment collection.

The other most effective way I've found to convince a skeptic that the paranormal is real is for them to receive a reading in person from a genuine psychic medium that they can't rationally refute, leaving them so stumped that their curiosity about what they witnessed takes over and they begin to genuinely research and investigate the paranormal. In my case (as I described in my previous post here), I've given readings to many people who didn't believe in the paranormal, and none of them remained skeptical of the paranormal after I revealed specific private information that was only known between them and their deceased loved one(s) (such as the names of their living or deceased relatives, exact dates of key events in their lives, family vacations, certain places they visited or traveled to outside of the country, and specific childhood memories that they have). I've been sharing my personal experiences on this forum for more than a year now. And, while I've shared my experiences, I will not, under any circumstances, debate with anyone about them. As far as I'm concerned, other people can accept or reject what I've said in my posts. It's their decision. Frankly, I couldn't care less if they believe me or not.

Yeah I understand, I'm saying the experience can be seen as subjective like experience of mystics about God. So was asking, why does he trust one as objective and the other as subjective?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

That is a very good idea. Over the years, I have witnessed numerous discussions between opposing sides, ranging from polite chats to very heated debates. In the main, I would say that those discussions were not so much between believers and non-believers as being between those who have had experiences and those who have not.

I've long since resolved not to argue and debate with skeptics. In my opinion, there is no point in arguing and debating with skeptics who have already made up their minds not to believe, no matter what kind of sufficiently validated evidence they personally witness and can't rationally explain or debunk. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to me to argue and debate with them in an attempt to persuade them to believe in anything supernatural or in suspected paranormal phenomena. I've had my fair share of interactions with skeptics (atheists and theists alike), and I've always told them that they can decide for themselves whether to believe in the paranormal or not. I've never tried to persuade them to believe in paranormal phenomena, as I do. I've had plenty of skeptics (atheists and theists) participate in paranormal investigations with me. If one or more became argumentative with me, then I firmly told them that they witnessed what everyone else participating in the investigation had witnessed and could decide for themselves whether to believe or not. I have the same personal boundaries on RF regarding not arguing with and debating others about my spirituality or my beliefs in regard to paranormal phenomena.

 

[Trailblazer]

What about the mystics who testify to experiencing God?

They may well believe that they experienced God, but I do not believe they have, since I don't believe that anyone experiences God.

 

[Little Dragon]

Yeah I understand, I'm saying the experience can be seen as subjective like experience of mystics about God. So was asking, why does he trust one as objective and the other as subjective?

All experiences are subjective.

It's just when it comes to the afterlife. I am going to listen to a ghost or spirit, more than I am a living human. Since I will take it at face value that the dead know what the afterlife involves, what it's nature is.

 

[Bird123]

So you say it is not about putting others down. Should it really be about putting everyone down?
Religions can't "fix you" .. only G-d can do that, if you choose to draw closer.


rotten???
We all continually sin .. but sin comes in many "shapes and sizes".
The important thing, is to ask for forgiveness, and not be proud and arrogant.


Believers do not all think alike, and some are more knowledgeable than others.
It is not a case of putting down others, and thinking you are pure..
..as I say, we are ALL sinners.

WE all have the power to Choose what we deem important. Why do you value the mistakes people make over the goodness in them? Without those mistakes They would not have Discovered the better choices.

So you say it is not about putting others down. Should it really be about putting everyone down? What would happen if you nurtured the goodness in them instead?

God is Unconditional. One does not have to draw closer in order to end up in God's arms.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Link]

All experiences are subjective.

It's just when it comes to the afterlife. I am going to listen to a ghost or spirit, more than I am a living human. Since I will take it at face value that the dead know what the afterlife involves, what it's nature is.

Oh I see what you mean. I think they don't know what lies ahead, just what they experience and that can be subjective.

 

[Little Dragon]

It's their decision. Frankly, I couldn't care less if they believe me or not

I know how you feel.
I've seen UFOs and when I've told people, I really don't care if they react with ridicule or amusement. I know what I have seen. I know my own body too, I know when something is different or unusual. Like the odd marks in my left arm, which is also numbed as well, that appear occasionally, when I awaken, and look exactly like a single hypodermic puncture mark, complete with localized bruising. I know I will get laughed at for saying this. Yet it's true, and my wife has taken photographs of them.

 

[Bird123]

You are dealing with Beliefs, since beliefs are all you have.

I carry no EGO issues about being right. I just believe what I believe, just as you believe what you believe.

Your view is limited by your beliefs.

OK, Question: What would you do?

They find some writings from your messengers with your name on it. It tells you God is ready to ascend you into Heaven. It gives you instructions to go to the Golden Gate bridge and jump off like you are going to fly. From there God will carry you into Heaven. If you do as God asks, it will prove your Great Faith. If you fail to do this, you will fall from God's graces and be distant from God forever.

How strong are those Beliefs? Will you follow the messengers and jump off the bridge? What will you choose to do?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Little Dragon]

Oh I see what you mean. I think they don't know what lies ahead, just what they experience and that can be subjective.

All the same. As subjective opinions go...

 

[Trailblazer]

Your view is limited by your beliefs.

I am not limited by my beliefs since I question what does not make sense to me and I only do what I choose to do.
Do you question your beliefs? It sure doesn't sound like you do.

OK, Question: What would you do?

They find some writings from your messengers with your name on it. It tells you God is ready to ascend you into Heaven. It gives you instructions to go to the Golden Gate bridge and jump off like you are going to fly. From there God will carry you into Heaven. If you do as God asks, it will prove your Great Faith. If you fail to do this, you will fall from God's graces and be distant from God forever.

How strong are those Beliefs? Will you follow the messengers and jump off the bridge? What will you choose to do?

I would not believe that there are any writings of any messengers addressed to me, so I cannot answer that question.
I also do not believe any messenger of God would ever give such instructions.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I know how you feel.
I've seen UFOs and when I've told people, I really don't care if they react with ridicule or amusement. I know what I have seen. I know my own body too, I know when something is different or unusual. Like the odd marks in my left arm, which is also numbed as well, that appear occasionally, when I awaken, and look exactly like a single hypodermic puncture mark, complete with localized bruising. I know I will get laughed at for saying this. Yet it's true, and my wife has taken photographs of them.

I've had two sightings. The first one was witnessed by several people in the same vicinity, and my husband witnessed the second one with me. I don't want to derail the thread by discussing my sightings or what I believe about UFOs, so I'll post a link to what I wrote in another thread. You can read it here.

 

[Little Dragon]

I've had two sightings. The first one was witnessed by several people in the same vicinity, and my husband witnessed the second one with me. I don't want to derail the thread by further discussing my sightings or what I believe about UFOs, so I'll post a link to I wrote in another thread. You can read it here.

I agreed with what you wrote. In another thread I will be happy to go into what I know, from a personal viewpoint, about the subject. Another time.

 

[Bird123]

What is is What is according to you, so it is an ego projection. You totally miss that.

What is is what is for everyone. So often people choose their Beliefs over what actually is. I point to where one can Discover what is. It has nothing to do with control or what I want. I simply place truth for people to see.

I say Math and everything must add up simply because that will show beliefs to be what they actually are. Do you seek Truth or are you happy with mere beliefs? No one's journey has ever been up to me. On the other hand, placing truth along anyone's path is no more than a potential gift. I make no demands at all.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Little Dragon]

I also do not believe any messenger of God would ever give such instructions.

Not unless he/she had a very morbid sense of humour.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I am not limited by my beliefs since I question what does not make sense to me and I only do what I choose to do.
Do you question your beliefs? It sure doesn't sound like you do.

Of all the people I know who are clearly limited by their religious beliefs, you are not one of them.

 

[Bird123]

I know that all I have are beliefs. The difference between me and @Bird123 is that I admit that is all I have.
He denies that is what he has and calls his beliefs knowledge.

I just believe what I believe and it is either true or false. I do not insist that it is true.
I have no need to be right. Beliefs cannot be proven right or wrong.

Are you sure Beliefs can not be proven right or wrong? Have you even tried?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Question 1: Please define "a spiritual being" for me.

Question 2: What objective test will distinguish this "spiritual being" from an imaginary one?

1.A spiritual being has no physical body. On the other hand, a Spiritual being can be trapped in a physical body which will bind them to the physical laws that incorporate that physical body.
2. I suppose the only 100% sure test will be when one no longer has a physical body. On the other hand, one can choose to perceive what one wants to be. The will to limit's one's view is capable at any level.

If one is true to oneself along with the willingness to see what actually is, I find most people imagine very little. How about you?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

What is is what is for everyone. So often people choose their Beliefs over what actually is.

You are obsessed about Beliefs yet that is all you have, since nothing you say is factual.

What is is what exists in reality. People interpret what they see in different ways so they have different opinions about reality.

I point to where one can Discover what is. It has nothing to do with control or what I want. I simply place truth for people to see.

How do you think they are going to Discover what is? What are they going to Discover?

I say Math and everything must add up simply because that will show beliefs to be what they actually are.

What they actually are according to whom?

Do you seek Truth or are you happy with mere beliefs?

Do you seek Truth or are you happy with mere beliefs?